I'm considering boosting my 4.9, either a supercharger or a Turbo. What I want to know is, how would I go about setting up for boost with the stock caddy ECM and the 4t60e? I did alot of research on this topic, and while PBJ's setup was awesome, it didn't answer my question on how to go about handling boost with the caddy ECM, as I have to use it for the 60e. Additional fuel controller/timing retard?

Adding on to that, if I did attempt to use an M90 on my 4.9, I would need to do something with the distributor, or use a different supercharger with a smaller snout. The M62 comes to mind, however I don't think it could keep up with the 4.9. If I could put the M62 snout on the M90 that would be awesome, however I read it can't be done for some reason.

Wish it was as easy as the 3800 PCM...

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-12-2012).]

Sell it and build something that is easier to boost.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Sell it and build something that is easier to boost.

Somehow I knew you'd say that....

I would do it if I could at least make even selling my 4.9 to get another 3800/65e...I don't know. I'm considering boosting the 4.9 because I already have it installed and working, but...this whole situation is so frustrating.

The stock 4.9 MAP sensor is a "Red/Gray" connector sensor. It has a different profile than the stock "Green" MAP sensor. Anyways with boost you can't use either the "Red" or the "Green" 1 bar MAP sensors. You will need to switch to a 2 Bar MAP for boost levels up to 15 PSI. That has a White or Orange connector on it. Of course your ECM also needs to be properly programmed for a 2 Bar MAP sensor. The sensor connectors have different 'key' slots cut in them. You can always just dremel a new slot into your existing connector, or get the correct connector.

I don't see an option for a 2 Bar MAP sensor in CATS for the stock 4.9 ECM. I am sure it could be hacked, but with how much difficulty?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-12-2012).]

PBJ used a different PCM (maybe a 7730, or a Syclone/Typhoon) and a 4T60. Not the "E" version.
There is nothing about the Caddy PCM that will lend itself to this. You are in uncharted territory.

You might be able to modify the tables to accommodate the 2 Bar MAP. It's been done on other engines.
I'd ask PBJ, since he's done it on the other PCM.

Check out "Friend Of Yours" thread. He was in the process of building a boosted 4.9. (I'll see if I can find it.)
Several posters shared the opinion that even the M90 would be "marginally useful" for this engine.
If I were going to do this (yeah... it's crossed my mind) I'd look to see what the aftermarket has available for the 4.6 Ford engine. They should be plentiful and (I would think) cheap, if purchased used.

The intake manifold is going to be fun.

By the time you reinvent this wheel, you can probably do a complete L67 swap with less trouble, and probably less expense.

if you want to do it the old way... you could use a 8:1 fuel pressure regulator and cross your fingers.

Don't supercharge a motor that already has bottom end. Turbo it.

As for contolling it, you can do it the real old fashioned way and just add a knock sensor, bigger injectors and a Buick ESC...

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: Don't supercharge a motor that already has bottom end. Turbo it.

I read someone else's argument against this, and I agree with them. Most say the fact that the point of boosting a 4.9 should be top end, which isn't the best way to do it (for me). A 4.9 doesn't have a top end, and you can't make it have one (if otherwise stock). A stock 4.9 just doesn't work well past 5000RPM. So it would be best to help it breath thoughout the whole RPM range, and even enhance the bottom end. This would be a very good setup for me because I have the 2.73 FDR, and therefore even more bottom end would be very helpful. This would give more better acceleration while taking advantage of the small RPM range.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-12-2012).]

I guess my question is how much money is in your budget? How about a change of ECM and the addition of an external trans controller? Expensive but it will accomplish the job. Or change the trans to a non electronic and then pick any boost capable ECM. There are ways but it's going to cost you.

stand alone ECU like megasquirt?

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

What budget...lol.

Yea I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 05-14-2012).]

I believe there are ways to make your ECM work with boost but it's kind of crude in that you have to reprogram the fuel table with cells for boost. Since the fuel table is a fixed size it means taking away from the normally aspirated cells and replacing with cells for boost. With less resolution between cells you lose some of the smooth transitions between cells. Then there is the issue of timing and the need to pull timing under boost. Again, you would have to carve out space from your main timing table. It's more complicated than my simple example though. You have to adjust the .xdf definition file to read the .bin properly in order to make changes. Plus the code itself may not allow the MAP to read higher than a certain value without modification to the code.

Isn't there a caddy specific shop for this stuff? Westers?

quote Originally posted by Hudini: I believe there are ways to make your ECM work with boost but it's kind of crude in that you have to reprogram the fuel table with cells for boost. Since the fuel table is a fixed size it means taking away from the normally aspirated cells and replacing with cells for boost. With less resolution between cells you lose some of the smooth transitions between cells. Then there is the issue of timing and the need to pull timing under boost. Again, you would have to carve out space from your main timing table. It's more complicated than my simple example though. You have to adjust the .xdf definition file to read the .bin properly in order to make changes. Plus the code itself may not allow the MAP to read higher than a certain value without modification to the code. Isn't there a caddy specific shop for this stuff? Westers?

Honestly that is above my skill level right now. I understand the concept and how it can affect things, but I don't want to mess it up and make it worse, I'm not that good with tuning such as that right now. Besides, like you said, it would affect driveability, wouldn't be as smooth.
Not many are messing with the 4.9's at this level anymore, they have gone to better platforms for things such as turbos, and rightfully so.

Hit up these guys for either how hard it would be to do a 2 Bar 2240, or what it would take to control your transmission on an ECM that would control your 4T60E

http://www.gearhead-efi.com/

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 05-13-2012).]

Ok, what would the best ECM/code mask be a turbo 4.9 nowadays, excluding whatever transmission I have? 7730 or what? I'm sure things have come along since PBJ made his set up

I think that you'll find that where PBJ was, is pretty much "state of the art" for that engine.
All the development has been directed at OBD2 stuff, since they are now routinely programmed.

Ok, That makes sense. Thanks. I wonder if I could get an OBD2 pcm working on a 4.9...