Okay first off I would just like to say how glad I am to find a forum full of Fiero enthusiast!

With that I have a problem I was hoping you guys could help me with as I am still a bit of a noob with this car and I've tried everything I can think of to fix it..

First it does seem to idle a little high around 1000 when warm and from what i've found online and posts in here it should be around 750? It is the 2.8 v6 4 speed.

It runs right around 220 degrees most of the time (with a 160 degree tstat that was installed by previous owner) if I put a 180 in it, it runs at 230-240 city or high way..
The exhaust fumes are clean and it doesn't smoke. I found the driver side coolant line was crushed and I cut out the bad section and replaced it with radiator hose for now (it's triple clamped on both sides) I also replaced the heater core and I tried every burping method I could find online even the ogres cave fill and burp. it looks like the water pump was replaced by previous owner but I'm unsure, the people i got it from had it for about 6 months and didnt drive it because the gears were too tight (just some wd40 on the linkages and its smooth as butter) I also replaced all the belts and the temp sensor and the fan switch. The car still runs around 230-240 with the 180 stat so i put the 160 back in to keep it between 200-220 degrees until I can get this figured out.

One this I found weird is, I tried one burp method- jacking the back end up and taking out the tstat and leaving the cap off and running it. Someone said I would be able to see it bubbling and just to shut it off when coolant starting coming out of the housing and then fill it back up.. but with the car cold if i try to run it with the cap off anifreeze goes everywhere! just thought I should mention that incase that signifies a blockage as im not sure if thats normal or not..

Thanks in advance for any replies this thing is driving me crazy..


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Kenn

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-15-2012).]

You need to verify the accuracy of your gauge. The way I do it is to run WinALDL to see what the ecm temp sensor is reading. Those gauges took a beating for many years because of the bad hookup in the start mod.
Also what is the condition of your radiator? Does it flow good?
You mentioned that the PO changed the water pump. Hope they didn't go for one of the plastic impeller ones. They don't work very well on the Fiero due to the long distances that the coolant has to flow .

edit: Get some real lube for your shifter. WD-40 evaporates and is not really a lubricant.

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 07-15-2012).]

I'll have to get the cable and software when I get the extra cash!

The radiator looks like its in good shape on the outside.. No dents in the fins or anything like that. I'm not sure how to check the flow though. I can tell you the pipe on the drivers side gets hot and the pipe on the passenger side gets hot but not as hot. And yeah I read about those plastic impellers and I hope that they didn't put that one in it..

high idle could be a vacuum leak. start threre.

running a little warm?very possible it is the gauge/sender/wiring. Another thing to check - look at the coolant tubes, one could be crushed. Does the fan kick on? If you turn on the A/C does the temps fall? let us know what you find.

It did have a crushed tube and I repaired it. Burped afterwards and the temp will fall with the fan running if i have the 160 stat in it (it will go down to about 200 with the fan on parked).. if I have the 180 stat in i have to have the fan running non stop to keep it at 230.

Edit: I have checked it for vacuum leaks to no avail.. I am planning on doing the mod to the temp guage in the near future.

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-15-2012).]

If I remember right the idle speed is supposed to be in the 950 +/-50 range anyway. I wouldn't worry about 1k. That much could be in the tach accuracy. There again WinALDL would be a help.

Software is here: http://winaldl.joby.se/

Cable may still be available from Dodgerunner on here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...4/HTML/041052-6.html

Ok thanks a lot 2farnorth! I'll download the software and get that cable asap!

If you guys keep asking me questions we can bounce ideas and stuff! I can post some videos of stuff if you guys need to see. I'll be as responsive as I can and am open to any ideas! I just want to get this thing right.. I'm scared to put a stock tstat in it and I know its not good to run a 160 cause of the ecm but i don't really have a choice atm.

Thanks for the replies!

Very first thing to do is a reality check to see if you really have a problem. Find a way to measure the real temperature you really have.

quote Originally posted by trotterlg: Very first thing to do is a reality check to see if you really have a problem. Find a way to measure the real temperature you really have.

What I do is install a mechanical temp gauge in and run it a couple days and compare it to the dash gauge.

I am going through some same issues on my 88 2.5 duke. I temperarilly installed a mechanical gauge today.
I use a cheap mechanical temperature gauge. You can get one like the link posted in a cheaper version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New...em1e6fb22eef&vxp=mtr


Good luck with your diagnosis.

I found mine to be 15-20 degrees off from the in dash to the manual gauge.

Steve

Many parts stores have code readers that you can borrow to read the temp sender and rpms also.
You might also check the timing is set correctly. Someone might have set it without jumping the AB.

I'm going to get the cables to read the Ecm temp sensor. also would a laser thermometer pointed at the Tstat housing work? even if the Guage is off -if I use the 180 tstat the gauge reads 240 with the fan on non stop. the engine bay temp is extreme the back window is burning hot and on the highway it throws the check engine light. but after shutting it off and cooling down the light is gone. I will check the temps and get back to you but I'm positive there is a problem. thanks!

