Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  Engine "grumbles", very underpowered... EGR?

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


Engine "grumbles", very underpowered... EGR? by gh0st
Started on: 12-11-2010 11:53 AM
Replies: 21
Last post by: phonedawgz on 12-12-2010 12:59 AM
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Like the title says, my car doesn't sound the same as it used to. The engine grumbles, and the car can barely accelerate. I haven't noticed a drop in gas milage, I'm getting about 20. Since I've owned the car I've replaced the spark plugs, wires, most fluids(transmission, engine, coolant, ect), fuel filter, the air filter looks new, distributer, cap and rotor, heater core... and some other things I may be forgetting. When my dad stopped by O'Reilly's to get the heater core he said the guy there had owned like 7 fieros and was working on one right now. The guy told him it was most likely something with the EGR. Does this sound true? What should I check to see what needs replacing? The car is an 87GT, 2.8, 5 speed.

[This message has been edited by gh0st (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Lets start with the basics. Key on, engine off does the service engine soon light come on? It should. Are you getting the SES light at anyother times?

Have you checked for ECM codes?
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
How to check for ECM codes



What they mean.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...100421-2-096358.html
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
When you set the timing when you replaced the distributor did you jumper A-B?

If not, then that is your problem.

Setting the timing
IP: Logged
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Yes, it does come on when I start the car. My SES did come on the other day, just after I changed the heater core. I'll go check. Thankyou, that video was very helpful.
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Did you replace the distributor? Have you messed with the timing at all?
IP: Logged
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Oh, no I don't think I replaced the distributer, just the cap and rotor. I don't think the problem started after I did that either. I checked for error codes, I watched it for a few minutes and it just repeated 12, more than 3 times.

[This message has been edited by gh0st (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 12:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Did you replace the plugs also? Both front and rear banks?

What does the engine idle at once warmed up? 900 - 1000?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
topher_time
Member
Posts: 3231
From: Bailey's Harbor, for now.
Registered: Sep 2005


Feedback score:    (16)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 64
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 01:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for topher_timeSend a Private Message to topher_timeDirect Link to This Post
Take out your oxygen sensor and see how it runs. I'm thinking plugged catalytic converter if it is still there... might be the muffler as well.
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 01:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Lets clean up that EGR valve while were here. Two 13mm headed bolts and a vacuum line and it's off. Be careful not to bump around the tube that leads from the block under the EGR to the bottom of the intake manifold. They are prone to leaking.

Two bolts and the vacuum line and the EGR valve should be in your hands. Clean any carbon deposits from it with a wire wheel Check to make sure it moves up and down ok. Then push it up, seal the vacuum line with your finger and make sure the diaphram stays in the up position. Then pull your finger off and the diaphram sould return to it's normal position.

The problems that could cause the troubles like you describe are a stuck open (retracted) valve, or a valve with carbon deposits that hold it open. Usually the trouble is much worse at idle and low speed engine operation. Usually at higher speed it doesn't make as much difference.

It's easy to clean, and easy to test so might as well have at it and either prove it to be the cause, or eliminate it as the cause.

It's the big round thing right next to the arrow head
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by topher_time:

Take out your oxygen sensor and see how it runs. I'm thinking plugged catalytic converter if it is still there... might be the muffler as well.


Specially if the noise it's making kinda sounds like you blowing through your teeth held together. A plugged exhaust will tend to cause more change in operation when the throttle is more open, and less with the engine is operating at idle. ie, it kinda idles fine but when trying to accelerate it just goes nowhere.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 04:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Okay, I took off the EGR valve, it seems to operate okay, no buildup, no holes in the diaphram.
IP: Logged
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post

gh0st

69 posts
Member since May 2010
I just drove the car, its got way worse. I was doing 50, gas pedal all the way to the floor, 5th gear, and the car was decelerating. In 4th gear, pedal to the floor, it could only maintain 45. Help!!
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
The noise - like an air rushing noise?
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 07:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
Remove the O2 sensor - its on the exhaust pipes - past where the two cylinder banks join up - but before the catalyic converter. This will cause an exhaust leak there. If the engine runs much better with the exhaust leak you have an exhaust problem. Most likely a plugged converter.

IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
Kinda looks like this

IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

17106 posts
Member since Dec 2009
Running with the O2 sensor removed will cause the Service Engine Soon light to come on and will force the ECM to run in open loop mode. After the test you will need to reset the ECM by removing one of the battery cables for 30 seconds.

Removing the O2 sensor has to be done from underneath. Back the car on ramps like you're doing an oil change. Let the car sit for a while after you back it up the ramps to let the exhaust system cool off so you don't burn yourself. Watch out for the cat, that part will be the hottest part on the exhaust.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I do hear an air noise coming from behind me. I'm going to jack the car up and try what you said, the guy at autozone also said to try knocking on the cat to see it it sounds solid.
IP: Logged
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
Don't get under a car supported only by a jack.

Ramps or Jack Stands.

You don't change your own oil?

The air noise is new and came on along with the trouble?

If so id say 90% cat converter.

Sometimes the honecomb of the cat comes out as a chunk and travels to the muffler and causes the plug there.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-11-2010).]

IP: Logged
gh0st
Member
Posts: 69
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2010


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post12-11-2010 11:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gh0stSend a Private Message to gh0stDirect Link to This Post
Yes, I have jack stands and the car was supported by them before I went under. The noise did come along with the trouble. I disconnected the O2 sensor, that solved my power issues. So... I either need to straight pipe it or get a high flow one from Rodney... what would you recommend?
IP: Logged
Raydar
Member
Posts: 41375
From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country.
Registered: Oct 1999


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 461
Rate this member

Report this Post12-12-2010 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
If you don't need to pass emissions, I'd just straight pipe it.

For off road use only. <nudge-nudge. wink-wink.>
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz
Member
Posts: 17106
From: Green Bay, WI USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score:    (23)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 291
Rate this member

Report this Post12-12-2010 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
You don't need to go with a Rodney cat unless you plan on passing emissions in California. The wackos in CA feel the need for the converter to look like origional equipment. More government stupid think. So it doesn't matter if your new converter works as good as the origional in CA. It doesn't matter if your converter works better than origional. It matters to the brilliant people in CA if it is origional. So we come up with converters that sure look origional and install them. Course they aren't origional but that doesn't matter. I surely would think the government nimrods even know exactly what is going on. But it makes their small brains feel good and so we all play the 'stupid game'. Kinda sounds like the regulators for Chernobyl eh?

Check the prices of cats at the local store and then make your call.

IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock