I am at work, Working all weekend, have been working for 25 hours straight on my car giving it a manual transmission. Went to bleed the clutch, all hell broke loose. No new parts. First I did the factory method, no go... so I did the Archie Method... it ended up sucking air through the salve cylinder seals and made the pedal worse. I finally have all the air out of the system... it does not travel far enough to release the clutch? is there something I am missing? I pushed the piston in expecting to find more air leaked by the seals and nope! nothing there! I am currently trying to re-gravity bleed it... But is there a way to easily fix a Getrag slave cylinder? like, O-Ring its seal to make it until I get a new slave later this week? This car needs to leave TODAY. it is my ride home....
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08:33 AM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Pump the clutch pedal several times and it will disengage. Not a great fix but it might be enough to get you home. Be ready blip the gas and pop the shifter out of gear when you have to stop. Also remember you can always turn the key off to stop the engine.
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08:42 AM
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
I just measured my clutch throw... its around 7/8" I checked the pedal and its straight, and I been running around trying to find a slave but all aftermarket ones are special order.... I do not know if it will disengage when I pump it fast, but we will find out in just a few
edit: it does not disengage when I pump it rapidly
[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 06-12-2011).]
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08:48 AM
imacflier Member
Posts: 946 From: Levittown, NY, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I personally have had success with a slightly different method of bleeding the clutch system. I use a clear or translucent hose that allows me to see air bubbles. Here is what I do:
1. I put one end of the hose on the bleed nipple and place the other end in a container that has some old brake fluid already in it. The end in the brake fluid must be submerged.
2. I crack open the bleed screw and make sure the master cylinder is topped off.
3. I slowly pump the clutch pedal 3 times. Top off the master cylinder then go to the back and check the hose. Repeat until there is no more air in the hose.
4. Close the bleed screw and take the hose off.
This one man method works because so long as the other end of the hose is submerged, no air can get sucked back into the system.
the slave boot was dry on the inside, however i could hear it "sucking" every time it was released. I had run a new clutch line, and it was only a 3/16" line, so I ran around the shop and found a perfect length roll of 1/4" line, and I modded the origonal 6mm line nuts to fit the 1/4" line... and did the worlds dirtiest clutch line replacement. Then I also popped the slave out, popped its piston, inserted an O Ring behind the lip of the lip seal, and reinstalled it. It doesnt slide easy anymore, and the internal spring doesnt automatically pop it full extended anymore when it is out, but after an initial test, it no longer sucks air. I do not trust this fast fix, but its something to get me home. Going on 30 hours of working on this trans swap. Got myself a few energy drinks to keep me going... the shop is a mess, and damn I gotta clean the WHOLE thing once at least one of my Fieros are out of here. I still got to put a cradle in the one I scavanged parts from and make it a roller before tomorrow morning... I think I will sleep till midnight or 1AM when I am done my daily driver, then clean from 1-2AM - opening time. Then hopefully not get yelled at for not having the time to finish everything :P
EDIT: Unsure if the fix worked yet, gravity bleeding and getting energy to continue
[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 06-12-2011).]
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11:07 AM
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
still a no go. I can start it and run it in gear but if I am off the brake it creeps forward and it slips the clutch. Pedal sits 1/2-3/4" above the brake pedal. absolutely NO air coming out of the slave cyl, done it archie's method multiple times. Tried to bend the pedal but its really really stiff I cant get anything in there strong enough without pulling the pedal assembly back out. it might not be pushing the master in far enough, because it seems like with a bit more pedal travel it won't have the clutch engaged. HOWEVER the car it was in before ran and drive fine. So a bent pedal isnt likely. However something messed up in my install maybe is to blame. Anything I should look for?
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12:02 PM
Gall757 Member
Posts: 10938 From: Holland, MI Registered: Jun 2010
This is a new install that has never worked right I assume? It could be that your clutch pedal is bent and you cannot un-bend it in the car. You can do a work-around with an adjustable banjo. Do you have any play at the top of the clutch swing?
