timmed my 2.8 today and did the following

1 start the car and let it warm up
2 stop the engine and closed the loop on th aldl connector
3 attach timing light to no1 ht lead
4 start the car back up
5 adjusted the distributor accordingly ( also cross referenced with no4 ht lead )
6 set at 10 degrees

this is my question - once I had finished and removed the link in the aldl connector i started the car and pointed my timing gun at the timing marks but the harmonic balancer mark was way off from the timing mark on the engine block.

can anyone give me a reason for this

any input welcomed

jon

Thats just how it works. Thats the whole reason you have to jumper the aldl.

I believe when the car is running normally (open loop?) the difference your are seeing is the computer adjusting the spark timing based on the motor's RPMS. The timing you set is the base timing. That is just the base point that thw computer starts from to make it's adjustments.

------------------
(TRSX) The Zombiero - "Thrice resurrected"
1985 GT, 4 Speed Muncie, 3.4PR V6, 15" Lace GT wheels, Power everything, sunroof, Red with gray effects. Driven and enjoyed daily.

Fiero GT- 2 seater, mid engine, rear wheel drive, H.O. V6, manual rack and pinion steering, fully independent suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, no ABS, no traction control, no speed limiter, available T-Tops. So, outdated econo-box or classic sports car? You decide.

thank you, it now makes sense.
everything else was fine i.e tach and sound.

just curiousoty got the better of me

thank you for the explanation

jon

Yeah, ECM adds over 30 degrees of advance at idle, which makes the mark pretty much disappear. That's why it's critical to jump the ALDL terminals, that forces the ECM to release control of the timing back to the module. All of the timing maps in the ECM assume the base timing is at 10 degrees advance.

Is it important to let the engine run for some minuts before timing the ignition?

I have a car that wont start - so that could be a problem for me...

Is there someone who knows a thread or something that can explain EXACTLY how to set the timing? I have the Haynes manual but I don´t really understand. Would like som pics or more information set it up. Where do I se those 10 degrees, for example?

[This message has been edited by Andreeas (edited 04-16-2012).]

If you removed the distributor and re-installed it, there is a very good chance you have it in a place that it won't run at.

This procedure will put the distributor adjustment close enough to start.

Take out the #1 spark plug. That is the plug right under the alternator. Then put your assistant's finger into the spark plug hole.

Turn the crank using the bolt holding on the crankshaft pulley. Turn the crank clockwise. Keep turning till your assistant says air is being blown out of the spark plug hole. It may take more than one turn to do this.

Keep on turning till the mark on the crankshaft lines up with the 10 deg before TDC mark. - See video below for a visualization of where the marks are - don't bother with any other instructions in the video until you get the engine running

Now open up the distributor. First make sure the rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug tower. Then rotate the distributor base to perfectly align the prongs and points of the reluctor with the stator (below the rotor). Then confirm the rotor is still pointing to what is the #1 spark plug tower. If so snug down the distributor hold down bolt.

Replace the dist cap
Replace the spark plug
Remove the wrench from the bolt at the front of the engine.

Your timing should be close enough to start the engine.
----------
Instructions for AFTER the engine is running

Okey..

Have some more questions..

As I understand the Haynes Manual:
1) The cylinder nearest the right rear light is nr 1, and the one nearest the left rear light is nr 5? That will also make the one nearest the battery is nr 2?? Is this right?
2) I've also read that the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 . . Is this right? (some say thats strange, but I said: "hey, thats what Haynes says")

Can anyone explain where to put which sparkplug (sparkcable) on the distributor cap? I.e. how do I know which sparkplug tower belongs to which spark plug? I couldnt find this in the Haynes manual.

When I have lined up the crankshaft at 10 degrees and open up, the rotor should line up with nr 1 sparkplug tower.

"Then rotate the distributor base to perfectly align the prongs and points of the reluctor with the stator (below the rotor)." As my english/american is not what i should, I don´t really understand what this means. Can someone explain more? Or pictures?

the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 unlike a 4 cylinder car which is 1-3-4-2
first let the car warm up
then use a paper clip or wire to jump the aldl link.
then put your timing light on number 1 spark plug lead
start the car and point the the timing light down on to the timing marks on the harmonic balancer
then rotate the distributor where nessasary to either advance or retard the ignition to get 10 degrees.

this is where the position of my number 1 spark plug wire is (which if you remove the cap that is generally where the rotor is pointing) then just go clockwise in order i.e 1-2-3-4-5-6



jon

[This message has been edited by jon m (edited 04-19-2012).]

Thanks Jon!

The problem right now is that I wont make it start at all, but I hope I'll have some time tomorrow to check the timing....

About the distributor cap. I got confused when I looked at mine because there was a "1" - mark inside the cap. But the one that was marked was the one that in your picture would be number six. Weird.... Thought that somebody had done something foolish so I started moving all around...

Anyway.. Now I have something to work with... Thanks to you all so long..!!!

In the old days -1960s-70s- A lot racers power-timed their engines: we blocked off the throttle at about 3,500 RPM, advanced and retarded timing, then locking the distrib at spot where the RPMs were highest. After doing such, if you put a timing light to the engine at idle it would seldom agree with OEMs recommend timing mark at idle, but it worked great on the track! Setting timing in the maintenance mode today is basically doing the same thing.

------------------

trueleo.com
RSpiderII@aol.com

First follow phonedawgz procedure for making sure you have the #1 piston at 10* before top dead center. (He said #1 is under the alternator which is right rear in your question) Here is a pic of the timing marks.


Now you can make any position on the distributor #1 by performing the above procedure and then physically moving the distributor so that the rotor points to the wire that you have connected to the #1 spark plug. Generally one chooses the closest point to the #1 cylinder so you have less crossing of spark plug wires. Also, since the firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6 you simply place the spark plug wires clockwise in that order.


This is the prongs and points under the rotor. Don't worry so much about these. You want to locate the rotor above and point it toward the #1 spark plug tower on the dist cap.

Hello again.

Tried to set the timing today.

Turned the crankshaft so it lined up with 10 degrees (as good as I could see).
Opened up the distributor and tried to make the rotor point at spark plug nr 1. Found this impossible to make, no matter how I tried to turn the distributor. Couldnt come nearer than in the middle between 6 and 1. Am I doing this wrong, maybe?
Read at some forums that the rotor should point at nr 1, but in the Haynes manual it says that the rotor should point between 6 and 1. Dont know what to beleve or try with.. Can someone give me some input?

If the rotor isn't pointing to number one you haven't found top dead center yet, but if it's just a small amount you should be able to turn the distributor to match the rotor. not the other way around. Some people and some books show the rotor pointing parallel to the crankshaft, but at least on my car it's a little more to the rear of the car. If you did the phonedawgz procedure and it's between six and one, you should be able to turn the distributor to line up with the rotor. It doesn't have to be perfect, but when the motor is lined up with top dead center of cylinder number one the rotor has to contact the distributor pole connected to the number one cylinder spark plug, not six or two. If it lines up with a different spark plug wire change the wires.

Is it ok/normal that the SES sends a code 42 when i short A and B (diagnostic mode)?

Maybe... Codes are stored until ECM get a reset.

Clear code, then jumper the ALDL pin.
Check and clear code again when done.

42 happens again... iffy wiring, pickup coil, dead tack filter, and others may have problems...

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)