Got a problem that started two days ago with the fiero and its causing me some questions. hoping someone might have an answer to what is going on. Its an 86 Gt Auto with 140k and the stock V6.
Problem is this: Was trying to cross 4 lanes and the car started leap frogging. Meaning I had the accelerator steady and it would jump a few feet and and roll jump and roll etc till i got across. I figured it was low on fuel (it was close and i was headed to get gas) so i turned around got home and parked it. Added some fuel and started it but it sounded odd. I thought maybe it pulled some crap off the fuel tank and was messing with the fuel filter or the injectors so i tossed in some injector cleaner as well. No change, so today I put in a new fuel filter, checked the spark plugs, and checked fuel pressure coming off the pump with no difference.

Simplified the problem is this.
Engine doesn't sound right, is idling wrong and dying , when put in gear dies immediately.

Attached is a link to recording of the engine. It starts at me starting the car and you can hear its off idle and then dies without me doing anything. Start it again, my dad pulls the throttle and holds it and the car is running I try to put it in gear and then it dies again which is the end of the file. hopefully the audio file can help describe what the engine is doing better then my descriptions. Note about the idle, its only when the car starts and is under 1000rpm that it sounds like the begging of the file. Over 1000rpm the car idles well, but has died sporadically but no consistently every time. File is in Mp4 so itunes or quicktime to open.

http://www.filefactory.com/.../20100624_203544.m4a
PS sorry but you have to download the audio, i can't set an option to listen.

[This message has been edited by laoeser (edited 06-26-2010).]

I'm no expert on auto trannys, but it could be that your torque converter clutch (TCC) is acting up. It's a mini electrically actuated clutch that bypasses the fluid coupling in the torque converter at highway speeds to make a mechanical connection between the engine and trans. If it starts acting up, then as soon as you put it in gear the engine will stall at idle. To test whether it's the TCC, unplug the square white (well, usually white) connector on the transmission that has four wires going to it and try starting the car. If it works, then you can drive the car but just be aware that you won't get that "fourth gear" on the highway.

I'll try that out and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion! Anyone else got some advice as its my dd and only car.

[This message has been edited by laoeser (edited 06-25-2010).]

bump

1 - we can't download the file

2 - does the engine run bad with the tranny in park? If so lets stop thinking this is a tranny problem

3 - how did you check the fuel pressure?

Since the trouble occured when you thought you ran very low on gas that makes me suspect the fuel pump. Not sure how you checked the fuel pressure "at the pump" I doubt you dropped the tank to test the fuel pressure. You need to check the fuel pressure at the schrader valve.

Let me ask this - ever since when this problem occured - the engine runs for crap AND with it running for crap in park - you can't even get it to idle in drive. This problem didn't occur before the incident?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-26-2010).]

I'll work on the audio problem and not being able to download it, should have that fixed today.

Question 2 Yes the engine is running bad in park. I can crank it over and in three seconds it can't break 500 rpm and dies.

Question 3 To check the pressure I hooked up a gauge at the schrader valve and hit a 43 PSI. Note on this it was bleeding down after turning the ignition back off, and did the other tests in the haynes manual but didn't get a good read so no definite answer from the test.

Yeah it runs crappy upon starting unless I force the rpms over 1000 then it smooths out and idles. When i get it to idle smooth 1 for 3 the engine will cut out after 3 minutes of sitting in idle. I can't get it to idle in reverse or drive, once i switch out of park it immediately cuts out and dies. This has never occurred before, which is why I'm puzzled.

What's the tach doing when its doing this? Jumping all around? ICM or pick up coil is where I'd look then.



On the google doc audio file - are you sure you have it clicked - shared?

While running the fuel pressure stays where it is supposed to correct?

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-26-2010).]

Initially the car won't stay running long enough for the take to move. If I force it it will stay steady at 1500

I switched to a different site to host the file, one of those annoying sites to deal with, but the only thing i could find that takes audio.
Click on the skip directly to the download, then it says download now with filefactory basic, type the stupid security words and download then a timer pops up and you can get the file. sorry for the hassle but it seems the best way to describe the problem.


