i just changed my side marker lites to led and rehabed my rear tail light housing and cleaned the bulbs. i was thinking of led for the tail light bulbs and front blinkers. led are not cheep, i am asking are thay worth it. my car has the original bulbs in it. 194, 1156, 2057

Put LEDs in a 63 MG. I used the kind built around the standard 1056/57 base. They had, if I remember, 20 LEDs. No, they were not worth the expense. better to get silverstar bulbs.
I actually got stopped by the po po because he couldn't see my brake lights

Now, if you buy LED boards designed for your particular car-maybe. Universal fit-nope, IMHO

It depends on the style you get.

The "SMD" style with wide angle LEDs are pretty good and are bright enough to be safe. I had them in a camaro and they were extremely bright. Make sure to match the color to the lens, though (don't put a white LED behind a red lens - doesn't work well at all).

If you want to replace the 194-base bulbs, the 180 degree wide-firing 1 watt bulbs are good and are at least as bright as a standard 194/168 bulb.

It depends on what you want out of the LED. Why are you going with LED? They will cost much more than a standard bulb and typically aren't as bright. Really good, bright LEDs get expensive quick.

On my 2000 TA, I recently converted the DRLs to LED because the DRL being on all the time was causing heat damage to the socket and housing. I lost a bit of brightness, but it fixed the heat problem. To me, that was worth it. I haven't changed any others over because regular incandescent bulbs work fine.

On my '88 Fiero, I recently put on LED side marker lights. This was solely an aesthetic change since I think they look better. These are brighter than the stock 192 bulbs because there's 9 LEDs along the entire length of the side marker, not just 1 in the center. Again, this was worth it to me because I had a specific goal in mind that these addressed.

I started down this trail about two years ago.

Changed the front #1157 lamps to LED lamps.
Then I changed the flasher unit, from the stock "Thermal" flasher, to an electronic LED compatible unit.
I went to change the rear bulbs to #1157's and got some wierd feedback and everything quit working.
Apparently there needs to be a rectifier bridge circiut adapter built and wired in, to make it work properly.

I have noticed that leaving the front lamps in, makes the dashboard turn signal indicators glow, when the headlamps are turned on.

The front turn signals are kind of a "bright spot" in the middle of a yellow sea. Does not really light up the entire signal bezel.
In strong daylight, the signal isn't really as bright as the original tungsten filament lamp/lens/reflector was.

Might change it back, to prevent a left hand turn / head on collision.

Unless I find some kind of multiple LED board unit, that is brighter.
Then I will keep them.

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Marko.

'85 SE 2M6 Muncie 4 speed.
a.k.a "The Rumble Seat"

[This message has been edited by Marko (edited 04-27-2011).]

Worth it? That really depends on you. If they are actually brighter then standard bulbs, I'm not sure. Generally I would say they are not brighter. The Orge's Cave has a good write up on using LED's and the problems with them.

With that being said though. Good quality LED's I think can be much brighter, seen at the proper angles and reflect properly. The LED's being talked about and used over at hidplanet (check them out here) are very good and I would consider a lot better then standard bulbs. But they are not cheap!

I have not used any personally but done a good amount of reading up on them. I have considered them. I think currently they are too expensive if you were to do the whole car. For non custom plug and play LED's that I would even consider are ~$70 a pair, and there is a lot of lights in the tail of the fiero.

I think a good place for them at the moment are is the side makers, because the single bulb doesn't spread light across the the whole reflector strip well. LED's would be good for turn signals in the mirrors. And I think a good place to start with replacing anything in the rear would be reverse lights, no worry about reflecting properly as you just need light behind you, you don't have to worry about colour and extra light behind the car would help with seeing at night.

i just did the 9 led side marker lights and am verry happy with them in fact tlg gave me a free guift for taking so long, 194 bulbs for the license plate and thay seem to be nice and bright. has anyone purchased any other replacement bulb from tlg. you are right there are lots of bulbs in a gt tail lights.

