I was wondering if there is a direct bolt in replacement for the 2.8 in an 88 GT?? If not what is the easiest swap out there?? If someone has a web page or info source it would be appreciated...also would it be worth it to swap a Camaro v6??? Thanks in advance--Nathan
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12:46 AM
PFF
System Bot
scrotum_pat Member
Posts: 737 From: Eldridge,Iowa,USA Registered: Feb 2002
Are those motegi MR7's? If they are can you blow up the first pic of your car. Ive been looking for a white fastback with mr7's, but I could only find an angles shot. Thanks.
To answere your question, I believe the 3.4 is a direct bolt on install.
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12:57 AM
White88GT Member
Posts: 656 From: Watauga, texas, usa Registered: Nov 2002
Hey Scrotum, Look at the post that says TONS OF PICS OF MY CAR and there is a big pic of them... They are not MR7's but they look exactly the same! There is a website where you can put different rims on your car but i will have to find it though Late--Nathan
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01:05 AM
scrotum_pat Member
Posts: 737 From: Eldridge,Iowa,USA Registered: Feb 2002
From what I've read as far as direct bolt in replacement wise, the 3.4 is the way to go. I think you have to drill a hole to relocate the starter, but that's it. It's not a huge improvement in power (160hp I think...), but it is more than a 2.8. There seem to be issues with restricted airflow caused by having to use the Fiero intake manifold, but there are several people working on solutions to this problem.
------------------ 87' Fiero GT 5-spd 84' Fiero SE 2m4 4-spd SOLD
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01:46 AM
Standard Member
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
hey White88GT, here's what i've learned about the 3.4, it is easy, you take off the valve covers and intake and put them on the 3.4. then you drill starter holes on the opposite side that the stater is already on. and to the best of my knowledge (and someone will tell me if i'm wrong) you put that back in. so yes it is easy, but the problems are this... the engine is rated at 160HP, i don't know if it really loses any power, but you are putting a much more restrictive air intake on it, causing it to "run out of breath" somewhere around 4500RPM. second, you will use the fiero computer more than likely, and it will run, but it's not really made to run that much bigger of an engine. but their is a guy who can burn you a chip to run it, so the real only problem is the intake. (the Website is http://www.eidnet.org/local/westers_garage/ )
Bottom line is this... if you wanna put something in a little bigger than a 2.8, and want just a little more power, and you want it to be really easy, than the 3.4 is for you... however, if you put this engine in, thinking it will be a lot faster and a very high performance engine stock, you're going to be disappointed. so if you want more performance it can be done with a 3.4, but i'd rather have a 3800 S/C 3.4 DOHC, or a V-8. just my thoughts. hope this helps.
-Fish
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09:21 AM
FieroBUZZ Member
Posts: 3320 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: Feb 2001
hey White88GT, here's what i've learned about the 3.4, it is easy, you take off the valve covers and intake and put them on the 3.4. then you drill starter holes on the opposite side that the stater is already on. and to the best of my knowledge (and someone will tell me if i'm wrong) you put that back in.
Your not wrong, But if it's an automatic trans, you need to trim part of the block where the starter was initially to clear part of the trans. Also if you have A/C, You need to either weld a tapped block onto the engine block or If it's an 88, Rodney has an adapter bracket. (He also has the starter jig for drilling the holes) http://www.rodneydickman.com/n101.html
You also need some other parts: Timing cover and oil pan from the same year Fiero 2.8L (I think 85-86 are the same and 87-88 are the same) An 88 flex-plate (flywheel) The oil tube and oil pressure sensor. If adding an aftermarket cam, you either need the cam sensor plug or cut down the cam sensor itself.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 11-27-2002).]
Since you're losing some of 3.4's power due to the intake and ECM, would it then be comparable to just stroking the 2.8 up to 3.1? No drilling etc. required for that...
Bill
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10:36 AM
I'm Back Member
Posts: 3780 From: Phoenix, Az, USA Registered: Oct 2002
You say easiest, do you mean also cheapest? With a manual trans, the N* is not that difficult if you have about 5k to throw at it. With the automatic a bit more work unless you have about 9k so you can buy Design 1's kit. Often easiest and cheapest go hand-in-hand, but sometimes not. The 3.4 pushrod is basically for someone that wants to rebuild their 2.8 and get a little more out of it. I don't know if it is technically considered a swap, since it is from the same 'family' of engines with the exact same mouting points and all other bolt patterns.
