Evening all,

My 4.9 swap plan incliudes keeping AC in the car. My plan is to use the stock Caddy pump. I am installing the 4.9 in an 88 Coupe / Duke car. The stock AC system has it's switches in the back of the pump (V5). The Caddy pump has no switches. I think I have it figured out but I need some ideas/comments/help from those that have "been there - done that". Can I get the correct hi and lo pressure switches and install them inline somewhere - like on the condensor and the hi pressure port/line? Any hints on how I would wire this up? Or, should I fit up the stock V5 compressor? Thanks in advance.

Pat

I got this from my thread where I was thinking about this same issue. These were my thoughts then. 3/4 way down on the 3rd page:

quote Originally posted by josef644: I was looking for ways to make the AC work in my swap. I wanted to have a good working AC in this Coupe after the swap was finished. I went to: http://www.acsource.com/ and found they sell GM compressor horizontal exit compressor hose blocks: and a high pressure retro fit kit: Problem: My car was a 2.5 so it had the high and low pressure switches in the rear of the compressor. Problem number two is that the Cadillac hose set will not work in the Fiero engine bay. When we try to use the Fiero hose set on the rear of the Cadillac compressor it gets VERY close to the front side exhaust manifold. Picture borrowed from Dizzixx's thread. You can see that his manifolds aren't even on the engine. The muffler is close to the manifold area: Not good. The muffler on the Fiero hose set is in the wrong place also. The Cadillac compressor has no provisions for HI/Low switches on or in the compressor. So I need external Hi/Low controls. Fix I can run the wire that goes to the rear of the car to the spare tire area and connect to the high/low switches in there. The accumulator has a port for the normally open low pressure /compressor control valve. The V6 cars do this already. The 2.5 accumulators have a place for this on them that is unused now. First connection. Wire in series. Second connection would be threw this always closed high pressure switch attached to the 134A high port fitting. Then return this wire line to the place it was cut from originally. Then to the rear so does what it was supposed to do, activate the compressor control relay position 'A'. This is the way it is wired in the 2.5's now with the V5 compressors. All 86-88's 2.5's. Just the switches in front now instead of the engine compartment. I will need to attach the hose block to the compressor. Also the metal part of the Fiero AC hose , the part that connects to the body lines. Then just get a measurement between the two. Send them my old hose metal end part. They will make my hose to fit between the lines and the compressor, and send it back to me free shipping. Any thoughts? Just went to RockAuto and looked up the Cadillac compressor. It is a HR6. I know some 88 V6's used the HR6

I added the standard GM low pressure cycling switch and its connector to the accumulator, then ran the wire back to the AC switch in the dash so it can run rear wards to the engine compartment. Now all of my switches will be in the front. I haven't purchased the high pressure switch cut out you It screws onto the low pressure connector of the accumulator and the gauge will connect there.

I am gonna try to see if the Fiero hose set will fit underneath the Cadillac exhaust manifold some time tomorrow. I'll take a photo of it if it will go on without hitting the exhaust manifold. I will post it for you. I have already made and installed a heat shield in its location to help prevent roasting the AC lines there.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-27-2010).]

Thanks Joe, I knew I had read something somewhere about this. Just could not find it. Sounds like a seperate project from the swap to me. I'll get it in and running first then worry about the AC. I think with the manifold block you show, the stock Fiero AC hose cut and lengthend (professionaly) with new fittings for the manifold, a couple switches and some wire, I'd be there.

Pat

quote Originally posted by katatak: Thanks Joe, I knew I had read something somewhere about this. Just could not find it. Sounds like a seperate project from the swap to me. I'll get it in and running first then worry about the AC. I think with the manifold block you show, the stock Fiero AC hose cut and lengthend (professionaly) with new fittings for the manifold, a couple switches and some wire, I'd be there. Pat

If I was you I'd plan on this before I moved to far ahead. It is a real pain to get to in the car. The rod that goes between the manifold and the engine mount just behind the compressor is gonna have to come out. I wouldn't want top do this in the car. Its the one that is sorta rusty here:


The Fiero's hiose set puts the muffler against the exhaust manifold. I just went and set it up against the compressor. I have to work overnight now, but will remove the rod and get a better look tomorrow.

I would be interestred in seeing what others have done ot get thier AC working.

Joe

I just noticed that the hoses on the pictures above, are on up side down. The muffler is in the incorrect location.
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-28-2010).]

Hey Joe,

I just went out and pulled the stock Duke AC lines from the car and attempted to bolt it up to the AC pump on the motor. I do not see anyway that this hose setup will work even if I take that brace off. It will not come up high enough to line up with the pump - hits the exhaust manifold. I alos noticed that this stock hose as 2 mufflers - 1 on each line. The other on is down stream from the pump and is covered by the insulation. Wondering if that is the difference between a duke/V5 pump and a V6/D6/H6 compressor?

I am wondering if we use the manifold block you found and have lines made with the firewall side block installed and have the mufflers installed on the firewall end? I have a friend here in El Paso that has AC setup on his 4.9 swap. I'll see if I can get under his car and take some pics so we can see how his was done. He took it to an AC place after the motor was installed and they hooked up the AC. I really do not want to pay someone else to do something I should be able to do. Here's a few pics I snapped this afternoon.

I removed the brace and you are correct. I couldn't get it on good enough to work. I was only able to get one of the hose coupler nubs into one of the ports of the compressor. I am gonna order the compressor connector block and hose ends for it tomorrow I think. I might have to wait on the high pressure switch for a while longer.