Using 1156 & 2057 drop-in LED? Likely No... Cheap LED you don't want for many reasons.... Using high dollar LED and doesn't match lens/filter cuts output same as cheap units.
See my cave, LED poisoning in lighting section.
See LED marker as well.

Save power? do some math... Not always a saving... Some LED setup uses more power to get same light output as normal bulbs. especially if LED have a mismatch color with lens.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

thank for all the answers, for now i will stick with regular light bulbs and save money.

I recently installed (universal) LED tail/brake lights in the wife's SUV. The work great and only caused the flashers to blink a little faster. My main concern was people tailgaiting would get a little more warning since LEDs light up so much quicker. I read a few years ago that this is one of the reason why automakers are using them in new cars. Personally I feel a little safety can't hurt, especially since Fieros are older and don't have the same level of support that some other cars have.

quote Originally posted by jim94: i just changed my side marker lites to led and rehabed my rear tail light housing and cleaned the bulbs. i was thinking of led for the tail light bulbs and front blinkers. led are not cheep, i am asking are thay worth it. my car has the original bulbs in it. 194, 1156, 2057

Nope, not yet. I have tried them all and the only ones that were as bright as regular bulbs cost me $40.00 each. At that point it's crazy expensive to buy 8 of them for the tail lights.

They were 5 Watt led with a wide angle to fill all the housing with light and a heat sink, they barely fit through the bulb hold.

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Get your copy of the Fiero 25th Anniv book at http://www.blurb.com/bookstore/detail/349809

Best RV, Camper, and Trailer dealer in West Michigan. http://www.cliffstrailersales.com and he's a fiero owner too!

The 1 watt 180 degree LEDs on eBay (with the built in heat sink) are about $2, including shipping. These are marginally brighter than stock 194 bulbs, IMO.

Where are you paying $40 per bulb? that's just crazy.

quote Originally posted by masospaghetti: The 1 watt 180 degree LEDs on eBay (with the built in heat sink) are about $2, including shipping. These are marginally brighter than stock 194 bulbs, IMO. Where are you paying $40 per bulb? that's just crazy.

Those are not brighter than a stock bulb. it may look it at night, but when it counts, daytime in the bright sunlight, they are far dimmer than a stock bulb. I even used 3 watt prototypes from 2 years ago that were being tested for brightness and they are still dimmer than a stock bulb, I posted photos that proved it.

I am buying real Cree 5 watt assemblies for Automotive use from an automotive supplier (no you cant buy these at Autozone, you have to be an automotive company to get them) from a friend that works for GM. If your tail lights are not designed for LED then you will always be behind the ball of light loss because of a reflector instead of direct view. LED's are great for direct view, they fail at reflected.

If you like your $2.00 china knockoffs that are not really 1Watt , that's great. I'm looking for something that puts out more lumens from my fiero lens than the LED ones do, and there is nothing yet available that does. and yes I do real measurements with a light meter. Your eyes are as accurate for judging brightness as a butt-dyno is for judging air filter effectiveness.

What brighter taillight and front park/turn bulb?
First Try Cleaning assembles and if needed, repaint reflectors. (Spray "chrome" is good.)

You'd be surprise how bad "sealed" assembly can get messed up with junk...
Even a thin film of crap on reflectors can reduce lighting output by 1/3-1/2 or more. Good reflectors are a critical part of assembly performance.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by jim94: i was thinking of led for the tail light bulbs and front blinkers. led are not cheep, i am asking are thay worth it.

LEDs will not work correctly with colored lenses (e.g. tail/stop lights) unless there is an exact match between specific LED used and the color of the lens tint. Incandescent bulbs emit light over the entire visible spectrum, and the lens filters out all but the desired color (e.g. red for tail/stop lights). Each LED emits light of one characteristic and very specific (narrow bandwidth) color, and in general the colored lens of a lamp housing will not be "tuned" to efficiently pass that particular LED color. The result is that most of the light emitted by the LED is absorbed by the colored lens. There's a reason that most factory LED tail/stop light lenses are clear.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: ... LEDs light up so much quicker. I read a few years ago that this is one of the reason why automakers are using them in new cars.

