I am in the process this winter of replacing all my A/C components to new. Hoses, accumulator and compressor. I saw this kit at TFS Part #26240. Will I need this to convert from R-12? I don't know anything about this as my A/C never worked anyway. So all stock components, which will be new in my case, will work as long as I get this kit?
I read this article but have no experience with A/C. So I just get a new compressor and it will work with R-12 or 134a With 134a you need the TFS kit. No flushing because of the filter in the kit?
Any advice or recommendations will be appreciated.

You need a HR6 compressor if you have a V6 engine. Otherwise, replace any leaking o-rings and any o-rings at connections that you disconnect. Install a new accumulator and orifice tube, vacuum and recharge - If you think the old compressor failed catastrophically, then flush the lines out as well.

If you have a 4-cylinder engine, the V5 compressor will work fine. You don't need to replace the hoses with barrier hoses. So in short, no - you don't need the conversion kit.

Advance auto has remanfactured HR6 compressors for $162 with a $50 promotion (use promo code VISA) with free shipping - not bad huh? They are rebuilt in Texas too.

I had my Fiero done this past summer, they said flush it to get the R12 out before 134 goes in.
Otherwise above post sounds tight to me. Our V5 (4 cyl) compressor we left itn because it seemed fine, it lasted about a month and siezed, I recommend just replacing the compressor, otherwise if it fails later you get charged to flush/ refill again.

question,
if you change to the hr6 compressor (assumong that the hr6 is not the stoce compressor), would stock 87 fiero gt hoses be used or would those need to be changed to a different hose set (for the 134a conversion?)

quote Originally posted by ace5514: question, if you change to the hr6 compressor (assumong that the hr6 is not the stoce compressor), would stock 87 fiero gt hoses be used or would those need to be changed to a different hose set (for the 134a conversion?)

quote Originally posted by masospaghetti: You don't need to replace the hoses with barrier hoses. So in short, no - you don't need the conversion kit.

I've heard this is because the mineral oil in the original R12 permeates the original hoses and "seals" the gaps that would otherwise let the smaller R134a molecules escape. But regardless, the original hoses, as long as they are in good shape, will work just fine.

And I agree with 2.5, it's wiser to replace a questionable compressor even if its the correct design so you don't have to vacuum and recharge twice. Compressors don't last forever, and an original compressor that is now over 20 years old is way past its expiration date.

[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 11-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ace5514: if you change to the hr6 compressor ... would stock 87 fiero gt hoses be used or would those need to be changed to a different hose set (for the 134a conversion?)

1) The HR6 is an exact replacement for the earlier DA6 compressor; the differences are all internal. (The V5 compressor is totally different, though, so you shouldn't try to replace a V5 with an HR6.) The existing hoses should work fine HR6 vs. DA6, as long as they weren't already leaking. GM did use several different kinds of sealing washers where the hoses attach to the compressor, though, so just verify that the rear manifold plate of the new compressor is identical to the old one.

2) All the OEM hoses I've ever seen on Fieros are already the nylon barrier hose recommended for use with R-134a. You can tell for sure by the style of crimp used on the end fittings:



3) Per the EPA ... even the "old style" all-rubber hoses can be used with R-134a if they have previously been in use on an R-12 system. The mineral oil in an R-12 system effectively seals the pores in the old rubber hoses.

4) Per both GM and the EPA, flushing the system is not required when converting to R134a unless the old compressor failed and contaminated the system with debris. Examine the screen on the old orifice tube when you remove it; one or two small flakes of metal are considered normal, but more than that suggests that flushing the system would be a good idea. Installing an aftermarket suction-side filter is also a good idea to protect the new compressor from damage due to previous contamination, even after flushing, but it's not required.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-04-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: 2) All the OEM hoses I've ever seen on Fieros are already the nylon barrier hose recommended for use with R-134a. You can tell for sure by the style of crimp used on the end fittings:

Yeah I have had a 1988 2.8 and a 1986 4 cyl car converted, they didn't need to replace any hoses, (except at the compressor and only on the 4 cyl car, the crimps were leaking, they said were leaking even when R12 was in it. More than likley why teh AC didn't work before I bought the car.)

How do you "flush" or "vacuum" the system? When I did my engine swap I left the compressor and and off as I had planned on replacing it all. I did cap the lines that follow the frame.

quote Originally posted by raysr11: How do you "flush" or "vacuum" the system?

Flush: After removing the compressor, accumulator, and orifice tube and opening up all refrigerant hose connections, you "flush" the refrigerant lines, condenser, and evaporator with a liquid solvent to remove any debris and old mineral oil lubricant, and then use dry compressed air to blow out and evaporate any remaining solvent.

