Between chatting and asking questions to my long-time high school mechanic buddy and an acquintance at a local auto salvage yard that I go to frequently, I have gotten this info about the popular engines that people are swapping into Fieros. The quad 4 and the twin double overhead cam 3.4 V6 are expensive to buy and work on and seem to be prone to numerous breakdowns and failures. The 3800 V6 appears to be the most reliable and cheapest to buy. I know where two low mileage, late model 3800 can be found for about $350 (not the supercharged versions). These engines appear to hold up amazingly well and are really reliable. Just thought I'd pass this info along to those who may be considering a swap sometime in the future.

Had thought about putting my old "nailhead" 215 Buick into something,maybe I should give it a try in my Fiero?
If it isn't enough,I could put a turbo on it!
Two VW Rabbit injection systems might wake it up,along with a 270DEG cam.
Would be the same as a Buick V6,just longer,and lighter.It is pretty much the same size as a smallblock,actually.
I know someone who runs a large business rebuilding motors,I ask him what engines he's never,or rarely seen,and those are the good ones.Actually tonight was shop night out,so I'll have to ask next week.

I think it would be a hoot to find a 3.8 SFI Turbo from a Buick Grand National and pop it in a Fiero. What fun that would be.

Before I got married and the money dried up (ha), I did some research into 3800 and Quad-4 swaps for my 88 Coupe. I spoke to Ed Parks, the Cutters at ACE, and several local mechanics. I would have talked to Fiero Doc too, but my project got put on indefinite hold. Here were my conclusions:

The 3800 is indeed the best swap for automatic Fieros. Buy the 3800 with its 4-sp auto and swap them in together and you'll have a fast and reliable car. But you'll have to make your own flywheel to use the 3800 with a 5-speed.

The Quad-4 is a good swap for road-racey types. It loves to rev and it improves handling because it's about 100 lbs lighter than the Iron Duke. But the early Quad-4's tended to blow head gaskets, so you should buy as late a model engine as possible and consider replacing the head gasket before installation. Because of low torque, the Quad-4 is happiest with a 5-speed.

I wonder if the '94-present updated Quad-4 (2.4 Twin Cam) would be a good swap? It only makes 150 hp, but it makes a lot more torque than the original Quad-4. Plus I've heard all the bugs from the original Quad-4 are fixed with the 2.4. But it's an OBD-II engine - what kind of problems would that cause? Hmm...sounds like a good thread topic.

I'm sure you all have seen cartoons where some guy has a little angel sitting on one shoulder trying to talk the guy into being good and a little devil on the other shoulder trying to talk the guy into doing something wicked. Well, ever since my 87 SE 4 cylinder toasted its engine, that's been going on with me.

The little fellow with the halo whispers into one ear, "Put another 2.5 motor into your Fiero, it's economical on gas and reliable. That car is an everyday driver and a commuter vehicle. Swapping a different engine into it will be a lot of work and money"

The little dude with the horns and pointed tail says, "Don't listen to that stupid wimp, a 2.5 ain't no fun. Slip a 3800 V6 with a 4 speed overdrive automatic into that puppy. Plenty of passing power, gas mileage's not bad, pretty girls will love to ride in it and your friends will dig it."

What should I do? I can get a real good, low mileage 3800 motor cheaper than a 2.5, but of course like the angel says, the conversion kit is expensive and it will be more work. I already have a V8 Fiero, so I don't really need another fast Fiero. Does anyone know what kind of gas mileage those 3800's get? Is there a cheaper and/or better kit available than the ACE conversion?

I might just leave the decision up to you guys. How many people vote for me putting another 2.5 back in? How many people vote for swapping a 3800 V6 into the car? Let's hear from all you angels and devils.

3800's are supposed to get in the 30's for mileage

Batboy- I happen to believe with your little horned friend. Bigger is better but not the 3800 V6. You should throw in the legendary 440 Hemi with a nice little "SIX PACK", so it has plenty to drink. You would have tru one of a kind Fiero. How about that, food for thought

A Chrysler engine in a GM car? ARE YOU SICK? How about a GM Performance 502 crate motor topped off with either a Holley Dominator or MPFI? It would probably be a lot cheaper than that Hemi, too. I recently saw a 426 Hemi advertised for $7,500. Whewwwee!

That little devil has been talking to me, too, batboy. My 87's 2.5L has a knocking rod and I keep thinking that as long as I have the thing apart, I might as well do something fiendish like swap in a bigger, more powerful motor. The V8 conversion really intrigues me. I could possibly get an entire 91 Pontiac Grand Am parts cars with a running Quad 4 pretty cheap. I would absolutely love to swap in something like the 2.4L Quad 4/4 speed auto out of my wife's 96 Sunfire. I'm sure it would really scoot in a lighter Fiero. But alas, the question was answered for me when a really cool forum member, Chris, aka SCCA FIERO, offered to give me a good running 88 2.5L for free. He also even tossed in a few interior pieces I needed for free as well. I tell you guys, this guy and his friend are true Fiero enthusiasts dedicated to keeping these cars on the road. So, this car will be retaining the 4 cyl motor and used as a commuter and for my 16yo daughter to use. I'll learn the workings of Fieros with this one and maybe buy a later fastback GT to go hog wild on. Just the other day I happened to see a nice 87 with a for sale sign in the window for $3000...

