My 94 Getrag 282 has a leaking driverside seal. I bought two new seals (in case i f***ed up one on install) and took the axle off this AM. When I pulled the axle, instead of a "axle seal" I found one of those aux bearing type of seal like RD used to sell. (the roller bearing kind) I checked his site first and found out that RD no longer sells them, and a google search found nothing. Two options, one is to remove the aux bearing seal, and put in one of the standard seals I bought, the other is to find a new roller bearing seal.

I never thought that the roller bearing seal was on the driverside but I had wanted to get one. Now im in a pickle. The car is jacked up, fluid leaking, no driverside axle and im sitting in the 95 deg heat pissed off.

Does anyone have any data on the bearing axle seal for the Getrag 282? Mine is a 94 year trans. Rodney Dickman has the picture of it on his website, but again, he no longer sells them.

also,

HOLY CRAP..... how the hell am I going to get that old bearing out. I watched the video on UTUBE showing the removeal of a "standard seal" but this thing is heavy duty. I don't think im going to be able to crush this thing to get it out, and I have no leverage in the area to get anything even close to it. Out of the car, it would be a breeze, but in the car it looks like its going to be a hell of a time.

I don't want to do anymore damage to the seal until I get more information, if I had to put it all together again i'd still be able to drive it, just it will still have a slow leak.

Thanks for any help.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 07-30-2011).]

Rodney sells the replacement seals for the add on bearing. He no longer offers the bearing though. Supposedly its a standard type seal though. You could also take the old seal to the parts store and have them find a replacement.

http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=28&products_id=268

You might want o give Rodney a call and see if he can give you a part number for the seal so you can pick it up locally. Might give you a chance to order something else you want from Rodney at the same time. Good luck!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 07-30-2011).]

Plus Why was PO need to add the bearing....
If aux bearing was added to "help" bearings inside then carrier bearing maybe be out the way out.
Mean you need to check/replace carrier bearings or new seal is least of your problem...

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

OK,
Thanks guys. Oger, the bearing was put on at Archies when he did my LS3 swap. Archie warned me about using a "used" trans, he cautioned me about it, and showed me the huge pile of trans he had from customer cars. I had no choice, I didnt have the extra for the F40 (wish I had now). Rob/Chris put in the aux bearings on both sides prior to installing the axles as part of the standard install.


while waiting for a reply, I continued to search the internet and finally hit the correct wording for my search, which lead me back to Pennocks. (yea Pennocks). I found this thred

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/110943.html

and my issue is this. Like the person in the above thread, my leaking is coming from around the rubber seal, not around the housing. In that thread GURU says that he has also had issues with them and that in high milage trans the axle moves around too much to "seal" on the seal. So with that knowledge, should I just install the stock bearing seal (no roller bearing) in the trans? If I used the stock replacement, do you all think that the softer rubber would "grab" the axle better and provide a better seal, or should I take my chances and put in a new roller bearing one and see if maybe I get a better seal.

I hate this, its flip a damn quarter time.

Thanks guys,

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 07-30-2011).]

Here are the part numbers if you want to replace just the bearing or the whole bearing/seal assembly for less.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Here is the axle stabilizer bearing (same for all manual tranny fieros). Techpack #75125LRB (replacement seal is TC-1.375). Price: $23.45 each + shipping from http://www.transmissionpart..._p/609-075125lrb.htm

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: HOLY CRAP..... how the hell am I going to get that old bearing out. I watched the video on UTUBE showing the removeal of a "standard seal" but this thing is heavy duty. I don't think im going to be able to crush this thing to get it out, and I have no leverage in the area to get anything even close to it. Out of the car, it would be a breeze, but in the car it looks like its going to be a hell of a time.

Slide hammer with proper bearing puller attachment.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Here are the part numbers if you want to replace just the bearing or the whole bearing/seal assembly for less. [QUOTE]Originally posted by fieroguru: Here is the axle stabilizer bearing (same for all manual tranny fieros). Techpack #75125LRB (replacement seal is TC-1.375). Price: $23.45 each + shipping from http://www.transmissionpart..._p/609-075125lrb.htm

[/QUOTE]

Yea GURU, I saw that thread, it led me to the part number. I also saw how you had used them and that they didn't work well for you either. I went to find this part (or a like part) at Advance and Auto Zone, neither had it or could find it.

