Over here in the UK F23 boxes are ten a penny. Is it possible to fit to the 2.8? I know the bolt pattern would be different, but does anyone know of an adapter plate available for it?

How about clutches? - I have to admit I know very little about the bellhousing size, input shaft splines etc. for the standard box as we didn't get anything with this box or in fact any of the 60degree V6 motors in Europe, even the Isuzu Trooper came with different engines for the UK/European market

I know the axles will fit into the F23, any ideas on mounts?

Thanks in advance folks!

i think archie makes a kit. do a search, i think its been done/talked about if thats not the kit he makes.

http://www.noidearecords.com/thelinsells/

This guy will sell you the kit for an ecotec and F23 to go into a Fiero. You could probably just use the transmission portion of his kit.
You would still need to adapt the bellhousing.

There are a few F23 bellhousings out there that fit the fiero motors. Not sure how many are in europe.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: There are a few F23 bellhousings out there that fit the fiero motors. Not sure how many are in europe.

There are probably a total of zero - at least on cars for our markets. Do all the F23 boxes fit to the bellhousing in the same way? Perhaps it would be as easy to just try and get hold of the right bellhousing for the motor and cobble it together like that?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: There are a few F23 bellhousings out there that fit the fiero motors. Not sure how many are in europe.

oh? what cars are they on?

quote Originally posted by hookdonspeed: oh? what cars are they on?

2000 to 2002 Cavalier (Sunfire) with 2200 engine.

the 00 was the 2.2l non-ecotech.... intresting, they should be rather common, what else is needed to make them fit?

We didn't get the 2200 engine here (we do have the ecotec though, of course) What we did get however is the OHC engine - as found in the Sunbird and sunbird GT in turbo form. Anybody know what the bolt pattern for these is?

that should be the same pattern as the 2200, because the 2200 was just an evolution of those.

Any suggestion on how to best check if they're the same? I might be able to take a look at a Vauxhall box on an OHC engine in my mate's car - I won't easily get access to one out of the car though...

When I refer to the OHC engine, I mean the engine in the Sunbird turbo (minus the turbo)

quote Originally posted by Gandalf: Any suggestion on how to best check if they're the same? I might be able to take a look at a Vauxhall box on an OHC engine in my mate's car - I won't easily get access to one out of the car though... When I refer to the OHC engine, I mean the engine in the Sunbird turbo (minus the turbo)

If you can see the top portion of the bell housing and how it bolts to the block, it should be pretty easy to determine which bolt pattern it is. But if it's anything pre-Ecotec, and not on a Saab/Opel/Saturn, it's probably the standard FWD pattern that matches the Fiero pattern. Anything Ecotec or High Feature V6 is going to use the new world bolt pattern. Even the Euro F40 trans in the Saabs has the new bolt pattern, I believe, as they only come on Ecotecs or the 2.8t High Feature V6. Only the F40s attached to the 3.9 in the G6 had the regular FWD pattern, afaik.

This thread makes me laugh.

BTW, you can put a 2200 bell housing onto an ecotec trans

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: This thread makes me laugh. BTW, you can put a 2200 bell housing onto an ecotec trans

That's the basic plan here - fit the 2200/OHC bell housing onto an F23 - if thats possible, I might do that. anyone have any thoughts on whether the f23 would be a more streetable trans than the 4 speed? Also would the standard clutch fit in the bellhousing OK?

Yes the clutch works, yes the axles work, and yes, its a great daily driver trans. I wish the final drive was a little lower numerically, but overall its much better trans all around

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 09-25-2010).]

much better is an understatement in my opinion. swapping the bellhousing between the ecotec version and the 2200 version is an effortless task assuming you have any mechanical abilities.

The Cavalier version has ratios of 3.58/2.02/1.35/0.98/0.69, with FDR of 3.84:1.
The basic math formula you need is gear times FDR times the constant 336 times MPH, divided by the new, unloaded tire diameter in inches, gives RPM. Diameter can be calculated, but it's easier to just look up your rear tire size on www.tirerack.com
Don't do 2 times loaded radius, because the distance the tire travels per rotation won't ever match that. The circumference will reduce slightly with wear, but never with load. The above constant inherently accounts for circumference from you inputting new unloaded diameter.

