I am buying a replica for my wife. One has a 2.8 stock that I could afford to replace with something else(leaning toward 3.4). The other is a 3.1(stroked 2.8) with 210hp. She is looking for a daily driver that is pretty fast (best of both worlds). Please give opinions. Thank you.

If it's a 3.1L and the seller is claiming 210 HP then you had better find out every modification done to it or at least what engine code it is. The standard "stroked-to-3.1L" 2.8L puts out a bit more HPs than the OEM 140-ish HP rating, but not THAT much. The only ones that put out around that were the LG5 'McLaren' and LQ1 code engines, which both put out over 200 HP in stock trim.

A stock 3.4L depending on what it comes out of is rated around 160-ish HP - this is for the typical RWD origin engines from Firebirds/Camaros.

You'll be "quick" with either one, but I digress to use the word "fast." I think they push the Fiero along just find. If you want "fast," there are obviously better routes for that, like a 3800.

The oiling in the 3.4 engine makes it better than the 3.1 IMHO. I would also be somewhat skeptical wrt the 210 HP claim of the 3.1. BTW, I do have a 3.4 push rod engine and elected to up the HP with a turbo.

Nelson

with those choices, 3.4 ! if I had to do it again, I'd use a 3400. (Roller)

I have a 95 Camaro 3.4L in one of my Fieros... Its a strong runner and a bit quicker than my 2.8L.

The 3.4L P/R is a decent engine upgrade and a strong runner. New crate engines cost around $2000 If you can find a good used 3.4L that would make for an economical upgrade and you can get these engines to around 200HP with a modest amount of work.
As for the 200HP 3.1L; unless it has high compression pistons, a cam/kit, free flow intake and exhaust, I would be very skeptical .

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, ZZP Intercooler, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

3.4 can be hard to find....at least around here there are not too many left. I would be skeptical of anyone saying they have a 3.1 with 210hp, unless it has a turbo on it.

The claim of 210 HP on that modded 2.8 is probably BS... unless it is turbocharged, or has some pretty serious modifications. That claim, in itself, would steer me away from that deal. Plus, as mentioned already, the 3.4 V6 is all around a better engine than the 2.8.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: 3.4 can be hard to find....at least around here there are not too many left. I would be skeptical of anyone saying they have a 3.1 with 210hp, unless it has a turbo on it.

A 100 shot of NOS on a 3.1 should put it at right around 210 whp. But yeah, turbo or NOS to get that.

Between the two, the 3.4 would be better, as mentioned.

If you can afford to do the 3.4 swap after buying the 2.8 car, you might want to consider just going for a 3800 instead. It will cost about the same as doing a 3.4, and give you room to upgrade later, where the 3.4 doesn't as much.

3800 NA Series II with a 4T65E. Great mileage, snappy performance, dependable.

quote Originally posted by mram10: .. She is looking for a daily driver that is pretty fast (best of both worlds). Please give opinions. Thank you.

My opinion. Neither will be pretty fast unless you are coming from a 64hp old VW. Just pretty fun becasue it is a Fiero. I have had 2.8 and 3.4s moded to the top. If you want something pretty fast you will need to step up out of that platform.

First, Thank you for all the quick replies to my newbie questions.

Secondly, if the 3.4 doesn't offer much more than the 2.8, what would be the the easiest swap with the most power and mileage? I have read a lot on here about the 3800, 4.9 and northstar. I would like to keep it simple for the sake of getting her car up and running soon.

I also need the info for associated tranny. Thanks.

quote Originally posted by mram10: First, Thank you for all the quick replies to my newbie questions. Secondly, if the 3.4 doesn't offer much more than the 2.8, what would be the the easiest swap with the most power and mileage? I have read a lot on here about the 3800, 4.9 and northstar. I would like to keep it simple for the sake of getting her car up and running soon. I also need the info for associated tranny. Thanks.

I would say a 3800 with a phonedawgz harness is mostly very straight forward. Mounts and part numbers are all out there. Axles and exhaust I would say are the more tricky parts.

I think the 3400 will get you what you want (retaining" stock WIRING & Mounts") as soon as you go above that, you better have "deep pockets"!

I want the most engine/transmission for the money. The $$$ is more important than the time spent I guess. If the 3.4 is it, then so be it. Is there a link here that has a breakdown of engine options with round about costs to get them running?

3.4 has a revised oiling system that is far better than the 2.8 and 3.1 blocks, you are better off since it will be a more reliable engine once completed.

