What grade fuel is reccomended to use for the 2.8 v-6? I've been using 87 Regular, but someone said higher like premium would be better. Would love to know what everyone else is using.

What does the 88 Getrag manual tranny's oil fill cap on top look like. I think the one on mine is the wrong one, because its sitting in the hole really loosely and some oil has come out. A picture or description of it would be great.

My fuel injectors get dirty really fast, and then the car accelerates all slow like. Some injector cleaner makes everything good again, but only for about 500 miles when they get dirty again. I don't want to buy cleaner that much, and the injectors work great once cleaned so I think there is no permanent filth requiring them to be taken out or replaced. What is causing them to dirty so quickly though? Should I clean the fuel tank and replace the filter again?Would the Fiero Factory's engine cleaner stuff work? Some Advice Please. Thanks.

Best gas? Cheapest. 87 octane is what the car wants midgrade or premium is for turbo, supercharged and high compression cars only. using it in a stock fiero is wasting money. and contrary to myth, premium gas is NOT better gas or has more additives.. it has more ETHANOL in it. Premium gas has a solid 10% ethanol in it to give it a octane boost.

Here are some questions and answers that will give you a better understanding of high octane gasoline:

What are octane ratings? Octane ratings will tell you how resistant the fuel is to burning. When compressed, it should not ignite on its own. The timing is important, and it is taken into consideration when the rating is determined. Usually, filling stations offer 3 grades of octane, which are prominently displayed on bright yellow stickers. Regular fuel has 87 octane, mid-grade is usually 89 octane, and premium is 92 or 93 octane.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better? As a matter of fact, it does not make your car perform any better than the regular octane gasoline. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has made it mandatory that engine-cleaning detergents be added to ALL GRADES of fuel so that there will be no build-up of deposits from the natural process of fuel combustion.


Are you removing and inspecting the injectors to verify they are getting dirty? A lot of things can cause the symptoms you mention and rarely are getting dirty and clean up instantly with miracle in a bottle stuff. I also though that 1988 they used disc type injectors instead of pintle type. Disc type injectors are self cleaning. You mention "replace fuel filter again" when did you replace it last?

Injector cleaner will not work instantly, so if you see a change the second you put it in the tank then it is something else causing the problem.

you need more information than "accelerates all slow like" This has no details. Do you mean that instead of taking 10 seconds to get to 60mph it takes 2 minutes and chokes and gags with a misfire? or it "seems" like ti takes a little longer? you need to time out a 0-60 or a 0-50 when you feel it's running good and when it's not. seat of the pants "feel" is not accurate and will make you chase phantom gremlins.

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Get your copy of the Fiero 25th Anniv book at http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/349809

Best RV, Camper, and Trailer dealer in West Michigan. http://www.cliffstrailersales.com and he's a fiero owner too!

The 2.8 was designed to run on 89 octane gas....which is now Mid grade. Back then there was no 87. so this may also be an issue about your injectors....The engine should burn more completely with better gas and maybe the injectors will stay cleaner.

as for the tranny plug...that rubber seal shrinks over time....it's a common problem.

I was buying 87 octane gas in 1986 They certainly were selling it.

Also the fiero manual specifically states on page 2-4 to use 87 octane and says you can use 85 octane in high altitudes.
It also states on that page that using gasoline with up to 10% ethanol is Safe to use as well.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-14-2011).]

Fuel filter was replaced a few months ago and after that I gave up on trying to clean the system, havent put cleaner in for months either. As for the acceleration lag, the engine boggs, making a fluttering sound, like if the exhaust pipes were under water. Power is not on demand either, however these affects only take place until 3000 RPM, then once it hits 3000, power is strong and I am thrown back in my seat if I keep the pedal as far as I did to get moving when below 3000 RPMs. Also up slight hills at about fifty 2200 RPM there is insufficient power so I must shift into 4, whereas when cleaned with the pour in the tank stuff it does these minor hills in 5th no problem. another thing it tends to do when this problem is in effect is shake or buck, which I thought shows a lean fuel mix. The cleaner stuff usualy gets things to normal in about 2-5 minutes of driving. what may the problem be if it isn't the injectors? The whole lagging acceleration thing makes driving not much fun, like driving an old lady car. It has also brought my fuel economy down about 3-4 MPG because I have to get to 3-3500 RPM before shifting instead of 2500 as before. A friend suggested that there may be water build up in the tank. Any other ideas based on this description would be great. Thanks.