Vacuum: After installing the new compressor, accumulator, and orifice tube (don't forget to add R-134a compatible lubricant at this point) and connecting everything back together to create a totally sealed refrigerant system, you must use a deep-vacuum pump to remove all air and water vapor from the system before charging it with refrigerant. The evacuation step is also your final check for leaks in the sealed system.

With all due respect, if you are asking questions this basic you should seriously consider paying a competent shop to do the conversion for you or find someone with experience, preferably Fiero AC experience, to show you how. It's not rocket science, but simple mistakes can have expensive consequences. Another option is to enroll in an automotive AC class at your local community college (something I've done myself), and after successfully completing the course you may even be allowed to use their professional AC service equipment on your Fiero.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-04-2011).]

Actually, that's what I was planning on doing. I was going to replace all the parts and take it somewhere for the flushing and so forth. If I use a 134a compressor I don't need the Fiero store kit do I? Obviously A/C is NOT one of my strong informational areas.

Thanks for the replies.

[This message has been edited by raysr11 (edited 11-06-2011).]

You should add a post to the 3 other duplicate threads to post only to this thread not the others, it gets confusing.

If you plan on replacing the parts yourself and have a shop do the flush, vacuum, and charging, then it will take two trips to the shop, after removing old parts first trip to shop for flush, then back home to insall the new parts, then second trip to shop for vacuum and charge. In Marvin's post above he mentions removing all the old parts, then flushing, then installing all the new parts and lubricant to create a totally sealed system, then deep-vacuum, lastly charge with r134a.

I searched here on PFF and read all threads on r134a conversions and with all the info and help on this forum was able to complete the conversion. Randye posted alot of info on this thread //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107037.html which is very helpful to alot of fiero owners, has pics, tips and part #'s. Thanks randye!

Taking a look at the pic of TFS #26240 it looks like it contains a bottle of lubricant, set of green HNBR o-rings, set of metal compressor sealing washers, set of conversion fittings for high and low side ports. The new compressor will come with the sealing washers if needed, but you will still need all the parts for the conversion, and they can be purchased separately from other sources TFS just packages them together. Randye's post has a list with almost all the parts, with #'s and costs.

Marvin is correct, it's not rocket science. If you take your time, not rush and do research, did I mention not rush, a person with common sense and good mechanical skills can tackle the job. Having the job done by a shop is less hassle, less chance of mistakes, and alot quicker( no learning curve for them), but if you tackle the job yourself you have a new skill and better yet NEW TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by speed1 (edited 11-05-2011).]

quote Originally posted by speed1: ... if you tackle the job yourself you have a new skill and better yet NEW TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. I forgot to mention that the two essential tools needed to do the job yourself ... correctly ... are a manifold gauge set and a deep-vacuum pump. If you time it correctly (and now is probably a good time) you can buy both tools from Harbor Freight for about $100 to $120. That's what I use. They're not professional quality, but they're perfectly adequate for home shop use.

I also forgot to comment about service port conversion fittings. The EPA requires unique service port fittings for each refrigerant type, so R-134a fittings are different than the old R-12 fittings. Most R-134a conversion fittings just screw (permanently) onto the old R-12 fittings, but there are two subtypes. The type to use has its own replaceable Schrader valve and requires that you remove the old Schrader valve from the R-12 fitting ... pretty much like removing the core from a tire valve stem. The other type ... which you don't want ... just re-uses the Schrader valve in the old R-12 fitting. The problem with the latter type is that when (not if) the old Schrader valve eventually develops a leak there is no way to replace it, because the new adapter fitting is now in the way.

Thanks for all the information. I think my best route is to purchase the parts, where i can get a better price, then have a shop do the rest.

Thanks again.

quote Originally posted by raysr11: Thanks for all the information. I think my best route is to purchase the parts, where i can get a better price, then have a shop do the rest. Thanks again.

Might want to price out both. Plus some shops won't warantee their work if you brought your own part. I used Autozones compressors from a place called Compressor Works, they work well.

FWIW, Compressor Works is a US-based company and manufactures here, stateside.

Also as I noted earlier, Factory Aire manufactures HR6's stateside and the price ($112 after promo with free shipping) is hard to beat, from Advance.

Why not stick with R12? The cost difference isn't that much.

That's a good question. I just have seen many changing to 134a. I thought that was the way to go but, I don't know why.

Mostly because its hard to find R12 anywhere here, or a place that still has equipment to install it. Also once you switch future recharges are cheap and easy.

quote Originally posted by DJErikd: Why not stick with R12? The cost difference isn't that much.

Why not switch to R134a? The cooling performance for either is plenty for the Fiero's tiny cabin, and the refrigerant is much cheaper and easier to get.