THanks Oh1o. I just found an '01 park avenue that runs for $900. If I rebuilt the motor myself, would it still be a spendy swap?

The 3.4 PR is the easiest swap, and will give you a stock appearing engine compartment. I like how the 3.4 performs with the 5-speed. On my car is was a very noticeable difference from the stock 2.8 and is very reliable.

The 3800 will give you more power but requires more fabridation skills and knowledge of wiring.
Most people run them with automatics, and they do add some weight to the rear of the car. If I were to do a 3800 it would have to be a supercharged version for all the extra work involved in the swap. This way I could justify the extra expense, and work involved, everytime I booted the throttle.

Well crap! Is there an easier swap then the 3.4 with more power?

Nope.

I've been reading here and found the 3.4 vs 3400 threads. Is it correct I want the camaro 3.4 for an easy swap? Or is the Firebird 3400 just as easy?

The easy swap is a 3.4 from a 93-95 Camaro/Firebird. 3400 SFI's in Grand Am's, Malibu's, Alero's etc. are the harder swaps.

Thanks. One person above, mentioned the 3.4 swap and the 3800 cost about the same? Is that accurate?

I have both swaps and the 3800 SC is most certainly the most expensive and more difficult than a push rod 3.4. With the 3.4 push rod engine all you really have to do is transfer some of the 2.8 liter parts to the 3.4 and drill the new starter mounting holes on the 3.4 block. Rodney sells a kit to do this easily or you can sometimes find a used one on PFF or it might even be possible to borrow one.

Nelson

quote Originally posted by mram10: Thanks. One person above, mentioned the 3.4 swap and the 3800 cost about the same? Is that accurate?

[This message has been edited by hnthomps (edited 11-30-2011).]

Thanks HN. Is a 3.4 turbo option available on the cheap? Is the 3800SC worth the extra time and $$ over the 3.4?

quote Originally posted by mram10: Well crap! Is there an easier swap then the 3.4 with more power?

From the smiley you used above, I see you already recognize the humor inherent in that question.

quote Originally posted by mram10: One person above, mentioned the 3.4 swap and the 3800 cost about the same? Is that accurate?

All other things being equal, the more accurate and more complete statement is that compared to the pushrod 3.4L `93 through `95 "Camarobird" engine swap or the pushrod 3.4L crate engine swap, the 3800 swap (and the supercharged one in particular) is:

• More Difficult
  
  
• More Expensive
  
  
• More Powerful

Setting aside for the moment those three issues, I note you mentioned in regard to your wife that:

quote Originally posted by mram10: She is looking for a daily driver....

Accordingly, two previously unmentioned, and oft-forgotten but very important points to consider are:

1. If work, family, or other obligations mandate minimal downtime for the car while its engine swap is being completed, that favors the 3.4L engine swap.
   
   
2. If circumstances or personal preference mandate paying a mechanic to fix an unexpected engine problem, that favors the 3.4L engine swap.

However, if neither of these conditions apply in regard to your wife's situation, then neither condition is a reason to favor the 3.4L engine swap.***
I belatedly noticed that your thread contains your first post here, so welcome to Pennock's Fiero Forum, mram10!

WELCOME to the madness!

I plan on doing the 3.4 pushrod swap sometime in the near future (after i get my car to looking presentable, no bumper on her right now =(
Anyway, I think that the 3.4 would be a good swap for any daily driven fiero from what I have read. Should only take a couple of days to complete the entire swap in my driveway and the cost seems to be pretty reasonable for everything if a good engine is found for a decent price. I personally like how everything looks when it is stock and the 3.4pr keeps the stock intake manifold and valve covers which is awesome! No one will know that there is a different engine there unless they know what to look for and take a long couple minutes searching your engine bay. From what I have read, the 3.4 will show a world of difference in performance.

My Fiero makes me smile when I drive it now. I believe that with that engine, I will be more than happy! The engine should be pretty good matched to my 4speed trans as well. =)

quote Originally posted by mram10: Thanks. One person above, mentioned the 3.4 swap and the 3800 cost about the same? Is that accurate?

If you do a straight basic 3.4 swap it will be definitely cheaper unless you go and buy a new crate engine. Also if you start adding things like headers, fancy intakes, cam/rockers, etc. the price will go up quickly and will give you something in my opinion not anything close worth to a 3800sc. I have been there twice so I am talking form experience. If you find a good 3800sc that you can use as is and keep it simple you can keep the cost low and have your cake and eait it too

I had a 3.4 crate engine installed in my 88GT some 60,000 miles ago along with a t440 auto. I use the car for cruising, not for racing. Depening on which t440, it can get decent mpg or great mpg. It looks stock and can move out when you push it. OD kicks in at 47 mph, or if you push it, stays in 3rd gear past 90+, then I chicken out.

