I'm really sorry to make another post about this, but I cannot find my original post. I know Phonedawgs had helped me out a good deal on this, and I can't find his info now.
I got all the pedals in, and I took some pictures. I put EVERYTHING back (as far as wiring goes) as it would have been when the car was still an automatic equipped car.
As you can see in the first picture, I've got the clutch pedal on the left, with nothing on it. I see the slot in there for something, and then of course there's the safety start switch that attaches to it on the side. So here's my question, there are TWO things I need to do with regard to the pedals. Cruise and Safety Start.
Cruise Control first: What do I need to do to add the cruise disable functionality on my clutch pedal? Is it as simple as getting another one of those detent switches (like the one on the top on my brake pedal) and simlpy installing another harness in-line of the other one? So that way, if either switch is tripped, then it disengages? I'm ASSUMING / GUESSING that literally all I need to do is get another sensor and simply piggy back the entire harnes off of it, right?
Safety-Start Switch second, ok, so the cabin harness from the 87 SE / V6 car that I stripped was nasty as hell, and it was kind of hacked up from the previous owner anyway. So I just cut off the purple and yellow lead as far back as I could. In the second picture I posted below, I have two switches there, one which I now realize is a brake switch (only need one of those) and the other is the start switch of which I also have two, the other one is more complete, the one in the picture is missing something. Anyway, what do I need to do?
I have the steering column from my automatic car, and the steering column from the manual car. I remember you guys said that if I wanted to do it the least invasive way, I could simply grab a wire off of column, and simply route my start switch in-line of it, is that correct?
Is there anything else I need to worry about on my automatic column? I'm thinking of taking apart the manual column and see if I can add that key-release knob / switch thingy. The only thing is, my automatic column is immaculate (like brand new looking), and the manual column is nasty, so I am very reluctant to use anything off the manual column unless I have to. Is it still possible to LOCK the steering column? Now that I no longer have an automatic shifter (and removed that cable) what do I have to ensure that my column can lock?
Cruise - yes daisy chain the clutch switch so one wire goes to the brake switch, then a wire from the brake to the clutch, and then a wire return on the clutch switch
Safety start switch - So you have a fat yellow wire that goes to the ignition switch now. What you want is the existing yellow wire needs to be moved to go to the safety start switch. Then you need a fat jumper wire that runs from that safety start switch to where the yellow wire was attached to the ignition switch.
Column - Yes you can move the lever from the manual column to the automatic column. Adding the lever will prevent you from turning the key back to lock unless you depress the lever. On the automatic column you can turn the key back to lock without having to deal with the lever. Either way once the key is turned back to lock the steering column will lock once the key is turned fully back to lock. idk if it's really worth moving the lever onto your automatic column. That's up to you.
Pictures - ah well I think you already know what I am going to say about the pictures
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-14-2011).]
IP: Logged
01:27 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25895 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Cruise - yes daisy chain the clutch switch so one wire goes to the brake switch, then a wire from the brake to the clutch, and then a wire return on the clutch switch
Safety start switch - So you have a fat yellow wire that goes to the ignition switch now. What you want is the existing yellow wire needs to be moved to go to the safety start switch. Then you need a fat jumper wire that runs from that safety start switch to where the yellow wire was attached to the ignition switch.
Column - Yes you can move the lever from the manual column to the automatic column. Adding the lever will prevent you from turning the key back to lock unless you depress the lever. On the automatic column you can turn the key back to lock without having to deal with the lever. Either way once the key is turned back to lock the steering column will lock once the key is turned fully back to lock. idk if it's really worth moving the lever onto your automatic column. That's up to you.
Pictures - ah well I think you already know what I am going to say about the pictures
Hah... crap... ok, I forgot to add them. I just added them above.
Thanks PhoneDawgz...
The cruise sounds pretty self explanitory, I assume that of the four wires there, two of them are just circuits that join, so as you say, I can just daisy-chain, and that's what I'll do.
As for the other harness, just want to verify, you say that I should simply install this safety switch in-line of the yellow wire going into the steering column? Just curious, doesn't my automatic already have a safety switch somewhere? I remember I could only start the car in neutral, or in park. Is that safety switch installed in the steering column or something, would I be bypassing that? Is that the little metal lever on the column? Maybe I can use that as a security feature, and I just reach down and push that lever down when I don't want someone to start the car?
Yeah your automatic has a switch. It's located on the transmission. When you swap to the manual you will need to splice those two wires together. One is a fat yellow wire (yeah the one coming from the switch) and the other is a fat purple wire that runs to the starter.
There are also on that tranny position switch a blue and green wire. Blue is a switched ignition wire that has power on it when the key is on, and green runs to the reverse lights. So you need to cut those two off of the multi-switch and splice them onto a connector that plugs onto the tranny reverse switch. The exception to that is if you run a 4 speed. Then the reverse switch is on the shifter itself.
Two more wires will be on the multi switch. They tell the ECM if the car is in park/neutral OR a drive gear. You can just clip them. You do need to either swap your ECM for one that is from a manual, or just swap the programming PROM chip in the ECM for one.
You wouldn't want your ECM to be left out of the party and still thinking there is an automatic back there fudgeing things up.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-14-2011).]
IP: Logged
10:29 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Yeah, the PROM chip for the auto tranny gets confused when you're driving around with a manual transmission. Since the manual tranny doesn't have an "in gear" indicator for the ECM, the ECM sees the car speeding up, and engine going under load, while the tranny is (supposedly) in Neutral.
As far as the neutral safety switch is concerned... does anyone else drive the car? Do you think you can remember to depress the clutch pedal (or shift the tranny into Neutral) before starting the engine? If neither of those are an issue, then you don't need a neutral safety switch. Just splice the fat purple and yellow wires (the ones in the big electrical plug on top of the auto tranny) together, and you're done.
