I just got finished with my 3800sc swap in my 88 w/getrad. It started right up too!!! But, the clutch will not disengage. I installed a new Spec 3 with aluminum flywheel package. The slave cylinder is new last year and had it working great with the 2.8. I bled the thing twice with a vacume bleeder. There's pressure on the pedal and I watched the slave as my wife pushed the clutch, there is movement. It looks like enough too.

Is it possible I assembled the clutch wrong?
can you assemble it wrong that would cause this??
is there a difference in the amount of throw needed between the stock 2.8 setup and this one?

Any suggestion please.

I really hoping I don't have to drop the engine again but if I do I need to have a goal, something specifc to check.

thanks

[This message has been edited by My1stMidEng (edited 03-30-2011).]

just a thought, and a big favor. Would someone with this setup be willing to mesure the amount of travel the arm to the clutch moves?

I know, its a lot to ask.

yes it is possible to assemble the clutch wrong or you could have installed the t/o bearing wrong.... i just purchased the spec stage 3+ hd pressure plate and aluminium flywheel as well... my clutch disc has a sticker that says flywheel side do you remember seeing that?

you are discribing a revesred clutch disk to a t. If you turn the car off can you go threw the gears fine? if so I have to agree with above your disk may be in backwards. I have to look at my books to say which way it goes looking at it my spec i got used has no sticker saying which side goes towards flywhell but it does matter.

I think I remember something about directions on the pressure plate, and that it goes in one way only. It's been a while though and I wouldn't be at all surprised if I put in wrong.

Thanks for the replies. I don't mind taking the car apart again if there's a chance I did something wrong and it sounds like your both in agreement that putting it in backwards could cause this problem.

To answer one question. The car shifts fine when the engine is off.

thanks

Measure the amount of travel first. Looks like enough sounds like too much of a guess to me.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: Measure the amount of travel first. Looks like enough sounds like too much of a guess to me.

How much is the right amount? This is great idea and pulling the engine is a lot of work for a guess.

quote Originally posted by My1stMidEng: How much is the right amount?

In most cases just under an inch is good, anything over is a plus.

Maybe the Fiero is different, but every clutch I've ever put in, the disc won't fit right if it's backwards. The disc hub hits the flywheel center bolts before the friction touches the flywheel face. So it's pretty hard to actually assemble it if the disc were backwards. I would think the pressure plate bolts would be really hard to start.

I am in the same situation as you right now. 3800sc/5spd FWD Getrag and it will not go into gear while running but it will drop right in if the engine is not running. You can get the disk in backwards as someone had just posted a few days ago about this and had pics showing the words "flywheel this side" I believe. That was the problem with theirs and maybe mine also. I tried bleeding it and still no luck.

Steve

I'm getting a good inch of travel on the tranny from the point I start to feel travel to the end.

I sent Spec email asking if the plate can be backwards but haven't heard back yet.

Before you take it apart do this.

1 Make sure the clutch pedal is 1" above brake pedal at rest

2 - Make sure you have 1" of actual movement of the slave pushrod.

3 - If you don't have a full inch of slave pushrod try pumping the clutch pedal quickly 5 times and see if you get full disengagement. If pumping the clutch pedal gets full disengagement it means you still have air in your system.

If you have a full inch of slave movement and you still don't have disengagement you have something wrong inside the bellhousing.

If you are working on a 4 speed or Isuzu change that measurement to 1 1/8"

update:

I removed the starter and using a mirror and light watched the pressure plate while a friend pushed the pedal. The plate was lifting off the disk a good 1/8", maybe more!!

We tried rotating the tires while in first gear and with the clutch pressed. You could move the tires but there was a lot of drag.

So it seems the disk is being held tight againts the flywheel and the only thing I can think of is the transmission shaft spline is doing that. Maybe because the disk is in backwards? I hope its that simple. Thoughts?

quote Originally posted by My1stMidEng: do you have a link to the thread? are you planning on dropping the engine soon?

I can not find the thread and I just got the engine in so I hope its not coming back out.

I just tried bleeding again and im still getting nowhere. Also posting in my other thread "FWD Getrag 5 spd...clutch problems" Hopefully someone can get an idea on whats wrong.

Still sounds like we have the same problem.

Steve

ALWAYS,,ALWAYS USE THE ARCHIE METHOD TO BLEED THE AIR FROM THE SLAVE ,,I have seen the air blast out,like a taco bell burrito fart from my wrinkled cellulite buttocks , using the archie method
...any FIERO engine swap should have a slave double seal piston from Rodney or the 85/86 MR 2 piston repair kit,,with Rodney preferable,his kit has a new spring
The stock fiero clutch slave single seal piston sucks,,a tight friction fit is better
..all the old Fiero clutch bagaboos pedal height,bushings,aluminum clutch pedal are over come by the 2 seal piston
grab that hard rod with a pair of vise grips, force it back quickly and watch the fluid,air, jism explode out.

Place car in first gear, push in clutch ,start car ,what happens??

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-31-2011).]

Heres the method Archie uses and I will try this tomorrow.

http://www.v8archie.com/arch4.htm

After bleeding it and cleaning out the old fluid, it seems alot closer now. In gear, the car just barly wants to rock when I bump the starter so its still touching but nothing like it was.