Next million dollar question since I live in the same state as you.....has it passed smog running this bad?

Yeah, somehow it passed. Had to pay $300+ in repairs first, but they got it to pass. And the EGR was totally severed at the time, idled at 2500. Thats been fixed by now. No idea how they passed its smog. I've only owned the car since August, thats when it was last smogged. May not pass noe, I don't know.

Wow, this story reminds me of my Mazda 626 which I recently diagnosed - and fixed -

Here's the symptoms.

The car would occasionally idle rough... ok, more than occasionally. It would probably be more accurate to say the engine occasionally idled fine. Looking at the Tac, the RPMs would drop about 100 down, as the engine stumbled upon itself, and quickly recover. From the sounds of things, it would do this through acceleration too, Since I was getting very little power with the throttle, however after a few thousand RPM, the car would run perfectly fine, all the power I needed, and then some. until I came to a stop, which would start the whole process over again, with the stumbling and loss of power, etc.

This started last year and in a first effort to find the problem, I changed my plugs... This helped, but obviously, the issue returned. The plugs weren't doing good anyways, and had to be changed, after getting them out, I realized that (I havn't owned the car a HUGE amount of time)... anyways, I think that in regards to my issue, pulling everything apart and putting it back together both helped, and hurt the issue. I eventually checked the resistance of my spark plug wires... I couldn't get a reading from cyl 1, so I pulled cyl 3 right next to it and tested that. Sure enough, I got a reading. The problem wasn't in my technique, it was in the fact that the plug wire was basically toast.

Through the process of debugging this however, I was given a lot of options and possibilities of what it COULD have been, I'll share that in a second... I want to say this first; popped in new NGK plug wires to compliment my new NGK plugs (that were installed late last year), and the car runs like a champ again.

With that said, A friend who is a mechanic, had a similar problem with his Ford Escort, his issue however was that the Gas vapor reclaim was stuck open, causing, essentially, an internal vacuum leak in his engine, causing a rough idle and loss of performance. My 626's EGR has been defunct for a while now and I thought it may have been stuck open, which would cause the same problem. (un accounted for air in the intake manifold) Not as much of a problem on a Fiero because it uses the MAP sensor, not a MAF like my 626 or his Escort does. (though, it may, I'm not sure where everything connects and what the issue could be there.

Long story short, could be bad plugs, wires, bad timing, distributor, pickup coil, ICM, MAP, or just a vacuum leak. You've got a zebra!

But seriously, have you checked if the ECM has thrown any codes? there's a guide on youtube to check the codes on a Fiero by jumping some pins in the center console, and watching the Check Engine light while turning the ignition to "on" (without turning on the engine).... look into it, report back with codes.

in the 88 manual it says " you.. MAY ..use properly blended fuels that contain 10% or ...LESS ....ethanol, and still be covered by the New vehicle and emission control systems warranties. p2-4

p2-3 You SHOULD use unleaded fuel with an octane rating of at...LEAST... 87.
makes the 89 look a little better??


I can tell you from 35 years of boat ownership ethanol does not help your engine,injectors,fuel tank,pump etc.
it is alcohol.. it attracts moisture..."WATER"
get a bottle of x2 or startron, add it , and go for a 2 hour drive

quote Originally posted by wesailit57: in the 88 manual it says " you.. MAY ..use properly blended fuels that contain 10% or ...LESS ....ethanol, and still be covered by the New vehicle and emission control systems warranties. p2-4 p2-3 You SHOULD use unleaded fuel with an octane rating of at...LEAST... 87. makes the 89 look a little better??

Nope, still doesn't make using 89 octane any better. It still does not change the fact that the Fiero 2.8 V6 was not designed for higher octane fuels. Shave the heads to give it more compression? yes, add a turbo? yes! add a supercharger? YES!!

Use it because it's "better" gas? that's simply misinformation.

There is one other time to use premium gas. your car has a major timing problem and is pinging or has ignition knock. Switch to premium in order to get rid of that ping and knock UNTIL you can get the car repaired.

http://www.cartalk.com/cont...s/premium/myths.html for a great list of facts and myths about gasoline octane and grades.

http://www.epinions.com/content_2346164356 another one that has a great article about gasoline facts.

