Bought a 1986 GT Fastback that has a flat black paint over it(looks like it might be house latex). The reason I think it might be latex is that it is a "thick" coat. The paint underneath is the GOLD that Pontiac did and I know it is prone to fading but this 'cure' is worse than the problem IMHO. If I scratch it gently with my fingernail it will flake off, as a last resort I might be able to pressure wash it off, just don't know. Is there a way to find out the kind of paint this is so I can remove it without damaging the paint underneath? Any chemicals I can put on it that will give me a hint as to what kind of paint this is?

You can take it off with a gentle finger nail scratch? I'd pressure wash it like you said to start with. Either way you can't use chemicals without damaging the gold layer and that paint has to come off, otherwise it will just flake off over time.

house paints are latex based and as such have a certain amount of elasticity. If you can peel off a large enough flake - try seeing if you can strectch it. If it stretches, there are two possibilities 1) it is a flat car paint that has a lot of elastomers -- typically used for the lower side panels to prevent stone chipping (however, this paint usually has a texture to it) or 2) it is house paint. If is doesn't stretch at all, then it is more likely to be a flat black primer or flat black auto or spray can paint.

Ive stripped cars at a coin car wash before. Soon as you get it started, put the nozzle right on it and go in strokes like painting it. It might just all peel right off. If not, you prob will have to soda blast it. If its latex, it would take forever to sand off. Ill take a guess that above is right and its simple spray can flat black. You can wash most of that off with rags and lacquer thinner. Thinner likely wont touch latex.

It is not stretchy.

I was looking at a soda blaster at Harbor Freight a couple of weeks and wondering what it could be used for. But yes, either way this stuff has got to come off. The body panels are in very good condition. The motor is de-stroked, with a mild cam upgrade and an Ocelot exhaust system. When you hear it, this is a car that deserves to be red. OR.................if the paint is really good, then maybe the black has preserved it.

BTW Roger, you have extensive experience with paint and such. Do you use soda blasting? How much media do you think I would need to take off this semi-loose black topcoat? What are the caveats and things to look out for using soda vs the old fashion way of doing it by hand or a sander? It would seem that if I am doing the door jambs I would need to mask off the interior

[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 04-11-2013).]

I think the pressure washer will have the best chance at removing most of it it with the minimal amount of collatoral damage. With that said it certainly isn't a gaurentee, you almost certainly will get some damage.

My guess is that it's a DIY "rust paint" paint-job, either rolled on or spray bombed. Been there, done that with an old Suzuki Sidekick. If it was professionally done I would hope you couldn't flake it off with your finger nail.

Straying from the subject a little, have you met any of the local Bat City Fiero crew?
A few of us usually meet up at Cabelas in Buda every Saturday evening for the cruise-in.
This weekend though there is a Fiero event in San Antonio.
Mike

You will eat thru hundreds of dollars worth of DA sanding disks. I would say maybe 4 or more 50# bags of blasting soda if you do it yourself. I use a small handheld one with sand to do small rust area repairs. I send them to a local blaster for the body jobs. Soda dont hurt rubber or glass and most plastic parts...everything else does do some damage. I would try the car wash first. Ive stripped whole cars for $10-$15 worth of quarters. Just a few sheets of sandpaper does the finishing detail. I did one Taurus from customer drop off in the morning, stripping in next door car wash, touch up sanding, sealing and repainting it before the end of the day. Turned out looking brand new.

OK, I think I have my solution. Tell me what you think. I am planning on taking the first black layer off with Klean-Strip Aircraft Fiberglass Paint remover on the whole car. One application will take the black off and the clear coat. This will take me down to the color layer which is the metalic gold. The front and back urethane 'bumpers' will then be stripped using Star 10 paint stripper (out of Muskegon, Michigan). The owner said he personally has done a number of Corvettes (even his own)with his product, but it is only available in quarts here in Austin at a "Woodcraft" store @ $25.00 quart. (He recommended doing about 1 sq ft at a time with it being left on a max of 5 minute intervals so the urethane does not swell.

When I get the car down to the color coat I will then do the soda blasting to get a smooth finish.

The soda blasting part.

I have a few options here.
#1. is to rent a commercial blaster for the weekend($400) but it is 150 miles away. It is a soda & high pressure water system. http://www.sodablastsystems...5-Flex-SodaBlast.pdf
#2. is to purchase a blue soda system that is sold on Amazon and Harbor Freight for ~ $130. http://www.amazon.com/GudCr...eywords=soda+blaster
#3. is to purchase the blue soda system and rent a high pressure washer and rig them together to keep the dust down because I hear that using soda alone can cause white dust problems. I live in a residential neighborhood. Is this true about the dust problem? I assume it is.
#4. is to just water blast once I get down to the color coat.

This coming Wednesday I will be acquiring 2 compressors that are capable of 8.5cfm @ 40psi for about $150 each so I think I have enough air especially if I "T" the 2 compressors for the soda.

My goal is to get a primer ready finish on the body with the least amount of work, time, and expense.

Is my thinking and logic correct here? Am I missing anything?