While running the fuel pressure stays where it is supposed to correct?
so far as i could tell it was.

You might also consider the Throttle Position Sensor. If this fails it's usually where it spends most of it's life (at idle or low speed). Can you tell us if the car runs better when you mash the throttle past, say, half or more?

So do the coil check shown here - also bring the ICM to your local parts store for them to check it. They have a tester there to test it.

ALWAYS use thermal paste under the ICM or it will burn out shortly.

You might also consider the Throttle Position Sensor. If this fails it's usually where it spends most of it's life (at idle or low speed). Can you tell us if the car runs better when you mash the throttle past, say, half or more?

So do the coil check shown here - also bring the ICM to your local parts store for them to check it. They have a tester there to test it.

ALWAYS use thermal paste under the ICM or it will burn out shortly.

Hudini- yeah I'll certainly check on that as well. Yea it actually does perform better. I can push to half or more but its slow to get there in rpm's

Phone- Will definetly do the check on the coil. On my 85 iron duke i killed at least 3 icm's (faulty product from the factory) but i know what you mean or burning them up.

I'll post back up on the results of these tests, thanks.

One more test to throw at you if you are still having problems. Remove the O2 sensor and see if the car runs better. This checks for a clogged cat converter. If the cat is clogged you will be surprised how much better the car will run simply opening that little hole in the exhaust. Don't run the car very long this way as you're letting raw, hot exhaust into your engine compartment.

Well I got around to checking it today, with rain the last two days I couldn't. A mechanic friend of my dads suggested checking the spark plug wires. They were less then a year old but I changed them anyways today. Started up fine and seemed to run completely like normal except for one thing. It wouldn't shift up until it hit 4000 rpm (23mph) and you get a nice jerk when it switched. 3rd gear was the same just not the hard jerk. figured i could get it home when my oil pressure started flopping the car died in traffic. Got it going again, couple hundred feet later the oil pressure zeroed out and car died and threw me a code 33. Now its stuck at zero oil pressure but tries to crank.

So I will def be looking at the O2 sensor and trying to figure out whats going on with the Map sensor. When I get it home I'll look at the ICM again as well.

[This message has been edited by laoeser (edited 06-28-2010).]

Any chance your oil pressure sender has it's connector coming loose?



The oil pressure sender does two things -

1 makes the gauge run
2 is a back up way to turn the fuel pump on.


Now if the ECM/Relay - which is the other way to run the fuel pump - was not working,
And then the oil pressure sender/fuel pump switch connector was coming off

You might be getting the problem you are talking about.

Thanks for the pic, it will certainly help in locating it. I'll check on it tomorrow and reply with what happens. thanks for the help! Do you think there might be a problem with the ECM or Prom?

[This message has been edited by laoeser (edited 06-28-2010).]

Well the oil pressure gauge doesn't run from the ECM at all - other than having the engine running. I am thiking your oil pressure is ok, however it would be a good idea to check that out before running the engine with no oil pressure. If the connector is 1/2 off of the sender - reconnecting it will get the gauge working right away.

If it doesn't you WILL want to connect a mechanical oiil pressure gauge and see that you are indeed getting oil pressure before you attempt to run your enging too much.

No oil pressure = big trouble. Open the distributor and watch and make sure the rotor is turning correctly when you crank the engine.

I don't see this to be likely as an ecm or prom

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-29-2010).]

Don't know how much of a difference it might make into all this but i'm pretty sure I have a leaking valve cover gasket because my plugs are (minus the tips) are soaked in oil any time i pull them.

Not a factor in the other trouble -- unless you ran it dry of oil

I'm assuming that the broken one is a vacuum line and might be causing a problem. What is the other line. Also what type of hose will i look to buy?

[This message has been edited by laoeser (edited 06-30-2010).]