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11:25 AM
Fino Member
Posts: 813 From: St. Johns, MI. USA Registered: Jan 2002
Thanks Guys!! So far it looks like the 3.4 (quad 4??) is the best in terms of easy power but can someone give me the total cost of a completed install, done by themselves?
And Fino.. My pig shed it's wings aboout an hour after I took off and I had to walk over 30 minle to get home....Darn Pig.... Thanks Again All--Nathan
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05:41 PM
Nov 28th, 2002
Fino Member
Posts: 813 From: St. Johns, MI. USA Registered: Jan 2002
If you are 16 years old you might not have a lot of tools and experience with cars (please, I do not mean this as a flame or putdown). You are in grapevine, texas not to far from Dallas, TX. http://www.geocities.com/fastfieros/
Says: Install a 3.4 camaro motor to an existing V6 Fiero automatic. $2800. This does include the 3.4 engine with less than 60K miles. Upgrades are available.
Engines for sale : 1995 3.4 65k miles $650 (drilled for Fiero) 1995 3.4 56k miles $800 (drilled for Fiero)
You might want to talk to him. I can't recommend him because I don't know his work qualities, maybe someone else on the forum does. I think he is on the forum.
If you want SIGNIFICANTLY more power out of your 2.8 and don't want to do a swap, a used turbo is the way to go.
Up until recently, I thougt installing one is a b***h. It's not. I'm getting one installed right now (should be ready this weekend ).
The turbo is out of an early 90's / late 80's (I can't remember but will check) Audi -apparently same as used on 911's.
I didn't know much about it but one of our club members just put one in last year and is installing one on my car. Total cost? $1,750.00 CDN installed (about $1,100 USD). Total power? Estimated in the 200-240 HP. I'll try to get it dynoed one day.
The istall is quite easy and you retain virtually a stock engine look (I even get to keep my AC).
There is a lot of details that I won't go into but the boost is adjustable via a set screw, i.e. for a stock 2.8 about 8 lbs is right.
To prevent knocking, I'm getting a tiny knock computer installed in the trunk with a sensor screwed into the block (existing plug - no drilling). The computer is out of an early 80's Buick (or something - can't remember). A few bracket modifications, high pressure fuel injectors and a good ignition coil and she'll be kicking some serious a$$.
The turbo itself? If you can find one at a local scrap yard it's not expensive. Here at Pick Your Part they are dirt cheap (somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-100 bucks CDN).
I will post a topic on it once it's done. Like I said - can't go wrong for the money - just have to know a few details on what you're doing (or find someone who does), otherwise it's relatively simple.
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10:28 AM
wiccantoy Member
Posts: 3372 From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj Registered: Mar 2002
If you want SIGNIFICANTLY more power out of your 2.8 and don't want to do a swap, a used turbo is the way to go.
Up until recently, I thougt installing one is a b***h. It's not. I'm getting one installed right now (should be ready this weekend ).
The turbo is out of an early 90's / late 80's (I can't remember but will check) Audi -apparently same as used on 911's.
I didn't know much about it but one of our club members just put one in last year and is installing one on my car. Total cost? $1,750.00 CDN installed (about $1,100 USD). Total power? Estimated in the 200-240 HP. I'll try to get it dynoed one day.
The istall is quite easy and you retain virtually a stock engine look (I even get to keep my AC).
There is a lot of details that I won't go into but the boost is adjustable via a set screw, i.e. for a stock 2.8 about 8 lbs is right.
To prevent knocking, I'm getting a tiny knock computer installed in the trunk with a sensor screwed into the block (existing plug - no drilling). The computer is out of an early 80's Buick (or something - can't remember). A few bracket modifications, high pressure fuel injectors and a good ignition coil and she'll be kicking some serious a$$.
The turbo itself? If you can find one at a local scrap yard it's not expensive. Here at Pick Your Part they are dirt cheap (somewhere in the neighborhood of $50-100 bucks CDN).
I will post a topic on it once it's done. Like I said - can't go wrong for the money - just have to know a few details on what you're doing (or find someone who does), otherwise it's relatively simple.
does anyone know of a detailed web page about this swap ?