I am just wondering if its worth it to pull this one off, put a new one on and hope for no leak. They started leaking at about 300 miles so its not worth all the BS to do this every 300 miles.

I put the stock non-bearing one on the end of the axle and it fits nice and tight. I know what the extra bearing is to assist the tripot but if the part is for the auto trans (125/440) is there any issues with using them in the Getrag. I know that its been done for a long time, so the answer is no.

Since the bearing is used on the auto trans, does the auto trans have less fluid at the end of the tripots? Why would the seal leak on a new part?

Anyone else have any advice.

Rob

It might be worth pulling the one in there out to make sure it was installed with the drain hole down. If the drain hole isn't pointing down, then there will be fluid constantly resting against the seal. Also, if you are running syncromesh, you might try switching back to 5 w30 which is thicker and less prone to small leaks.

Rob, I sent you an email & a PM to answer your pm's.

Remember when we put that car together initially, we found that the guy who rebuilt the transmission had a plugged vent tube on the trans?

Have you checked the vent again to see if it was plugged again?

Archie

edit to add....

BTW, the only way that seal could have worn out that quickly is if the Differential bearings in that transmission were not replaced by the guy who rebuilt it. They seemed to be ok when it was here before we installed it so, I'd look for another cause.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 07-30-2011).]

PM sent i have a pair of RD axle seal bearings brand new in the bag

Arch, yea I put a pipe cleaner in the hole every few months to keep it clear. Never had any plugs but I still do it becuse I don't want it getting clogged. The seal on the driverside is leaking, but one you put on the passenger side is nice and clean. The bearing/seal that you replaced on the pass side is diff than the one on the drivers. The pass side one is larger and has a dedicated seal that looks much better than the skinny driverside one. DO you recall what the pass side one was for? The two are differant. I recall you checking the size with some calipers because you had not used that one on a 5 spd getrag. Was/is it for the F40? If so, do you recall where you got it. Is that the Fireo Store one you mentioned?

I have removed just the seal from the pressed in bearing, i didn't know that the seal was a seperate part. I was thinking that the seal/bearing was all one part. I am going to order a few of the rubber seals on Monday. Hope I get them by Friday, because I have a car show to go to next weekend.

Thanks all for the help. This is one more reason that I should have went with the F40 and why im building a F23 soon.

Rob

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88 Coupe, CJB T-TOP, LS376 and a GT clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAH9yjw6XR0

For just the rubber seal for the add-on axle stabilizer, try Federal Mogul part number 323138. I think that was the one that fits. No guarantees, but worth a shot.

Edited to add: Make sure the axle itself is polished where it hits the seal. When these add-on bearings are installed, they push the rubber seal part out farther on the axle. Usually that part of the axle has surface rust, scum etc. If you didn't polish up the axle, it could have torn up the seal. (Yes, mine leaked, and no I didn't know to polish up the axle seal area first). Good luck

[This message has been edited by smartaxel (edited 07-31-2011).]

Hey Shawn, you F*cking Douche-Bag. If your reading this, I just wanted to pass to you some facts. You continue to post half the story, its the story that makes you feel good, but its not the truth. Someone told me that you had taken this thread of mine and again updated your RFT thread about my swap. So I checked it out, and YEP, you again only told half the story.

So if you have the balls to post any of this you can cut and paste it into your RFT thread.

Fact one: Archie did not have anything to do with the Transmission in my car. I purchased the trans from a member here on Pennocks. He answered my question about the EP LSD for the getrag. He told me he had a "newly rebuilt" 1994 "282" that had the EP LSD installed. Since I was on a time crunch, I purchased it from him, and sent it to Archie. It turned out after I purchased it from the guy, I contacted EP about the trans and the owner informed me that the trans was not "rebuilt", it was opend, the LSD installed and that was about it. So, I was "taken" by a member on Pennocks, not Archie.

Fact two: Archie did not have the 282 rebuilt, Cryo'd or in anyway assembled while at his shop. His crew took it out of the box, cleaned it, painted it and installed it on the 88 cradle that I sent to him. After install, we noticed a leak. He replaced the seals and the leak stopped. After I got the car home, I noticed a small leak on the drivers side seal, but it was a very slow leak. It took me over 1200 miles of driving before I pulled the axle to replace the seal. In that time, the fluid level never went below "add" on the dipstick, I just wanted to pull the axle to fix the problem.