It is a disservice to tell people that running 87 octane is "dirty" or not good gasoline and premium is better, don't feel bad though. Most people including a LOT of professional mechanics know absolutely nothing at all about gasoline and assume based on the label that "premium" means better. It's a marketing trick to make people assume and buy a more expensive product they do not need.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-15-2011).]

OK, Mr. Gray, let's all buy into what you are saying. It's easy for me to accept that Big Oil might not be completely honest.

So Liv4God has a car that is having trouble and it's not the gasoline. I have had similar problems with my car, and buying 89 octane gas has fixed the problem. Would this happen merely because the previous tankful was bad gas?....in other words, it didn't mater that I bought 89 octane, any re-fill would have fixed the problem? And what about cleaning injectors?....why would that be necessary so often?

quote Originally posted by Gall757: OK, Mr. Gray, let's all buy into what you are saying. It's easy for me to accept that Big Oil might not be completely honest. So Liv4God has a car that is having trouble and it's not the gasoline. I have had similar problems with my car, and buying 89 octane gas has fixed the problem. Would this happen merely because the previous tankful was bad gas?....in other words, it didn't mater that I bought 89 octane, any re-fill would have fixed the problem? And what about cleaning injectors?....why would that be necessary so often?

Have you done anything to check the timing? what codes does it throw? have you pulled the codes? There still is not enough information to diagnose the problems via a message board.

If you see a change when you go to a higher octane gas, then it's pointing to timing issues or that it is leaning out. when was the last time you set the timing on your car? What is your fuel pressure at? Failing O2 sensor can do this as well causing the car to run lean.

http://youtu.be/3CzDk9wswG4

http://youtu.be/crzwJ8N2v48

for how to set the timing correctly if you have not done it.

If you see improvements with a higher octane gas then you need to listen for pinging or knock in your engine. if you hear that as well with the proper gasoline then you have verified there is a timing issue.

also sensors going bad can also cause timing issues, only way to completely check is to do a diagnostic run with the winALDL

http://winaldl.joby.se/ for winALDL.. you can buy a ALDL cable or if you can use a soldering iron you can build one for a lot cheaper.

And the "lets all buy into what I am saying" feel free to ignore all the facts I have presented, I have given links that back me up as reference and can supply 40 more with scientific data if someone is really interested, and simple searches on google to learn gasoline chemestry will also support what I am saying as well as any college professor you meet that is a hydrocarbon chemist. start here for some real propeller head information about gasoline octane... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/


Gasoline octane ratings only mean how fast it burns, this is as true as the earth is round.... but there are people that still believe that the sun revolves around the earth and we faked the moon landings..

As for the injectors getting dirty easy. 99% of all the fiero owners do not have a problem with the injectors getting dirty every 500 miles. So unless you buy gas from a station that adds dirt and gunk in it and your fuel filter is actually bad and ruptured to allow the gasoline to not be filtered by the filter media, it's not the injectors getting dirty. Only other option is that the fuel line from the filter to the fuel rail is so gunked up from sitting for a decade with bad gas in it and it's constantly scuffing off and dropping chunks in the injectors. only solution there is a fuel system teardown and cleaning, but this is incredibly unlikely because it is a wild speculation tangent.

Your fuel filter is a very effective filter, it's not a window screen to just keep the big chunks out. and yes you could have a LOT of water in your tank, but that does not make it run bad all the time.. it makes it feel like it's running out of gas and suddenly starts back up again. a few bottles of "dry gas" will solve it, best is to drop the tank and empty/clean it.

The fact remains, you can not diagnose a car problem without running all the proper tests and having as much information as possible. you need to take the time and effort to run all the tests. In fact you dont even need to understand what the winALDL program tells you, post the logs from that here and there are several of us that will gladly look it over and tell you what we all see.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 05-15-2011).]

Thanks for your kind offer....perhaps Liv4God will take you up on it, but I think in my case, I will buy 89 octane gas and be done with it.