Your reasoning is flawed. The "light up" time of LEDs is indeed measured in microseconds, while incandescent lamps take milliseconds. But human perception and reaction time are measured in hundreds of milliseconds. There is simply no safety gain to be had due to the relative "speed" of LEDs vs. incandescent lamps. LEDs have other desirable properties, but in this application speed is not one of them.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by theogre: What brighter taillight and front park/turn bulb? First Try Cleaning assembles and if needed, repaint reflectors. (Spray "chrome" is good.) You'd be surprise how bad "sealed" assembly can get messed up with junk... Even a thin film of crap on reflectors can reduce lighting output by 1/3-1/2 or more. Good reflectors are a critical part of assembly performance.

A old Bikers trick is High gloss bright white repaint of the inside of the reflector. it works better than chrome paint.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Your reasoning is flawed. The "light up" time of LEDs is indeed measured in microseconds, while incandescent lamps take milliseconds. But human perception and reaction time are measured in hundreds of milliseconds. There is simply no safety gain to be had due to the relative "speed" of LEDs vs. incandescent lamps. LEDs have other desirable properties, but in this application speed is not one of them.

I know its not the best source, but: http://forums.cnet.com/7723-10152_102-244527.html
Also, I recall reading a Cadillac flyer when they started using LED brake lights and claimed a ridiculous 200ft at 65mph.
The human reaction time might be in hundreds of milliseconds, but if the opportunity is offered earlier, the result will occur earlier.
In other words, if you start sooner, you will finish sooner.

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 04-29-2011).]

I've been planning an LED tail light project, but I'm not sure what route I will take with it. I've read in a few places about the concerns of using them behind stock lenses. At first I'd like to try behind stock colored lenses to see what kind of result I get. Once I have the light pattern set, (I plan on using 10mm bulbs), I plan on trying to use them directly behind the clear lenses after doing away with the colored housing to see what result I get. I've yet to order the materials, but it'll be a summer project. Worst case scenario I scrap it and lose out of a few bucks.

[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 04-29-2011).]

The ones I used in the wife's SUV were universal ones and worked fine with the stock lenses. If you are going to redo the whole assembly, I don't have the expertise to comment.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Also from GM.com: LED lights can last up to 20 times longer than traditional halogen bulbs, meaning they may never require replacement for the life of the vehicle.

I have read this a few places myself, but has anyone besides me noticed tractor trailers going down the road with sections of the led taillights out already?

I agree with Marvin on the response time for a person to react. While I do agree that the leds do light quicker, but not that a person is going to react that much quicker to avoid the situation they are in. If they were going to hit someone with the regular lights, the leds ain't going to save them.
How many people in general are going down the road with their eyes fixed on the taillights in front of them and their foot hovering over the brake pedal just waiting for them to come on?

Kevin

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: I agree with Marvin on the response time for a person to react. While I do agree that the leds do light quicker, but not that a person is going to react that much quicker to avoid the situation they are in. If they were going to hit someone with the regular lights, the leds ain't going to save them. How many people in general are going down the road with their eyes fixed on the taillights in front of them and their foot hovering over the brake pedal just waiting for them to come on? Kevin

You missed the point. It has nothing to do with reacting faster. The benefit is that you can react sooner.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: You missed the point. It has nothing to do with reacting faster. The benefit is that you can react sooner.

Which kind of taillight doesn't matter....
Most are in "accidents" are tailgater or distracted drivers.
Tailgater drive to close and can't stop in time any type of taillights. Simple law of physics and several other laws...
Distracted drivers, especially on cell phone, LED vs Normal Bulb who cares if driver doesn't look.