With a Fiero, you have the option of doing all that, or buying a new panel for $30. Chemical strippers seem to leave residue that ruins the next paint job, so why not just toss the panels?

I am doing the whole car not just a single panel. Also I have another car waiting to be stripped also because of a bad paint job; it looks good from a distance, but up close there is orange peel and runs. Where do you get NEW panels for $30.00, certainly not the Fiero Store. Most of theirs are much higher.

How much money do you think you will have in EACH panel by the time you are done with the stripping and sanding? Sorry, there are no more NEW panels, but there are some in a lot better shape than what you are thinking of trying to save, and you may not be successful. Perhaps this is a teaching exercise, and in that case, go right ahead.......you will learn a lot.

I'd soda blast it, check out walnut shells as the media, wont hurt glass, plastic or rubber. that means ZERO masking just blast the whole car.

It will take about 2 gallons of paint stripper if I use Star 10 ($160) OR 4 gallons of Klean-Strip @ $25/gal ($100)+ about 3 bags of Soda($120). So anywhere between $220 to $280. The Star 10 is much faster and goes directly to the 2nd layer. I tried them both this afternoon. The Klean-Strip Fiberglas paint remover took 3-4 times as long. Star 10 is amazing stuff but pricey. However it is also very environmentally friendly with no toxic fumes. I figure that I can get the stripping done in 8-10 hours if I use the Star 10. The owner of the Star 10 company said he did his Corvette in 6 hours. If there is a Woodcraft store or any other store that caries it near you go get a quart of this stuff and see for yourself how it works.....Amazing!!! It cost 3 times more but the ease of use and the time saving is worth it.

This weekend I also plan on trying a pressure washer to strip the paint so I will have a good feel for all of the options available to me. before I commit to one.

The blaster you are talking about. Is it the red one(sand & other types of media) or the blue one (soda only). I hear that the walnut shells can play havoc because of the natural oil in the shells. I guess there is also Pecan shell media. Renting the sodablaster will cost about $500 plus the cost of the Soda for the weekend.

Yes I am planning on this being a 'learning experience' of sorts. I did strip a Lotus Europa down to the gel coat a number of years back. It was all done by stripper & sanding. My first time, and the final finish came out better than the factory. All the panels I have seen for sale say that they may need some work done on them. Let's not forget I have 2 cars I am getting back on the road and 1 that I am using for parts. I already have body part choices.

Car #1 a 87 GT 6Cyl, Automatic - Parts car only, blue, all panels are good.

Car #2 a 86 GT 6Cyl, 4 speed, 91,xxx miles on the engine with a mild cam upgrade, cold air intake, headers, true short throw, racing seat on driver side, good body, w/flat black paint(that would needs to be stripped off - Priority ONE to get done.

Car #3 a 86 SE 6Cyl, Automatic painted glossy black, but has some orange peel and bleeding if you look close enough

With these choices there is no need to go out and purchase panels. The panels on car #1 has the original paint so I can always use those if need be. However, they are going to the stripped also.

Have it blasted with shells or soda..and its done the next day. I NEVER recommend chemical stripper on any fiberglass or plastic car body. It will give you more grief than you already have. For some examples...if you leave just a speck of it on the body, it comes right back thru the primer and paint. You have to clean it like a surgical room. IF there are any stress cracks, pinholes (you cant even see) or soft spots, the stripper will wick its way inside the fibers. You will never get them out and panel must be replaced. I see a lot of Fieros with these 'soft' spots around the sunroof opening. I recently told someone that had that problem to replace his roof section. Sure some people have said they can do it, but some people can fly to the moon too. You might try finding another Fiero thats blown up with a decent body to use for the parts.

8 cfm is not enough compressor to even paint the car with and it wont run a DA sander for more that a few minutes unless you have a 500 gal tank.

When buying a Fiero, one of the most important thing to consider is its paint and what it takes to redo it. In most cases a paint job is the most expensive thing you will ever have done to it. Ive often put $4000 paint jobs on a car that cost $1000. You can even buy a brand new crate engine for $1500.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: When buying a Fiero, one of the most important thing to consider is its paint and what it takes to redo it. In most cases a paint job is the most expensive thing you will ever have done to it. Ive often put $4000 paint jobs on a car that cost $1000. You can even buy a brand new crate engine for $1500.

Very true, many times paint costs more than the purchase price. Sometimes more than you can sell the car for after its painted.

The other side is someone repaints a car quick to sell it, you buy it thinking the paint is all nice, and it falls off in a few months.

Try stripping it with a razor blade. Hold it as flat as possible & at a slight angle. I usually clamp a small visegrip pliers to the blade to help prevent it catching & cutting my fingers. With that a little pressure to bend the blade so that it's flat to the surface usually works well. I've stripped quite a few cars this way (the ones with a cheap paintjob not properly prepped).
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

I agree with The Driver. I removed the clear base and primer off the hood of my 88 project with a razor blade scraper. On the rear deck lid, I was able to remove the clear and get down to the base which is bonded fine onto the original silver. Razor blade scraper- worth a try.