That said, if you want to wire it in, just extend the fat purple and yellow wires up to the neutral safety switch on the clutch pedal assembly. It doesn't really matter which wire goes where on the switch. All the switch does is connect or disconnect the two wires.
I'm not sure why you'd want to add the key release lever (I think it's annoying). But like mentioned above, you should be able to swap the appropriate parts over from a manual steering column. For what it's worth, I swapped a Getrag in my Fiero, and kept the original (auto tranny) steering column. I just deleted the shifter interlock cable, and called it done. You can do so by swapping over the bracket from the manual steering column (which, of course, doesn't have an interlock cable).
Also, FYI the key release lever is not related to the neutral safety switch. They do not affect each other in any way. All the key release lever does is allow you to turn the key.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 03-14-2011).]
IP: Logged
10:48 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25895 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Yeah, I actually gutted an 87 SE / V6 5-Speed that I couldn't get a title for, so that's what I'm using to convert my Fiero. I saved the ECM and had a custom prom burned for my 3.1 w/ .040 overbore V6 rebuild with 5-Speed and the H272 cam. The guy couldn't fine tune it of course since I couldn't send him any data, but he sent me a tune that was basically what he had done for another 3.1 w/ H272 and for a 5-Speed. So... I should be OK in that respect.
I'm just curious... is there anything I need to do to make the "SHIFT" light come on? I know a lot of people think it's annoying, but I thought it was kind of neat and wouldn't mind having it.
As for the key-lock latch thingy... I basically am totally rebuilding the Fiero, and I want to put every option known to man-kind on it that would have potentially been offered on it. I also want to make it look like it came from the factory with a manual, so I want to make sure that every thing that WOULD have been on there, is on there.
The ECM has a pin that it grounds to turn on the shift light.
On an automatic GM took that pin and instead grounds it to control the TCC. To light the light what you will need to do is on the engine harness reroute that pin to the correct pin on C203. Then on your body harness you will need to extend a wire from that pin on C203 to the correct pin on the dash. Then on the dash you most likely will need to add the bulb.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 03-14-2011).]
IP: Logged
12:25 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
AND you will probably need to run a power wire from the fusebox to the gauga cluster, because the electrical plug on your auto-tranny-equipped Fiero's gauge cluster does not have a wire or an electrical contact for the upshift light. At least, mine doesn't. So I'm assuming yours will be the same. You may be able to snag the appropriate wire from your 5-speed Fiero and splice it in.
IP: Logged
12:41 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 25895 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
You may be able to snag the appropriate wire from your 5-speed Fiero and splice it in.
Whoops... that just got picked up by the garbage truck this morning... damn.
Honestly, the cabin harness was NASTY... it had everything I needed, but I just couldn't justify tearing out the wiring in my own car, which was totally pristine, not even in the slightest bit dirty, and then replace it with the nasty 5-Speed cabin wiring that's so gross and dingy looking...
I cut almost everything I thought I might need off of it, and and saved that, and then dumped the larger section of the harness in the dumpster.
I did save the engine compartment wiring harness, which surprisingly enough, looks almost perfect. It's dirty, but might be no worse than what I already have...
I don't suppose I can mix and match though, I can't use an interior auto harness and then use an engine compartment manual harness?
Just got this out of the way. It worked quite well. I cut the harness off for the clutch start-switch far enough back from the original factory manual wiring harness, that I didn't need to hack into my factory wiring. I found the plug from the manual parts car, took the lead out of it for the yellow positive wire, attached it to the yellow wire from the clutch-start harness. All I had to do was push the tab in so I could remove the yellow wire from the plug that goes into the steering column, and then put a spade connector on one end of the donor pig-tail, and re-use the cut-off part from the column connector for the parts car, and it worked perfectly. No hacking into the factory wiring of my own car.
I installed the safety switch, and the only thing left inside the car for cruise / start is for me to add the second sensor for the cruise control which shouldn't be a big deal.
Oh, one last thing... should I have used the column switch from the manual, rather than the automatic? I disconnected the automatic shifter interlock cable and completely removed it. It doesn't appear like that's an issue, but I decided to use the column switch from my automatic since it was cleaner looking. The one from the manual was dingy, so I didn't use it. I'm guessing it doesn't matter. The one from my automatic has provisions for the shifter cable, but it shouldn't matter at all as long as it's disconnected, right?
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 03-25-2011).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Oh, one last thing... should I have used the column switch from the manual, rather than the automatic? I disconnected the automatic shifter interlock cable and completely removed it. It doesn't appear like that's an issue, but I decided to use the column switch from my automatic since it was cleaner looking. The one from the manual was dingy, so I didn't use it. I'm guessing it doesn't matter. The one from my automatic has provisions for the shifter cable, but it shouldn't matter at all as long as it's disconnected, right?
Just make sure the shifter lock cable is wire-tied out of the way, so that it doesn't catch on the manual shifter or anything. Unless you disconnected it on the column end as well, the cable will still move a little when you turn the key. I wouldn't bother switching the ignition switch pieces out for the manual ones. It won't add any usefulness for you, and will just mean you have to press a lever to turn the key to lock and remove it.
The manual harness will work in an automatic car. It's how I did mine.
You will need to move one wire. The fat yellow wire appears on C500 on the car side of the connector. It needs to meet the fat purple wire on the engine side of the connector. (Sorry... Don't remember which pins.) The wire needs to be moved on one side or the other. It doesn't really matter which side, although I chose to move mine on the car side of the connector so that any future engine replacements will work with an unmodded manual harness.
Also be aware that your trunk popper will now work at all times. Usually, on the automatic, it is wired through the gear selector (IIRC.) The manual has it wired through the parking brake.