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Kenn07: I tried ... taking out the tstat and leaving the cap off and running it. Someone said I would be able to see it bubbling and just to shut it off when coolant starting coming out of the housing and then fill it back up.. but with the car cold if i try to run it with the cap off anifreeze goes everywhere!

That is normal. To burp the system you should: 1) remove the thermostat, 2) add coolant to the top of the thermostat housing, 3) replace the cap, and 4) run the engine for about 10 seconds. Repeat 2 through 4 until the coolant level doesn't drop significantly. Then replace the thermostat and cap, and top up the coolant in the front overflow reservoir.

quote It runs right around 220 degrees most of the time (with a 160 degree tstat that was installed by previous owner) if I put a 180 in it, it runs at 230-240 city or high way..

From your description, it sounds most likely that your temperature gauge is reading way off. The thermostat controls the minimum engine operating temperature. It should not affect the maximum temperature the engine reaches, only how long it takes to get there. The next step should be to check the temperature seen by the ECM, using a borrowed scantool or WinALDL.

quote ... it does seem to idle a little high around 1000 when warm ...

This is normal. Hot idle should be about 950 (+/- 50) rpm. Idle speed is controlled by the ECM and is not adjustable.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-16-2012).]

quote From your description, it sounds most likely that your temperature gauge is reading way off. The thermostat controls the minimum engine operating temperature. It should not affect the maximum temperature the engine reaches, only how long it takes to get there. The next step should be to check the temperature seen by the ECM, using a borrowed scantool or WinALDL.

I got a little more concerned about the gauge being right when he said the fan is cycling between at the upper temp ranges. Of course there may be a low temp fan switch installed along with the lower temp thermostat. But his fan is shutting off at about the 200 mark. Wish we knew more about what the PO did and why. But I'm still hoping for it to be a high reading temp gauge.

Have you been able to check the gas mileage on the car? The lower temps would cause poorer mileage.

quote Originally posted by 2farnorth: I got a little more concerned about the gauge being right when he said the fan is cycling between at the upper temp ranges.

I agree. The first step needs to be verifying what the actual coolant temperature is, thus either identifying or eliminating the in-car temperature gauge as the issue, before he starts throwing parts (and money) at the problem.

Gushing coolant out the thermostat housing may indicate that the water pump is probably working OK.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 07-16-2012).]

I'm really curious as to how far the gauge is off too. but like I said with the 180.stat it throws the check engine light on the highway but goes off when it cools off.. (doesn't do it with the 160) so I know its running too hot but this weekend I WILL get the actual temps for you guys ASAP. I know the tstat should be the minimum temp but for some reason it seems to effect the higher temp- thus the reason I turned to you guys. thanks again for the replies and suggestions guys I'll get those temps for you Friday hopefully

edit: 2farnorth- its avg 20 MPG

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-16-2012).]

so uh.. my dad and I were cleaning the iac valve and I broke it.. put a new one in and my idle is at 2000 rpm.. I drove it for 15 min and that didn't help so I drove it again for 20 and its still at 2000?!

quote Originally posted by Kenn07: so uh.. my dad and I were cleaning the iac valve and I broke it.. put a new one in and my idle is at 2000 rpm.. I drove it for 15 min and that didn't help so I drove it again for 20 and its still at 2000?!

Did you adjust the pintle before you installed it? There's supposed yo be a certain distance between the point to the gasket. Can't find my manual right now to look it up.

I got a paper with the iac that said to compress the pintal as far as it will go.. But I tried pushing it in by hand and it wouldnt budge. I wiggled it as suggested on the paper and tried turning it clockwise while applying pressure and it wouldn't compress.

http://www.autozone.com/aut..._/P-0900c152801daa7e

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-20-2012).]

Did you try retracting the spring and spinning the pintle slightly?

It is very important that you don't install the pintle over extended. That will jam the pintle and can also ruin the IAC. Since your idle is too high, your pintle is already retracted. The important thing is that the pintle can move. If it can, the ECM will control it to control the idle.

You can remove the IAC from the throttle body, and with a finger in the IAC hole, control your engine's idle. Have the IAC plugged in and start the engine. When the engine is idling faster than the ECM wants it to be, the ECM should be trying to extend the pintle. When the engine is idling slower, the ECM will try to extend it.

I suspect your IAC pintle is jammed and with a little playing around you can get it to move.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 07-20-2012).]

I took it out and cycled the key and it didn't do anything.. the pentle is retracted I think. I downloaded a fiero pdf and it says for 85's it should be no more the 1 1/8 in extended. mines nowhere near that far out. I'm returning it tomorrow and getting a new one. It doesn't look the same as the one I took out of it anyway.

I still didn't get the obd 1 cable, it's in transit :/

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-21-2012).]

The ap store gave me the wrong IAC lol

You guys were right! lol The stock temperature gauge is 60 degrees high compared to the mechanical. So with the 160 stat my car was at 160 but the gauge said 220, 240=180 now it all makes sense 0.o

Thanks for all the suggestions! Now the only real problem I'm having with it is the a/c belt. It's new but it squeals a lot. It looks like the belt wobbles but the pulleys don't? Alignment issue?