I've never heard of a 440 hemi. I've heard of a 426 hemi and I've heard of a 440 big block, some of which did have a 6 pack option. I'm with Boomer, Mopar...no car. If I really wanted to go hog wild, I'd swap a Chevy big block in place of the small block in my V8 batmobile, but I won't. I already have a big block car, a 68 SS 396 Camaro. Even my devil agrees, I can't have two V8 Fieros. One of them must be a daily driver. I was just at the ACE web site drooling over their 3800 conversions. They claimed a stock 3800 in a Fiero could make up to 35 mpg on the highway. That's about the best my 2.5 could do. Phil mentioned that they get good mileage too. My angel is worried and don't know what to say now except "The conversion cost too much and it is a lot of work." The devil is smiling. Keep voting folks, this isn't over yet.

A wedge,huh?
Maybe a pair of 230HP,two stroke outboard motors,V6s,couldn't be too much bigger than a smallblock.
Would sound pretty neat,and would satisfy that little red guy,might even scare him into remission.
How about finding a wreck of Chevy origin with performance,60DEG motor of some kind?

Now the angel has the advantage and the devil's worried. I had a bunch of bills roll in during the past two days that need to be paid. Since the V6 engine swap would be at least three times more expensive then the 2.5 replacement and I need my everyday car back soon and I don't have a lot of cash right now... well, it don't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. **sigh** My little red horny friend is desperately trying to make a compromise with the halo wearing dude right now. Put a 2.5 back in the 87 SE right now and then buy another Fiero with a V6 and 5 speed, like maybe a cool 88 Formula, later on when "we" can afford it. That way I'd have an economical 4 cylinder daily commuter car, a sporty fun to drive V6 Fiero, and an awesome muscular V8 batmobile. Hmmmm, I'm being to really like this plan.

if your cash tight.... the 2.5 is ultimatly cheaper.

Call kickhill (www.kickhill.com) and talk to them about v6 upgrades. They seem to have a decent reputation for the stuff they sell, and the prices aren't to bad.

Sorry that was a typo I meant a 426, and yes they are expensive but there are a couple of them in a junkyard by my friend house. There only $1500 or $1800. I thought that was a cheap price for a Hemi. BN Boomer I'm not sick at all, I just threw out that option because I saw the add for the engines. Didn't mean to offend any of ya SSSSOOOORRRRRRRRYYYY!!!!

Well, maybe I can offend someone here.

I've been following this forum almost from when Cliff started it. I have to admit that I have never really considered turning my 2.5L ‘87 Fiero into a "muscle car". I enjoy driving my Fiero as it is. It's a real treat having a car that is economical on gas for the first time in 25 years.

However, I do have a ‘78 Z28 Camaro rotting away in the backyard with one heck of a 350 mated to a Borg Warner 4 speed just sitting there. All you guys talking about transplanting engines have started to get me thinking.

I have NO desire to put this engine in my Fiero, but there is another relatively small GM vehicle that this engine and transmission should just drop into with NO major modifications. What car is that? Glad you asked. There are versions made by Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile, but they are all variations of the Chevrolet Monza. I believe they were built from ‘75 to ‘80.

Here's a picture of a radical conversion. I don't have anything like this in mind, but it gives you some idea of what a Monza can look like. Not as nice as a Fiero, but still...

I know, I know, this is a Fiero forum, but I think I've been around here long enough to get away with asking a question or two about a project like this. Do any of you knowledgeable guys have any opinion on the idea of putting a high performance 350 into a Monza. Good idea, bad idea?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-31-2000).]

Patrick, actually the factory offered a V8 Monza for a limited time, so it's not as radical of an idea as you may think. They were/are a light weight vehicle and fast. I had a chance to buy a V8 Monza once, but ended up buying my first Fiero instead. Spark plugs were a ***** to replace though. I say go for it, but keep your Fiero too.

I have never thought the Monza was a terribly attractive car, but that one looks like fun. At least its not a Maverick!

batboy, the main reason why I thought this would be a worthwhile project is because I was aware that the Monza had been offered with a V8 from the factory. When I used the term "radical conversion", it was in reference to the pictured Monza with a blower and narrowed rear axle, etc.

Of course I'd keep my Fiero.:)

DJRice, bite your tongue! We DON'T talk about Ford products here.:)

DXR_Will, you didn't offend me, I knew what you meant, I was just teasing you.

Patrick, yep that Monza in the photo sure is pretty and radical. For a while, there were a lot of winning Monzas on the drag-strips. I bet you could pick up a nice Monza fairly cheap, especially if you would swallow that Canadian pride and cross the border into the States (haha).