So get your facts straight. You continue to "edit" my thread, only cutting out what will make your side of the story, but you don't have the balls to tell the complete story.

and for someone who hates Pennocks, and Archie, why do you spend some much of your pathedic life making up stories? If you took half your anger at Archie and put that into a Fiero, you'd have a nice car.

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 08-07-2011).]

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: ...Or another option would be to find a smaller axle shaft, about 1" smaller, and make a new axle assmy out of it. THis would pull the tripot end of the axle out more toward the driverside and that would put the seal into the "machined" porton of the tripot. ...

I don't think that's an option. When I seated my axle stubs in the tranny, there wasn't any real play to speak of. Once the clip expands on the back side of the side gear, it doesn't allow the axle to move around very much. Certainly not an inch.

I would be more inclined to try to burnish the part of the tripot where the seal is now riding.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-07-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I don't think that's an option. When I seated my axle stubs in the tranny, there wasn't any real play to speak of. Once the clip expands on the back side of the side gear, it doesn't allow the axle to move around very much. Certainly not an inch. I would be more inclined to try to burnish the part of the tripot where the seal is now riding.

After the "C" clip expands, its in, but nothing keeps it from being pushed in further. In theory, if the motor is installed 1" to the driver side over stock, then the axle would be "1" shorter. If the stock axle was used, that 1" would have to come from somewhere. I believe that the axle tripot end is being pushed in further than it should. Forcing the seal to contact the tripot end in an area that it was not meant to. Hence, the leak. This is just a theroy, and I have not measured anything.

rob

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: After the "C" clip expands, its in, but nothing keeps it from being pushed in further. In theory, if the motor is installed 1" to the driver side over stock, then the axle would be "1" shorter. If the stock axle was used, that 1" would have to come from somewhere. I believe that the axle tripot end is being pushed in further than it should. Forcing the seal to contact the tripot end in an area that it was not meant to. Hence, the leak. This is just a theroy, and I have not measured anything. rob

That 1" is taken up by the tripot joint itself. The joint telescopes to account for changes in axle length with wheel movement.

I do not think the tripods can go inside the transmission any further. I am pretty sure the spline end would hit the spider gear cross shaft inside the differential.

The tripod housing (while stationary to the transmission) will allow the tripod rollers on the axle shaft to slide in and out as the suspension moves up and down. Depending on the style some tripods can have upwards of 1 1/2" of plunge depth. If you are concerned that your tripod rollers might be too close to bottoming out inside the tripod housing, with the suspension at ride height, remove the axle nut at the wheel bearing, measure how much the threaded shaft is protruding from the wheel bearing and then push it all the way in until it bottoms out in the tripod housing, measure again. The distance is the available room within the tripod assembly, and this number should be about 1/2" to avoid binding.

Guru,
I agree about the spline end hitting the spider gear cross shaft. If you look into the end of my trans after the axle is pulled out, you can see a small area on the cross shaft that looks like something has touched it. It has a small spot that looks like it's been rubbed. It does not look bad, but I did notice that it was there. That tells me that the tripot end is going in too far.

I also noticed that when the tire is off, and the car jacked up, the rubber boot is "normal" (not compressed/extended). When the tire is on, and the suspension under load, the rubber boot is pushed all the way in the closed position, and when looked at from above, the tripot is about one inch closer to the trans case, than a stock driver-side axle. I never noticed this before, but after I had an issue on this side, I have been paying more attention to it.

I drew up this picture of what is going on.




In the first picture, a "normal" tripot is shown, with a normal axle seal in the middle of the machined portion of the tripot. I call this normal because it is how the stock 88 axle was in the stock 5 speed trans. The second drawing shows how my tripot is, how its pushed all the way in. The bearing/seal is shown and the tripot end is forced all the way up to the seal, and is contacting the tripot in the area that is not machined smooth. My concern is am I getting all the spline area or have I pushed the tripot end through the spline (only getting 80-90% surface)? Not sure.