I'll upload some pics of the car for you later

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-29-2012).]

The AC belt is probably just loose. Try adjusting the compressor out to put more tension on the belt. Most people have more problems with the alternator belt squealing on the 2.8. The after market parts stores don't stock the correct belt for the 2.8. It's an odd ball belt and some sell the closest thing in stock as a substitute. Don't know if the dealers still stock them or not. There is another solution that involves buying and installing a tension pulley and longer belt if needed.

If you want your gas mileage to improve I would replace the 160 thermostat with a stock 195 now that you know your gauges status. The 160 will not allow the ecm to go into closed loop so that it can regulate the gas, air, and timing.

I figured it out I didn't see that you could adjust it haha I felt so dumb when I found that.. Yeah I replaced both belts.. The v belt really squealed a lot before.

Could you take a look at this? I don't know what these wires are for. Drivers side under dash

http://postimage.org/image/uym407b8f/

quote Originally posted by Kenn07: Could you take a look at this? I don't know what these wires are for. Drivers side under dash http://postimage.org/image/uym407b8f/

Do any of your interior lights work?
The ones with the blue connectors I believe go to a white distribution block up on the extreme upper end under the driver's side of the dash. You'll probably have to hinge the fuse panel down to see it. I'm a bit color blind so I may be wrong. I was having trouble focusing


The black connector plugs into another connector that should be hanging down just above the fuse block

sweet! I'm going to check it out now! the lights on the floor don't work it looks like someone unplugged this stuff.. the chime box is gone and the fuse panel door as well. thanks a lot I'll get back to ya

quote Originally posted by Kenn07: sweet! I'm going to check it out now! the lights on the floor don't work it looks like someone unplugged this stuff.. the chime box is gone and the fuse panel door as well. thanks a lot I'll get back to ya

The fuse panel doesn't have a door. There are tabs on each side. Squeeze them toward each other and pull down and the whole panel will swing down like on a hinge.

ok I got in the car upside down and folded the fuse panel down.. I don't have the big white plug like you do up in the left corner.. the light is completely gone drivers side and passenger side there's just holes where they were. also looks like a switch is missing on the clutch pedal and I don't have the plug for the black connector like you do.. I'm getting the camera I'll put a link for pics

To make sure we're in the right area in the first pic my hand is holding the fuse block down out of the way and that black cable at the upper right of the pic is the front hood release cable.
Did you reach up in there and feel around?. If I recall correctly my 85 SE had it hidden in the insulation. Of course yours might be POMd (Prev Owner Mod) Do you have any other loose orange, purple, pink, or white wires up in there. That's a lot of wires to relocate or remove.

On the missing clutch switch.....do you have cruise control? I can't find my manual right now but I think the 2nd switch is for the cruise.

I felt around up there pretty good and couldn't find it.. theres a wide flat black plug and a smaller white plug. When I looked at it I was like holy hell why
would they want to remove all of that? theres also a brown wire cut off like right above the brake pedal. I think it might be a speaker wire because theres new audio cables ran to the speakers. Also the wires on the passenger side for the light are completely gone too I couldnt find them tucked anywhere.. I just can't think of a motive for someone to remove them lol



thats the other switch on the clutch pedal. theres one wire clip in it and the bulls eye is on one with no wires and I can't find wires for it anywhere..



upload picture

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-29-2012).]

Your clutch switch situation is okay as long as you don't have cruise control. There's only one plug that goes into the one you have. Looks just like mine.

You second pic.... I'm having trouble trying figure out where and what it is. Is it by chance on the passenger side?

Edit: That black plug with the two white and one orange wires. In the pic it appears to have gotten hot or is it just the pic making it look that way?

[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 07-29-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 2farnorth: Your clutch switch situation is okay as long as you don't have cruise control. There's only one plug that goes into the one you have. Looks just like mine. You second pic.... I'm having trouble trying figure out where and what it is. Is it by chance on the passenger side? Edit: That black plug with the two white and one orange wires. In the pic it appears to have gotten hot or is it just the pic making it look that way?

Yeah there's no cruise

In the second pic if you look to the left side you can see the fuse panel folded down. this hole is to the right (passenger side direction) of the fuse panel on the drivers side.

That plug has something sticky/ greasy on it

quote Originally posted by Kenn07: Yeah there's no cruise In the second pic if you look to the left side you can see the fuse panel folded down. this hole is to the right (passenger side direction) of the fuse panel on the drivers side. That plug has something sticky/ greasy on it

It is shaped a little different from my 86 but I believe that is the mount hole for the under dash light.

Okay on the plug grease. That's better than melted..

haha yeah sure is!

I'll look for that big white plug some more tomorrow but there's like no wires up there compared to your pic
It's just so weird I can't think of why someone would want to take all of that out of there haha



When I first got it haha


photo hosting

[This message has been edited by Kenn07 (edited 07-29-2012).]