I also agree with the razor blade idea if the paint is peeling. Ive stripped many cars this way. I use it in a flat scraper and do it just like shaving. Be careful not to nick the blade or it stops working. It wont always work. If the paint has any grip, you will just end up digging divots in the body. For whatever reason, ones ive stripped like this always wont strip off the edges of the panels. I just run a DA along the edges. Like I said too, ive stripped quite a few cars down to factory primer at a coin op car wash and a handfull of quarters.

Is it that Plastidip stuff?? Grab a corner and try peeling it off. That stuff has become very popular in the last little while. People have painted their entire vehicles with it because it is a self leveling paint and looks ok when you are done. It is usually 5 or 6 coats thick, too. If it is Plastidip it should peel right off.

On closer inspection, it appears to be peeling only where the clear coat is loose. So I have the original paint, clear coat and then this flat black layer to cut through. I tried the car wash on a section with out any success. BTW, was the paint on the back hood layered on thicker than on the rest of the Fiero because of the heat that would be associated with that panel?

This is one of the 2 cars I do plan on refinishing, fixing and reselling. While I do not want to sell a piece of junk I need to balance the amount of work I put into it versus what I think it will reasonably sell for. I am planning on selling these and getting a 1988 GT that is in very good condition and also getting a 4Cyl, 5 Speed for a daily driver. The latter seems to be harder to find than 6CYL automatic models.

SIDENOTE: I saw a 1984 Honda CRX yesterday. Now I want one of those too!!! Just reading up on them they were also amazing little cars.

[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 04-21-2013).]

OK, I went out a found a dryer today. It was a Hankison model rated for up to 35 CFM. I have also been able to purchase 2 - 5HP(true horsepower), 110/230, 25 Gallon tank compressors(8.5CFM @ 40PSI each). Combined they should give me enough clean dry air power I need for blasting and painting. Total cost of these three units were $600. I just need to plumb it up, install appropriate breakers(one for each unit), and convert one of the compressors to 230W. New, the Hankison units with the same ratings are $1200 so I figured I got a great deal. Included in the price is 100ft of 3/8" hose. I ordered the soda blaster, the monkey suit, respirator, high pressure water wand(going to rig up my own setup to keep the soda powder at a minimum so my neighbors don't complain about the white powder on their property). I am also going to try out a gravity fed blaster with walnut shells prior to setting up the soda blaster. If the shells don't do it, then I have the soda blaster ready to go. Everything should be in by Wednesday and hopefully setup by the weekend so next week this time I can report on my progress.

I am planning on having the setup look like this, the compressors, the oil/water separator canister, Hankison air dryer, regulators for each hose, air tools.

BTW, I think I found the type of paint that is on the car. I found a half used can of aerosol interior/exterior flat black paint from Walmart.

That's nowhere near enough air. Even at 100% duty cycle that's only 17 scfm @ only 40 psi. What are they rated at at 90 psi? 4ish??

You'll end up renting a tow behind compressor before your done.

Of the HVLP guns I am looking at, one requires 12CFM @ 40 psi, and the other 12 CFM @ 43 psi. The compressors have true 5HP motors, not peak 5HP motors. They are American made units from a few years ago, one is a DeVilbiss and the other is a Sanborn, not the cheap foreign made units that are most easily available today. The CFM at 90psi is around 7 on both of these units. I figure I will know what they can actually do when the soda blaster is hooked up to it and again with the primer. If worse comes to worse I will get 60 Gallon Campbell Hausfeld from Tractor Supply($530 store-to-door) which is rated at 11.5CFM @ 40psi & 10.2CFM @ 90psi. They come with 3HP motors which I would switch with one of the 5HP 230 watt motors I have. I would then sell one of the portable units. I really hate renting because at the end of the day all you have is a receipt. I painted my Lotus Europa back in the late 70's with a single 60 gallon tank and a regular paint gun, nobody could tell it was a home done job when I finished with it.(garage painted, no heat lamps, during the Michigan summer)

However, I think the two smaller compressors will do fine. I will also be using 3/8" hose rather than 1/4" hose but we will only know after everything is hooked up and in use.

I got these smaller compressors and the dryer basically because people do not know how to advertise things on craigslist. The air dryer was a sidenote to a 120 gallon oilless 5HP 3 phase compressor, you had to read the whole thing to find out it was also available. The compressors were listed with the gallon size and PSI ratings only. not even pics. So most people passed them by. One of the compressors was just in a list with a bunch of other stuff so if you are only looking in the title you would not find it. The less traffic one gets the more he is willing to deal. I called a day late on a 60Gallon compressor with a dryer that was listed for $300, but it was out of my immediate area and I had to do a search in that town specifically to find it. WIN SOME, LOSE SOME!

I found an interesting article/pdf/ebook on blasting. It gave info on size of hose, length, etc. Long story short--keep length as short as possible and as much air as you can find. You are pushing solids through a tube that you want to collide with as much force as possible to knock attached/stuck solids out of their place.It can be done with less but it will be at the cost of time and probably the use of more media.

[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 04-23-2013).]

Just my luck!!! Someone has posted a basically new Chicago Pneumatic 60 gallon compressor for $500 that has 16CFM @ 40Psi and 15CFM @ 90Psi. It will probably be gone by the time I get more disposable funds.