Bottom line, my tripot end is in too far. It may not be bottoming out (inside) but for whatever reason, the tripot is pushed in and the seal end of the bearing is pressed up to the tripot. If I could pull it out about ¼ inch, the seal would be making contact with the machined end of the tripot, vice the rusted, non machined end. When you look at it compared to another "Stock" car, its real easy to see.

I know that Rob/Chris did measure this during install. I was standing next to Archie when he asked them for the amount of travel each axle had, and when they talked about it, the amount was within spec.

Off hand, do you know if a Cobalt Axle is shorter than the Fiero's? I was talking to "Dobey" about this on Sunday and he seems to recall the Cobalt Axle is shorter. If I had a shorter axle to put into the tripot, that would force the tripot out about an inch, that would put the seal in the best spot.

Lucky for me, the axle seal only drips a few drops of fluid, and I have 3 more seals if I need to replace them.

I'll figure it out in the end.

Rob

Hopefully these pics will help explain why your tripod can not be pushed in the transmission too far... This is an 86 Getrag with the axle stabilizers and the tape measure is up against the spider gear pin. Right at 3" deep to the edge of the stabilizer bearing.

Here is a stub shaft I cut off an axle tripod housing a while back. It is about 3 1/16" long and notice the snap ring was removed so it can slide in and out of the transmission freely:



With it installed and bottomed out notice that it barely clears the stabilizer bearing:


Now compared to a stock 86 driver side tripod. Notice the shaft length is about 1/8" longer before the cage starts:


Fiero axle installed with the c-clip in place. It still has the extra 1/8" in length vs. the stub w/o the c-clip.


The other thing to notice about the spline shaft is the splines are recessed below the rest of the shaft, so the differential splines will not allow the shaft to pass through, so there is no way for you to have less than 100% engagement due to the tripod housing being installed too far, and the C-clip locks the housing in place very close (within 1/16") to the maximum allowable depth.

I am not exactly sure where your transmission bellhousing face is placed, but I think it is about 7" from the cradle centerline. The last 88 Getrag transmission placement I measured was 5", so I suspect your transmission is about 2" further to the driver side. A stock fiero DS axle is:


I ran my 88 SBC swap for years with the transmission at 5 1/2" with factory axles, so you would need an axle that ideally is 2" shorter, but 1 1/2" would work.
The shortest off the shelf GM axle with the right tripod and CV splines to slide into place on a fiero is the Corsica passenger axle for the 4 speed auto post 1996 shown here:


It is 1 7/16" shorter which is very close to the 1 1/2 you should need. If you verify that it does not bind during full suspension travel, it will work just fine.

Now back to your seal leak... take a pic of your tripod installed on the transmission so we can see how close it actually is. I suspect the corsica tripod housing is a little tighter to the transmission as that is what was cut up to make my stub axle. If that is the case, the actual axle shaft splines are the same between the corsica shaft and fiero shaft, so you can swap the tripod rollers/tripod housing to the fiero tripod rollers/housing and that should give you the needed room for the seal (after you polish up the seal surface). Now doing this swap might make the axle bind, so you would want to check for that before calling it good.

Guru,
As usual, great info. Thanks a bunch for taking the time to do all this work, and the pictures are awesome. Everything you posted makes sense, and I'll have to mess with this over the weekend (don't get enough time after work during the week). So if I don't get back with you on this for a few days, don't think i'm not greatful.

i'll see about some pics, but from what I recall, the last pic you included (just before the two axle pics) is about what mine looks like, except I think im about 1-2mm closer. Could just be the angle im seeing it at, but either way, im sure the rubber gasket is contacting that small area where the end starts to widen out. just like in your pic, that area is not machined smooth, and is just a little rusty.

I was not sure if the axle stub end could go in more than 100%, I was picturing in my head the spline's and how they interact with each other. I was not sure if after the two parts engage each other if they can be pushed past each other. Thanks for explaining that. And I did understand that the stub end could only go in so far before the larger portion "bottoms out" on the trans case, so that either way, it can only go in so far.

Agian, this will get fixed and I couldn't do it without all the help on the forum.

BIG THANKS TO CLIFF, for keeping this fourm going after all these years.

Rob

[This message has been edited by qwikgta (edited 08-09-2011).]