I'm going to download the winALDL program tomarrow and build myself the cable. I've been wanting to get a system to diognose the ECM for a while, and this is perfect! I'm not sure when I'll actually get to diognosing, since I don't have much time until school is out. Luckily next week is the last week and then I will have time to do any overdue maintenence. I'll probably drop the fuel tank and clean it too since I haven't done so before. I'll check the fuel pump too for any wear or signs of needed replacement. I will probably replace the plug wires since the ones on mine are kind of funky anyway. I'll post the results from the winALDL, hopefully this weekend, but for sure no later than the next weekend. Thanks for the advice.

quote Originally posted by wesailit57: I can tell you from 35 years of boat ownership ethanol does not help your engine,injectors,fuel tank,pump etc. it is alcohol.. it attracts moisture..."WATER" get a bottle of x2 or startron, add it , and go for a 2 hour drive

Alcohol attracting water? That's a good one. I'll remember the next time I have a hangover, it's because I'm too hydrated from the alcohol attracting all that water.

Alcohol is a dessicant. Not sure where you were seeing more water at in your system, but it didn't simply come from the ethanol being there. Rather, some issues may have occured due to ethanol causing water to separate that was in in the rest of the fuel, or is getting into it by some other means. There's a reason that the Federal regulations on what cars can claim to run on E85, as they must have composite fuel tanks, and other special equipment, due to the cleaning and dessicant properties of ethanol.

Have always used regular gas. 87gt

My Cad and Astro both call for premium gas..but both manuals say 87 or 89 is OK. They run just fine on 87. I occasionally put some premium in. As long as there is no pinging (spark knock) I dont worry about it.

Replace your fuel pump, including the "sock" on it.

To all here....I'm 40 years old...There was a time noone had to worry about octane...everything was 100 and we all had motors that were at least 300ci for the most part...since the advent of FI. Motors have become smaller and higher compression...the stock engines in our little toys are all 23 plus years old now and many suffer from valve build up....this will cause your compression to raise enough to need an 89 octane fuel...but originally no... GM specified 87

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87 GT...SBC...Fast as hell

I made the cable connector that is shown on the winALDL site that hooks into the computer, but I don't know where the other end hooks up or what type of connector it needs to hook to the ECM. There was a picture, But I couldn't tell where or what was used. A picture or good description would help a lot. Then I could diognose tomarrow maybe, Thanks.

Recently Ive had issues with performance, sputtering along and occasional backfires on the highway. I pulled into a full service station and filled up, the guy put in 87. I normally run 93 when it isnt completely rrediculous in price. My issue was solved because my fiero simply hates 87 and 89. Runs perfect, idles better and everything on 93.

You found someone to pump your gas?

Seriously though....you can spend hundreds of dollars on your engine so it will run on 87.

Back in the day when Sunoco 190 was around, it was 85 octane, I think. I used to run it in my 87 GT with no issues. Of course it was "pure gas, no ethanol.

Never mind, I found the connection thing behind the cover with the cigarette lighter. Now the only problem is that lap top doesn't have DB9 connection and the computer that does is stuck about 100 ft away from the car. Well I'll think of something. It seems the car is running WAY too rich. It shows similar signs that my radio controlled nitro Traxxas Stampede shows when too rich. Also my gas milage is down to 16 mpg! I used to get about 25.

Did you check spark system? I thought I had an issue with something in the fuel system but it ended up being spark (ICM).

Dobey - Alcohol acts as a dessicant by attracting the water.............

Two glasses of water before bed after drinking can reduce the dehydration headache...........
as can not drinking too much.

Two of the spark plugs keep fouling, and I'm pretty sure those two injectors are bad, puting out too much. Had my friend check the emmissions, really rich output. Changed the two bad plugs again. Runs a little bettrer, but I'm going to replace the injectors. I'm going to get the Accel injectors that Fiero store carries. I found some for $ 250 new. Tomarrow's the last day of school, then I'll have time to fix.

What kind of fouling?

Oil?

Rich?

What color is the ceramic down inside the barrel of the plug?

Bad wires can cause fouling due to low spark energy/poor combustion.

Replace the wires on those two plugs and see what happens before throwing $250 on new injectors.

Yeah I replaced my stock wires with Accell 8.8mm wires and its run great for 10 years. It dosent sound like its the injectors are you always filling up at the same place? Remember what they say if the fuel truck is pulling out dont pull in. When they fill up the tanks alot of crap gets mixed into the gas and needs to settle back to the bottom.