Even if new LED light have color lenses... Lenses are in match for LED output.
OE Fiero lenses may or may not match LED output in use and can matter which batch, let alone type/brand/etc, of LED product... Also can affect batch of OE Fiero lenses. GM had a spec's made for lightbulb not LED. Light bulb is much more forgiving if color changes or fades.

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: I have read this a few places myself, but has anyone besides me noticed tractor trailers going down the road with sections of the led taillights out already?

Yes... Most likely Made of cheap components...

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

quote ... from GM.com: When used as brake lights, [LED lights] enhance safety because they illuminate more quickly than conventional bulbs

Bizarre, even for advertising hyperbole.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: t has nothing to do with reacting faster. The benefit is that you can react sooner.

That's a distinction without a significant difference. And while we're splitting hairs, your original claim (and GM's) was "faster."

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by timgray: Those are not brighter than a stock bulb. it may look it at night, but when it counts, daytime in the bright sunlight, they are far dimmer than a stock bulb. I even used 3 watt prototypes from 2 years ago that were being tested for brightness and they are still dimmer than a stock bulb, I posted photos that proved it.

It depends on the application. For side markers, where there's no reflector, regular incandescents "waste" a lot of their emitted light. 180 degree LEDs don't waste any. I've used them in daylight and the visibility is still good.

quote I am buying real Cree 5 watt assemblies for Automotive use from an automotive supplier (no you cant buy these at Autozone, you have to be an automotive company to get them) from a friend that works for GM. If your tail lights are not designed for LED then you will always be behind the ball of light loss because of a reflector instead of direct view. LED's are great for direct view, they fail at reflected. If you like your $2.00 china knockoffs that are not really 1Watt , that's great. I'm looking for something that puts out more lumens from my fiero lens than the LED ones do, and there is nothing yet available that does. and yes I do real measurements with a light meter. Your eyes are as accurate for judging brightness as a butt-dyno is for judging air filter effectiveness.

A 194 bulb puts out 25 lumens. Even crappy 1 watt LEDs easily produce 25 lumens. The benefit is that the 180 degree LEDs don't have any losses into the reflector. Note I'm not saying these are suitable in all cases - they clearly arent - but they work well in some applications since the light distribution is different. Note that I used these mainly on a Camaro that I sold and I haven't bought any more - I've found the reliability of USA-made incandescents is far better than Chinese LEDs.

[This message has been edited by masospaghetti (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Lambo nut: ... has anyone besides me noticed tractor trailers going down the road with sections of the led taillights out already?

Like virtually all semiconductor devices (transistors, diodes, ICs, etc.), LEDs are sensitive to voltage transients (spikes) and high temperatures. Designing a lamp system to provide adequate heat dissipation under all conditions is critical to long LED service life. Expensive lamp assemblies usually have it; cheap ones often don't.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 04-30-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: And while we're splitting hairs, your original claim (and GM's) was "faster."

Thanks for taking that out of context.

I have noticed that a few people here are quick to declare that another person is wrong, yet few ever cite a source to support their claims.

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Thanks for taking that out of context.

OK ... What is the intended context?

quote Originally posted by Xyster: LED lights can last up to 20 times longer than traditional halogen bulbs, meaning they may never require replacement for the life of the vehicle.

Yes, quality ones that are built right and dont cost $2.00 each but actually cost far more than that. The china junk starts losing led elements quickly. and if your lenses are not 100% sealed they will start corroding fast as the china low price junk is not conformal coated for humidity and water protection.

I have several LED replacement bulbs here that after 2 years have half the led chips dead and show significant signs of corrosion just from humidity. It's why I stopped buying the ebay stuff and started looking at the real ones. I even have some that the metal cup that mounts in the base started showing corrosion because it's plating was such a low quality.

Someone posted here a complete retrofit with hundreds if not a thousand LED's in custom boards in the tail lenses. THAT would be highly effective and far brighter than any plug and play bulb.