Yo,having an issue with a clutch.
I'm an auto tech,but try to stay away from trans in general and have somehow kept away from manual trans especially so need some help please.

I have an 87 4cyl 5spd that I cannot get the clutch to disengage.
When I bought it,the clutch master was missing.
Bought new master,and rebuilt the slave with the MR2 piston and new bleeder valve(from S10 slave).
Installed all the above and bled system for ever.
When I was done bleeding,I bled till infinity with pressure bleeder.
Than I read Archism #4&5 and bled it all again.

Read about the problem with the aluminum clutch pedal's bending.
Checked and while I ahve the steel pedal,it was bent worse than the aluminum ones i've seen in the pics.
Instead of ordering,I just took off the old pedal and used a vice and 3lb sledge to straighten it out.
Then rebled all over yet again.
I was able to get the clutch to disengage/engage long enough to drive to the end of my driveway(75yds or so),then had to pump it up to get into reverse to go back up the driveway.
Did it all over again with the bleeding of course.

The slave looks to be engaging the clutch arm fine,but when i'm looking at the pivot on the trans it is moving very little.
It really looks to me like the cast iron is actually bending instead of pivoting the stud like it should.
For the movement I get at the top of the arm,I am getting almost none at the pivot.

I have read about the stamped steel arm's on the older model's cracking and bending.
Everyone seems to swap to the cast arm that I already have.
I've never had an issue like this with cast iron,will it bend like i'm describing?
Can't get enough leverage safely on the arm to test the theory and attempt to drive.

Any chance someone could video the pivot so I could get an idea of how many degrees it's turning to compare?

I really don't want to dig into the tranny,but don't buy needless parts either.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Def

[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 06-12-2010).]

If rapid pumping of the clutch pedal allows you to shift properly that indicates you still have air in the system. Are you getting at least 1" of movement from the slave? Your clutch pedal at rest is 1" above the brake pedal?

I think to make any accurate measurement of the angle of rotation of the pivot arm is going to be extreemly difficult.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-13-2010).]

I am getting 1" from the slave it looks,my pedal sits even and not above my brake.(any higher it would contact neutral safety)
It is perfectly straight though,i've pulled it and rebent and had a couple people eyeball to verify it.

Pumping the clutch does nothing for me,only that single time and barely then.

I watched the pontiac clutch diagnosis video last night,and am going to check brake pedal travel and recheck the slave throw.

It shouldn't be hard to check angle of rotation,but I need a number to go by.

[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 06-13-2010).]

Defeddie,

Are you sure it is the clutch switch and not the cruise switch your clutch arm is hitting(both are on the clutch pedal)? The clutch pedal should really swing up until the metal portion of the arm hits the metal clutch support bracket! That is what finally fixed my low clutch pedal AND my disengagement problem! Take a look here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/108553.html
G/L,

Larry

[This message has been edited by imacflier (edited 06-13-2010).]

I guess it is the cruise switch,and i'm pretty convinced it is impeding pedal travel.
It is definately hitting the switch,i've been jacking with it a little bit.
If that's it,then it is literally only getting me by an 1/8th to a 1/4 inch.
Which as it might seem is just enough to make it not work.

I finally did something that got it going this afternoon doing the archie bleed yet again.
For the heck of it I raised the front end while I went to work.
When I got home all was good,shifter when into gear when started etc..
Tinkered a bit,then decided to drive around the yard a minute-
Bam!
No clutch yet again.
I will revisit the switch tomorrow,thanks for the heads up.

So it's hop on the left foot while spinning clockwise?
Or was it the right foot and counter clockwise?

Went out there real quick to strap a battery charger to the car,and checked the cruise switch real quick.

Had a quick "doh!" moment when I realized this car didn't have cruise-hence no cruise switch.

But it doesn't look like the neutral safety switch is impeding the travel,if anything it looks like I am at the end of travel for the master cylinder when the pedal is all the way back.
Which tells me the pedal isn't traveling far enough forward for the rod to totally engage the master i'm betting.

That seems to be the problem corrected by the adjustable banjo rodney sells.

Guess I will pull the clutch pedal again and figure out what is still out of whack.
Adjustable banjo looks like an easy fix,but I hate repairing symptoms.

Bending the pedal bracket more forward would be the same as extending the banjo with Rodney's adjustible banjo right? Also any issues with slack caused by worn out bushings in the pedal /banjo linkage?

Actually if the banjo is preventing the pedal from coming all the way up I think that clearly indicated a bent bracket. I think he brackets on the pedals get bent when the slave gets out of wack somehow and the slave bottoms out fully extended, causing a stopped hydro system (I almost said hydrolock) which then bends the weakest link (the bracket). That is difficult to find/diagnose because its so hard to see, and so hard to tell if its actually bent. Sometimes the banjo's bend in u shapes also.

One of the things that worked for me is to take the vacuum bleeder and then take the bleeder valve all the way out of the slave and then using the rubber hose of the vacuum bleeder held firmly into the bleeder valve hole, to suck a bit out to get the last bubble. Then replacing just the bleeder got me the best bleed. I think also rasing the drivers side of the car helps. Two problems with the vacuum bleeder is 1 - I think it sucks a lot of air in via the bleeder threads. 2 - instead of overcoming the resistance of the fluid in the lines, it many times instead pulls air past the slave. Since you have an improved slave piston, I don't think thats your problem at all.

I do think you are on the right track. A full pedal stroke is needed to produce enough fluid movement to move the slave

quote Originally posted by DefEddie: Adjustable banjo looks like an easy fix,but I hate repairing symptoms.

I hear ya there however if bending the bracket or lenghting the rod do basically the exact same thing then which is just a symptom? Both could be true solutions to the real problem, that being not enough Master Cylinder fluid displacement.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 06-14-2010).]

Wanted to bring a conclusion to this thread with some clarification.

I found the reason the clutch would engage sometimes,and not others.

I HAVE BIG CLOWN FEET!!!!!!!!!

Seriously,I have figured out that my foot when placed on the clutch will bottom out on the floor.
I realized it was actually bottoming out on the wheelwell/curve in the floor.
When I position my foot on the right side of the clutch I get full travel with no issue's.
It is very obvious once I figured it out,my foot on the curve stops just short of engaging.

And yes,I am considered a professional.
I think they might revoke my technician certifications for this one.
Doh!