Steve

quote Originally posted by JumpStart: Heres the method Archie uses and I will try this tomorrow. http://www.v8archie.com/arch4.htm After bleeding it and cleaning out the old fluid, it seems alot closer now. In gear, the car just barly wants to rock when I bump the starter so its still touching but nothing like it was. Steve

getting all the air out is important but why not just check the movement of the arm on the bell housing. If your getting about an inch then you likely have all the air out.

Do what I did and drop the starter and watch how far the pressure plate moves. My engine is coming out on Saturday.

[This message has been edited by My1stMidEng (edited 04-01-2011).]

Well theres your problem. You need a new garage wall.

Where did you get your flywheel ? Did it measure .820-.840" from the mounting boss to the friction surface ?

He got the optional aluminum flywheel from spec.

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: He got the optional aluminum flywheel from spec.

ya it was a package deal from Spec. I hope the flywheel is correct.

I would hope it was correct the too ! I'm sure it wasnt cheap !

Did you use the release bearing that matches the trans ?

If you were able to see the pressure plate release and the clutch still holds, you have a problem in the clutch assembly and will likely need to pull the transmission. HOWEVER, I did work on an old ford truck last spring that had a clutch that wouldn't release. Turned out that the disc rusted to the flywheel over the previous winter (it worked fine before that winter). If your engine/trans has been sitting in a damp environment for long, try having a helper hold the clutch pedal down while you carefully try to pry the disc away from the flywheel. Try rotating the crank if needed and apply force at different areas around the flywheel. Don't go nuts with a pry tool, you don't want to bend the disc, just break it free if rusted.

Not related, but I also worked on an S-10 that lost it's clutch over night. Gentle driver and no signs of slipping the day before. Turned out a mouse got into the clutch area and was spread out and wedged between the pressure plate housing and release fingers, not allowing the clutch to enguage. Kinda gross. We didn't try cleaning and re-using.

[This message has been edited by 1fatcat (edited 04-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: I would hope it was correct the too ! I'm sure it wasnt cheap ! Did you use the release bearing that matches the trans ?

I payed a little too much but I was trying to buy worry-free thinking this complete package (including bearing) would work. We see how that's worked out so far!

How did you spin the tires? Were they both off the ground and going in the same direction, or opposite directions? Or was one on the ground? Just want to make sure it wasn't the differential that you seen turning. I know you said there was a lot of drag, but that could be brakes? I guess what I'm thinking is if you can spin the clutch with the tires in the air, it should spin on the ground too?

quote Originally posted by 1fatcat: How did you spin the tires? Were they both off the ground and going in the same direction, or opposite directions? Or was one on the ground? Just want to make sure it wasn't the differential that you seen turning. I know you said there was a lot of drag, but that could be brakes? I guess what I'm thinking is if you can spin the clutch with the tires in the air, it should spin on the ground too?

I had the tires in the air. There wasn't any drag from the brakes. I could spin one tires and the other went in the other direction with ease. I held the clutch depressed with a bar (my 3rd person) while the two of us rotated the tires in the same direction. not only was there friction but I heard a distinct rubbing noise coming from the bell housing which I attribute to the plate slipping on the flywheel.

Well then I would have to say it's in the clutch. Sorry, I was just looking for other, easier possibilities.

If with the clutch depressed you can rotate the both rear tires in the same direction that means the clutch is fully releasing. You should have no problems.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: If with the clutch depressed you can rotate the both rear tires in the same direction that means the clutch is fully releasing. You should have no problems.

you may have missed the statement that I can move the wheels but ->> there's a lot of friction. So much that the tranny will not stop spinning.

My friend bought a Fiero from a guy who cold not disengage his clutch after a clutch job. When we dropped the tranny we discovered the problem was with the clutch disk being in backwards. We noticed that when its in backwards it does not touch the flywheel, there's about a 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch gap between the two. This must mean the disk is always in contact with the pressure plate.

For being a new clutch, it didn't look like it was new.

------------------
Nick D.
'88 Fiero GT 5-spd
'03 Jetta GLS TDI 5-spd

It ultimately depends on the clutch. I installed a stock clutch disc backwards years ago not realizing that it mattered when I disconnected a 2.8L and 4 speed I purchased. The result was as follows:

It was very difficult to put the transmission in gear with the engine running.
It would start with a little forward pressure with the clutch disengaged.
There was a persistent squeak heard whenever the clutch pedal was depressed.
A clutch builder (not the one that built my clutch) didn't suspect I may have installed it backwards when I consulted him for a solution.
Eventually the squeak and the difficulty putting the transmission in gear went away.

I discovered my error when the clutch lining disentigrated a few thousand miles later. The squeaking turned out to be the springs rubbing against the head of the flywheel bolts and once the springs wore down enough the noise stopped.

I had the same problem- turned out to be the clutch pedal had bent after years of use- it was Dan from Ontario (formallyTrenton)
who rebent it and had it working again in a day. I kept that one as a spare and put a new one in from the Fiero Shop.

I pulled the engine and I did not install the disk backwards. You can't.

So it seems Spec either set me the wrong disk or ???. I pulled the flywheel off and laid the stock 2.8 and the one Spec sold me down on a flat surface. The thickness, backing to disk surface is the same so the flywheel is ok. But when I add the disk I get a total height (thickness) of 1/8" more. The Spec disk is too thick measured at where the spline goes in. The transmission shaft is pressing up against the disk.

Spec is closed today so I'll have to wait until Monday to see what they can do for me.

[This message has been edited by My1stMidEng (edited 04-02-2011).]

Can you see any scraping marks?