------------------ go fast or go home or just drive it like you stole it
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10:35 AM
87GTBro Member
Posts: 1223 From: Edinburg,TX,USA Registered: Oct 1999
I'd have to vote for the 3.4 OHV engine. It's only got 20 more HP but more torque and the seat of the pants feel is ALOT different. I highly recommend this swap as a first swap. I promise you'll be please. You really FEEL the torque of the engine. Makes you wanna go racing.........LOL
Phil
------------------ GTDude OVER 25 years GM experience
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12:07 PM
G-Nasty Member
Posts: 2099 From: woodlands,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2001
White88GT: welcome to the white fiero club- Members will hate u because of the sheer beauty of another white fastback...like mine. Try looking at these sites as well www.hi-techdev.com has a V8 cradle. Also http://members.fortunecity.com/bubbajoexx/index.htm & www.v8archie.com If I was to do another swap-I would do the 4.9 caddy. [IMO] Its easier than the LT1 or 3.8. HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE & EAT WELL!!! OUT>
[This message has been edited by G-Nasty (edited 11-28-2002).]
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02:34 PM
White88GT Member
Posts: 656 From: Watauga, texas, usa Registered: Nov 2002
Fino: I already know alot about FastFieros..aka Loyde and he is a great guy!! However I have been trying to get in touch with him recently but haven't been able to... If you read this FastFieros please e-mail me about the christmas party at Wicked88gt@yahoo.com
Voytek: I was considering the turbo setup of Denis Lagura but am also very interested in the one you mentioned so please see if you could get the plans for it!! I appreciate all of your help and only ask one more thing... What is the wieght difference between the 3.4 and the 2.8???
Wiccantoy - I do not have a detailed page on the turbo install, and I don't know if anybody does. See below.
White88GT - I should have the car back within the next 2-5 days. At that time I will try to post some pics here and some more detailed info.
Up until the turbo install, I knew nothing about it. Now I am 'somewhat' educated. The guy installing it for me knows what he is doing because he's also installed one on his Fiero. This setup is not nearly as difficult as some may think. I've read about custom turbo setups made for the Fiero. Not only do they seem VERY difficult, they are also pricey. BTW, the $1750 CDN includes install!!
The setup involves the following components / mods: - turbo kit (Audi) - knock computer / sensor (GM) - boost gauge - high pressure injectors - plumbing - includes a modified y-pipe, a few pieces that come off the Audi, a fitting into the oil pan to drain oil by gravity, hose from turbo to oil pan, wiring from knock computer to sensor to (somewhere - I can't remember but will find out) and one or two custom brackets for support (quite simple, actually).
Recommended: - performance ignition - good spark plug wires - brass points on distributor cap - slightly differnt AC delco plugs (I will get the number for you) - check your engine mounts
To the sceptics - I've seen this turbo on another fiero and the 14 s quarter mile it pulled. This was at 3500 ft elevation (it was actually 5,000 corrected for humidity). I don't think I can go wrong.
Once again, I will post a thread on this within a week and hopefully show you some pics.
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06:56 PM
Fierochic88 Member
Posts: 4987 From: Staunton, VA Registered: May 2001
Does anyone know if the 3.4 longblocks from ARI come pre-drilled for the starter?
The 3.4L longblocks are NOT 3.4L blocks. They are 2.8L bored and stroked for a 3.4L.
IMHO, if you are wanting power (and this is the reason for the swap) an engine build-up and turbo is the better way of going. If you are going to dump in BUTTLOADS of boost, then I would keep 2.8L crank and pistons because you can get them in a forged version (were as the 3.1L you can't unless you want custom stuff).
------------------ 'Course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. -TBK (The Black Knight) '87 GT
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01:20 AM
Fino Member
Posts: 813 From: St. Johns, MI. USA Registered: Jan 2002
Fino: I already know alot about FastFieros..aka Loyde and he is a great guy!! However I have been trying to get in touch with him recently but haven't been able to...
Thanks Again--Nathan
Well......... that was why I went to Twin Lakes. I emailed FastFiero at fastfierosdallas@aol.com on 10/14/02 about trying to buy an engine and got no response.