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 12-06-2010).]

so how many resent bolt patterns did GM use for the 4 bangers

there is the duke/60*V6 ours

quad four and son of Q4

sunbird twincam [ brazil ?]

ecotec

older saab ?

saturn ?

are any of those the exact same pattern

This is a good place to start.

------------------
yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

A good place to start what?

i am very interested in the 2010 cobalt f23 with the 3.63 final ratio. jnco can i buy the 2200 bellhousing and bolt it to the newer f23 from a cobalt?

That trans was first introduced in 2009 and yes you can just swap bellhousing but there is more work than just that to make it work in a fiero.

young what all would be involved and what parts would i need? thanks, mike in oklahoma

couldn't you just swap the diff?

the diff wont change the final ratio. you have to use the ring and pinion at which point its easier to swap bellhousings.

So it looks like you get the 2000 -2002 cav/sunbird f23 trans for the 60 degree v6 bellhousing and use it with whatever f23 gearbox you want.

quote Originally posted by mera7: the diff wont change the final ratio. you have to use the ring and pinion at which point its easier to swap bellhousings.

thank you for clearing that up for me mera7

so far the opinion that i have came to from jcno and l67's very resourceful data... and some research i have done on my own is... the newer cobalt f23's from late 2008-2010 have the better friction materials, and the fy1 3.63 final ratio is the better gearing option for me. then use a 2.2 bellhousing. install a new helical lsd and run my new custom pressure plate with my new kevlar clutch disc and go for it. i will be testing this entire setup within the next 2 weeks. i have a zz430 sbc with mods making it 480hp at the flywheel and a NOS super shot 150hp making 630hp at the flywheel total. we will see how the f23 holds up. i will keep this thread posted.

Now that OBX is producing a true LSD, and a true torsen design at that, at 1/5 the cost of a stupidly overpriced Quaife, now there's no question what I'll be going to.
On ebaymotors, the seller is listed as racingpartsdepot, and it's $319 shipped, inside the 48 states. Excellent!

[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 12-05-2010).]

i agree isolde... thats the one i was talking about in my above posts.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: that should be the same pattern as the 2200, because the 2200 was just an evolution of those.

the 2.0 and 2.2 (cam in block) cavalier engine is not in any way the dirivitive of the 1.6 1.8 and 2.0 pontiac OHC engine and do not share the V6 bellhousing the OHC pontiac 4 is a bread of its own as is the Q4

this is a pic of the 2.0 pontiac engine

here is a cavalier 2.2

[This message has been edited by bubbajoexxx (edited 12-05-2010).]

Thanks for giving us reference pics, is that first one supposed to be the '03-up Ecotec? Your second pic is the pattern typically seen in most Fieros, and I'm sure was used with the F23 in '00-'02 Cavalier and Sunfire.

quote Originally posted by Isolde: Thanks for giving us reference pics, is that first one supposed to be the '03-up Ecotec? Your second pic is the pattern typically seen in most Fieros, and I'm sure was used with the F23 in '00-'02 Cavalier and Sunfire.

the top pic is of the sunbird 2.0 ohc engine not ecotec the ecotec is a isuzzu engine GM is now using since 2003 to replace there original GM 4 cylinder engines Q4, 2.2 pancake used in the cavaliers and the OHC pontiac 2.0 engines

purchased a 2010 cobalt f23 today. will keep the thread posted.

the ecotec originated in europe .if you cannot find the f23 with the right bell housing , there is an adapter plate available that will bolt an ecotec to a standard gm fwd bolt pattern .the cobalt racing teams used it to run the 4t60 auto tranny for drag racing .i think it would work to go old motor style to ecotec bell housing but you would need to confirm that .i am sure someone could just ship you over a proper bell housing .

new 2010 f23 cobalt 287 getrag 3.63 final ratio;

quote Originally posted by mera7: new 2010 f23 cobalt 287 getrag 3.63 final ratio;

Please share the GM part number?

I'm wondering if that trans is gonna as strong or stronger than my F23. My case is a completely different design. Hopefully that doesn't turn out to be a flop for ya. Good luck.

jcno you gotta be kidding me.... uh oh.