Having a die-hard Chevy hot rodder for an uncle,I've seen many combos over the years,and one of them was a V8 Vega with a full cage,330cube,9,000rpm smallblock(circletrack racemotor)with a four speed.Was a fun car for a few years until the rear end dramatically blew at the top of third gear one day.Looked stock except for that tunnel ram.
Looked at one to buy once,found that if you don't put a cage in,they usually separate some panels on the backseat floor behind the driver,or crack the windshield,with any kind of performance motor,also no fun to change spark plugs in;have to unbolt a motor mount and jack up a bit.Always prefered the softer lines of the Vega over the Monza myself.Monza used a Vega rear end,which will haunt you unless you use smaller tires,and a spool while under radical smallblock power.

Hi low, (been wanting to say that for awhile)

Your comments are interesting.

When you consider the nightmare that people have to endure to put a V8 in a Fiero, it's ironic that someone at THIS forum would mention that it is "no fun" to change spark plugs in a V8 Monza!:) Really, how often in this day of electronic ignition do we hafta change our plugs?:)

I always thought the lines of the Monza were softer!

The Vega rear end sounds pretty scary. What is it you mean by a "spool"?

(lowCG, I hope you don't mind me teasing you a bit. I appreciate your comments.)

A rear end spool is what racers use. It replaces the center internal carrier that contains the spyder gears and the ring gear and locks the axles together like a super posi-traction. I don't recommend this for street use though, because you need some slippage when you drive around curves or turn a sharp corner. For street use, I'd find a stronger rear end that will fit under the Monza and swap that in. I don't remember if they use leaf springs or coil springs. If they have leaf springs, an early Camaro rear end probably would work.

Those cars used a long torque arm,coil springs,just like the latest Camaro/Firebird.
Yeah,I guess if you used a more-normal camshaft,and no tunnel ram you might get away with average spark plug maintenance.
Yeah,that's why I have stuck to changing primarily suspension for my driving enjoyment,less fussy than motor/tuning modifications it seems,might be changing that soon,however.
That '63,Nova wagon was the worst for plugs,used a ratcheting,box wrench.

Has anyone done a METRO 3 cyld 1.0 conversion to a fiero?LOL my metro S**ks on hp.Wasnt GM supposed to make a HO 3.4 with aluminum heads and 4 valves per cylinder?Or drop in the corvettes 90-92 one of those years the 4 valve v-8 engine that came in the corvette those are supoosed to be awesome !

Well, after reading what you fellas have to say, I'm beginning to realize that it's NOT simply an easy matter of dropping in a motor and a transmission. I've also gotten some feedback from a Z28 forum at:

http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum13/HTML/000540.html

It seems to me like the rear end is the biggest headache. I'll have to evaluate all that I'm finding out and decide whether it's worth the hassle.

I'm getting too old to be lying under disassembled cars.:)

I went to that z-28 forum- I hope we never get that bad over here in the fiero side of the world. Some of the crap that they are talking about is pretty far off the wall. Long Live The Fiero Forum! Thanks Cliff for giving us such a great place to visit.

???????????

Geez, I don't know what the heck you stumbled across there to say that.

All you have to do is to look at the number of posts I've made at this forum compared to the ones that I've made there to know that I spend a heck of a lot more time here. I really enjoy this forum. But is the other one THAT bad?

Maybe you just don't like Z28 Camaros?

No, I had an 84 z-28 with the 5.0 HO and 3.73 gears- the "towing package"- heavy duty trans cooler and better shifting 700 r4. It was a good car, one of my favorites of the umpteen that I have had. I also had a 73 with the RS split bumper front end, a hi-po 327 with a four speed, and later a five speed. I am glad that I lived through having those things because I drove 'em like a mad man. I hate to think how fast that 73 would have run with the 5 speed. The speedo gave up at 120 and it was only turning 3000 rpms- it would have gone faster I think.
I did not mean much disrespect toward the camaro camp, but the stuff I saw was worse than that school bus racing the fiero post, and it was meant to be taken with a light heart but they were serious.

Some of those Camaro guys must be half-baked to do all that crap.I guess it will take a bad crash to shut some of them up.I just hope they hurt themselves and not inocent people!!

My favorite was the "death Pact" made by two young lovers in around '79; they had parents that didn't agree with their relationship,so they ran the Camaro into a brick wall at 90 so they could be together forever.
Rock on!

Cooter, your criticism of the Z28 Camaro forum is rather bogus when one considers that you're referring to ONE part of it, Kill Stories.

I agree, a lot of the guys who post in that section are complete retards. I've never even looked in that particular section before until you brought it up. Don't paint the whole Z28 forum with the same brush based on that crap.

The only section I've ever investigated at that site is the 60's & 70's Tech Talk. Old guys like me enjoy the older cars.:)

those camaro guys arn't all bad. did any one see the link about the lawnmower kill? its on 95 Civic SI (no race). checkit out, it hilarious. about the monza, no offense but it looks kinda ugly. the front end looks just like a older mustang (somewhere in the early 80s) an the back looks kinda like a pacer. i just don't like it but if you wanna drop a 350 in it go for it. it would definatly be one of the few on the road.