Ed
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11:05 AM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Though a 3.1 is technically not a "Swap', it probably represent's the biggest bang for your buck and is as easy as a regular rebuild. If one adds an aftermarket cam (Crane 2030)and performs the standard gasket match and porting to the intake and exaust, the HP should approach 160-165. There are no mods necessary to the fuel pressure regulator or injectors as there is with the 3.4. Mine is strong as a tractor up to 3400-3500 RPM. (It continues to pull right on up to red line, just not as impressive) It responds like a cat when I call on it and never bogs or hesitates. I couldn't be happier. The total rebuild including crank, pistons, cam, and machine shop work was under $1100. Definitely worth the effort. Especially if your present motor needs a rebuild. In my case, I would have needed crank, pistons, & cam to put my engine back in shape. Why not buy the 3.1 stuff instead of the 2.8 parts. A no brainer!
Just my two cents, Dave
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11:23 AM
PFF
System Bot
Ambush Member
Posts: 546 From: San Francisco, Ca USA Registered: Aug 2001
Look, I don't KNOW much but I have done a little research. It isn't worth the money to pay someone to place a 3.4 in your car. You not only have to pay for parts, but you have to pay for many hours of labor. If you have the part lying around and you know how to do it yourself...then it is worth doing. If you don't, i would suggest going with some sort of a V-8. Caddy 4.9 is my suggestion. fairly cheap and easy for a mechanic to do. Nothing against Archie and others like em but when you get into the $10,000.00 range for a V-8 you might as well buy a vet or a camaro or a Mustang, you get my point. Then you will have the better brakes and what not.
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11:23 AM
Voytek Member
Posts: 1924 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
but when you get into the $10,000.00 range for a V-8 you might as well buy a vet or a camaro or a Mustang, you get my point. Then you will have the better brakes and what not.
loyde is having a shitload of email address situations i do believe, if i remember correctly his email is fastfierov8@aol.com but let me check in a minute and ill get back to you.....
.... yep thats it fastfierov8@aol.com he has like 5 different address floating around. i guess he needs to figure out what email he is going to use and stick with it.
matthew
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10:10 AM
FieroGT87 Member
Posts: 3195 From: St. Louis, Mo, USA Registered: Jul 2001
Look, I don't KNOW much but I have done a little research... you might as well buy a vet or a camaro or a Mustang, you get my point. Then you will have the better brakes and what not.
Some people just don't get it. If I wanted a Vette or a Stang or a Camaro (which I've own all of them at one time or another) I would have bought one. It's not about the money, it's about owning something unique.
A Fiero with a 250-300HP engine 11.25 brakes, 2600lbs, lowered, 2 seater fibercarbon body, fun as all get out to drive. Now ask why, don't it about having fun building a car yourself to your personal taste. Then showing it off to your friends and say "look what I did" and be proud of it.
Enough said,
Earl R.
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10:49 AM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
Look, I don't KNOW much but I have done a little research. It isn't worth the money to pay someone to place a 3.4 in your car. You not only have to pay for parts, but you have to pay for many hours of labor. If you have the part lying around and you know how to do it yourself...then it is worth doing. If you don't, i would suggest going with some sort of a V-8. Caddy 4.9 is my suggestion. fairly cheap and easy for a mechanic to do. Nothing against Archie and others like em but when you get into the $10,000.00 range for a V-8 you might as well buy a vet or a camaro or a Mustang, you get my point. Then you will have the better brakes and what not.
I had a real long post on this but deleted I won't even comment. 10,000 for a V8 fiero you would have something that tears ass. I see to many people think like this.. just buy a vette or camaro
Some people just don't get it. If I wanted a Vette or a Stang or a Camaro (which I've own all of them at one time or another) I would have bought one. It's not about the money, it's about owning something unique.
A Fiero with a 250-300HP engine 11.25 brakes, 2600lbs, lowered, 2 seater fibercarbon body, fun as all get out to drive. Now ask why, don't it about having fun building a car yourself to your personal taste. Then showing it off to your friends and say "look what I did" and be proud of it.
Enough said,
Earl R.
I have owned my hot rods, drag race cars, Corvettes and even show vettes. In the 60's and 70's there were people that I looked up to:
They made cars that were one and only. Sometimes a person just wants something he made that you can't just buy one at the local dealership. The cost is not an issue, yes you can and will loose money on the project, but who cares. Putting a V8 into a Fiero and having a ricer pull up next to you and hear the sound of your car will make him just sh1t... his... pants.
THATS....PRICELESS.
Ed
[This message has been edited by Fino (edited 11-30-2002).]
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