I am not certain if a "cheap" turbo option even exists unless you can build everything yourself and already have the equipment needed. I recently sold a used KFG turbo kit for about $1700 plus shipping. This one was basically everything you need to do the turbo upgrade and included a modified harness.

If you had to pay someone to do the install and use commercially available turbo kits with a new/rebuilt 3.4 push rod engine, the cost to install the turbo 3.4 would be similar to that of a stock 3800 SC Series II but the turbo HP would be a bit lower. MPG (around 24/25 with A/C at highway speeds) on my turbo 3.4 and 3800 SC engines are similar but I have a larger cam in the 3800 SC Series III plus some additional goodies that may not be helpful for MPG.

Nelson

quote Originally posted by mram10: Thanks HN. Is a 3.4 turbo option available on the cheap? Is the 3800SC worth the extra time and $$ over the 3.4?

First, thank you so much for the welcomes and the quick answers. I want this to be the last engine I put in the car and I want it to make my wife grin when she puts the pedal to the floor.

After reading you advice, I am leaning toward the 3.4. Questions:
1. Your choice of tranny? (reading 4 speed manual is what others preferred)
2. Best place to find and how much generally?
3. Did any 3.4s come with SC or turbo?
4. How much can you get a decent 3800sc with all parts needed for swap generally?

Thanks again guys. Can't wait to get started!

[This message has been edited by mram10 (edited 12-01-2011).]

Many say that the getrag 5 speed is the trans of choice for really any swap, but specifically they say that the gearing in those transmissions are a good match for the 3.4 I personally like my 4 speed and would keep that when I put in the 3.4.

Again, it will depend on what you want the car for, I have two 5 speed getrag Fieros and the one auto. If you drive in stop n go traffic you will appreciate an auto. If you really enjoy shifting, get a manual. Locating a good getrag anymore maybe hard. I believe that a good getrag is maybe $1000, a t460 or t440 maybe more prevelent as many GM cars had them from the late 1980s until 2000 or beyond. You definitely don't want a t125 (stock Fiero auto).

OK, I am changing my mind for good! (yeah, right) If this is the last motor I put in, I think I will go for the 3800sc II. Questions:
1. Found an engine for $600 at salvage yard out of 98 grand prix. Good deal?
2. Best bullet proof tranny for this engine (manual prefered, but auto is ok)
3. Is there a kit that has everything for swap?

I'm going to address only your first question four posts above, since my answer to that question will apply to any engine swap you end up deciding to go with. Your question was:

quote Originally posted by mram10: 1. Your choice of tranny?

Transmission preferences can vary considerably from one individual to another. Those personal preferences often are very intensely held, and for very different reasons.

Accordingly, let's return to your very first sentence here:

quote Originally posted by mram10: I am buying a replica for my wife.

I'd think a very prudent and much more important question to ask first regarding any transmission choice for your wife's car is what is her transmission preference --- not mine nor anyone else's --- for an automatic versus a manual transmission?

...W-a-i-t a minute!

Are you doing something like the character, Homer, in The Simpsons cartoon show episode where Homer bought as a birthday present for his wife, a new bowling ball with already-drilled holes in it to fit his finger span (rather than hers), and which has his name (rather than hers) already engraved on that bowling ball?

You are buying this car for your wife, rather than for yourself, right?

Project34, I am offended Sir! The 3 rifles I got for her birthday, Christmas and our anniversary were what I thought she wanted

But really, she loves the idea of the replica. She wants a manual, I prefer auto. I am actually looking for the strongest tranny that will mate with the 3800.

Most 3800 SC powered cars came with a T460E auto. You will need to reprogram the computer to run a manual. So you will need not only the engine and the computer that went with it, find someone to reprogram the computer and build a wiring harness (not Fast Fiero Lloyd) that will mate with the Fiero's wiring harness. Make sure you get the right computer..series II, I think. or some potential hassles down the road. It will not be cheap.

I was wondering why i need any of the old fiero wiring? The plan is to add the 3800sc and probably 4t60(non-elec is what I was told), sebring steering column and grand prix gauges. Will I need any wiring from my fiero?

No need for lights, electric windows, radios etc. go for it. It is your time, money and car.