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12:09 PM
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
This is a new install that has never worked right I assume? It could be that your clutch pedal is bent and you cannot un-bend it in the car. You can do a work-around with an adjustable banjo. Do you have any play at the top of the clutch swing?
new install on this car yes, but I had it in another car that I drove in (spun bearing and trashed body) that I used as a donor car. Clutch was great in there, I put it in my other Fiero and suddenly not working? doesnt seem right. I may pull the pedal now and bend it even if it isn't bent so it pushes the master further. no amount of bleeding is working. Gone through like 2qts at least of brake fluid in bleeding.
And yes if I take the master pushrod off it has another 1/2 or so inch of play, if not more, until the pedal tops out. I am going to remove it now (its not too hard to... other than that stupid harness that the brackets catch on) and just beat it into submission with a BFH till it looks like it will push the master further in.
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12:26 PM
Four_hundred_86 Member
Posts: 656 From: West/Central Texas Registered: Oct 2008
pedal was not bent. I gave it a couple whacks to take out the slack in the pedal at the top. Now it sits perfectly at its upper stopping point. still no good on clutch operation. Is there supposed to be something in the release lever that I am missing? Maybe a nylon bushing is supposed to be there and it fell out without me noticing?
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01:35 PM
imacflier Member
Posts: 946 From: Levittown, NY, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Well, this is a kind of desperation fix, but it sounds like you have done most everything else. You can put an isuzu slave on instead of the Getrag slave. Since it is a smaller diameter piston than the getrag, you will pick up nearly 1/2" more throw than you currently have. If I recall correctly, you must remove the studs from the isuzu slave and drill the holes out for bolt clearance, that is just about all the mods required.
G'Luck and don't give up! Larry
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01:51 PM
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
im throwing things now. I had a little trick to try and pick up that last little bit of travel and it failed. A spacer in the release lever. Instead of travelling further, it travels the same distance, the pushrod wont go out further than that. Same exact problems. now this must mean there is air somewhere in that system... but where?! I slave bled about 1200234 times, every time I crack a bleeder now its clear and no air. I know I am getting vacuum now too unlike before. So does anyone have a trick up their sleeves? I pushed in the slave as instructed to by archie, held it, and all that fun stuff. maybe if I jack the rear of the car way up??? or tilt it to one side? advice would be helpful.
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02:22 PM
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
update: got a clutch master and slave, bled with Rodney's vacuum hose to the engine tactic. Worked great... sadly clutch STILL will not disengage. Damaged pressure plate? I actually have to drop the cradle... AGAIN?!!! and spend another 140usd on a clutch kit?! im not a happy boy. I never bought a pressure plate, I just used the old one. maybe it diddn't like changing owners? I hear nothing wrong from inside the bellhousing...
EDIT: Just thought, is there a way to take the transmission out without dropping the cradle, to do a clutch? Maybe 4 pogo jacks to lower the cradle and tilt it? with engine support jig? or? I will have to look at ALLDATA real quick. I been up WAY too long, I think its just about time to say "screw it, take a loaner home, sleep, deal with it tomorrow on company time and not get paid"
EDIT 2:
I think I know what I did... after searching... Clutch Plate on backwards.... I was rushing the thing so much, I may have completely overlooked that. I NEVER REMEMBER CHECKING! Looks like I am working late tonight again. Think I can make it 48 hours no sleep? First, I need to tidy the shop. Don't need to make messes with fluids anymore, time to make the shop pretty. Then maybe nap in the back room (lol) before pulling the cradle without dropping the engine. If I go into work hours tomorrow, I'll just order a new clutch, might as well..... should only take a couple hours, if that, to get the trans out. A couple hours and a bad back <_<
[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 06-12-2011).]
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07:34 PM
Jun 13th, 2011
Racing_Master Member
Posts: 1460 From: Hooksett, NH, USA Registered: Nov 2007
Just got the pressure plate off and... yep.... Backwards. Even can see a small wear mark where it was touching the spring in the clutch disk. Oops. Well lesson learned... don't rush... I know I learned this lesson millions of times, whats one more time?