Joe

I am thinking that I might need to remove the compressor and try to remove the oil from it. I am gonna call my friend that is a pro on this stuff and see what he says tomorrow. If so now would be the best time to do it before its back in the cars body again.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-28-2010).]

I agree Joe,

Now would be the time to drain any old oil out. I also think it would be a good time to pour in the new oil. I've done this a few times on stock V6 Fiero compressors but I'll have to do some research on the Caddy system. Not exactly sure they will take the same amount of oil as the Fiero system? This is the last hurdle for me to jump over on the way to getting it done. I drove this car last summer with no AC and it was unbearable - It's gotta have AC!

Its the same HR6 compressor as was used on some of the Fiero's. It would hold the same amount of Pag. I am thinking 4 oz in the compressor , and the rest in the accumulator

If they are the same as the Fiero HR6 then I would say you are correct. 4 in the compressor and the rest in the accumulator. At least that's how I have done a few Fiero's in the past. Looks like the trick is to get a set of lines made up and then install a lo pressure switch on the accumulator port and then a kit like you found on the hi pressure port. That's exactly what I needed - more wiring!

Pat

Just got off of the phone with my friend. He said to only add about the same amount that I am able to pour out because there is oil in the bottom of all the other parts of the system, condenser etc. Then empty the accumulator and add that same amount there.

Just ordered my AC connector adapters and the block:
Part #14008A (#8 Standard) 14008 1 $3.96 $3.96
Part #15422 (#10 fitting to #12 hose) 15422 1 $6.45 $6.45
Hose Block (Horizontal ORing, Oring Type) aa0337 2 $28.95 $28.95

I had the guy on the phone while I was ordering these parts so I got the correct ones the first time. He told me he used to have a Fiero at one time after I told him I was installing the 4.9 in one and using the Caddie HR6 compresssor.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-29-2010).]

Thanks for posting the part numbers Joe. I'll be ordering tomorrow - they should give you a commission - or at least a discount for sending business thier way.

Pat

I only had time to skim the post, but Ed Parks told me that the A/C lines from the 1991-1995 DeVille will fit with a minor tweek, the ones for the other Cadillacs will need to be spliced.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/094633.html

Removing the roof panel
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/106413.html

I needed to connect the AC from a 2002 Alero 3.4 to my 84 SE. I found docsblocks.com to have the adapter blocks like were shown earlier to connect the AC pump to o-ring fittings and then o-ring fittings to the 84. They also have a 'clip-n-go' connector system that uses a custom pliers to 'clip' a clamp the hoses. At any rate you can do a custom hose fabrication at home.

quote Originally posted by slipstick: I needed to connect the AC from a 2002 Alero 3.4 to my 84 SE. I found docsblocks.com to have the adapter blocks like were shown earlier to connect the AC pump to o-ring fittings and then o-ring fittings to the 84. They also have a 'clip-n-go' connector system that uses a custom pliers to 'clip' a clamp the hoses. At any rate you can do a custom hose fabrication at home.

I just went to their web site and looked. This was a good find, as their prices were just a bit lower than ACsource.com. Thanks for putting this up for us all to read.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-01-2010).]

Here is a quote from an email exchange I had with Ed Parks on the A/C in his swaps. I haven't started mine yet, so I can't say if it works or not.

"We use the stock V6 a/c lines between the Caddy compressor and Fiero body. A slight "twist" is necessary to clear the Caddy mount (if engine is 91-93 Deville). Other Caddy 4.9's cannot use the V6 lines. A remade 85 4 cyl (only) line is necessary for Eldo, Seville, and 94-95 Deville mounts."

Hey Guys,

I too gotta get AC into my 4.9 setup. So, tell me why I should/shouldn't install the Fiero compressor I have sitting around?

I have been following the thread but haven't seen anything as to why we just wouldn't use the Fiero compressor. Ok...I did think of one thing...mounting the thing...but help me understand...

Thanks

T

Depends on what compressor you have. The Cadillac compressor is a HR 6 some fiero's used this same compressor, but with a different belt drive. Just switch out your clutch/pulleys and put it back on the Caddie mounts. If you had a V5 off of a 4 cyl 85-88's, it will require fabbing up brackets so the belt line up straight. Not as easy as it looks, as the belt MUST be straight, or it will not ever stay on the engine.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 04-27-2010).]

Many thanks Josef644

I'll double check later today but the compressor I have is from an V6 (86SE)

T

I copied this from the Fiero Sails Interchange guide:

"'85-87 2.8L: There is some confusion on our part about the compressor for these Fieros. The Hollander manuals say the compressor is the HR6HE (Harrison Redesigned High Efficiency 6 cylinder). The Pontiac "22P" manual refers to the compressor as the Harrison "DA6" (Downsized Axial 6 cylinder) and we believe the latter to be correct for the factory-installed unit. Our research indicates the exterior of the two compressors is identical. Our belief is the HR6HE is a recommended upgrade. The DA6 compressor has two electrical connections on the back end. Note that the DA6 is not considered a good candidate for conversion to R134-a refrigerant, probably because of the higher pressures encountered."

The Cadillac compressor 'should swap" over , but the switches will not be in the rear of the compressor.
"

hi guys, im the guy from canada that ordered those parts also.
cant figure out where to put that hi-pres switch in.
im thinking that it should be pre condensor, but can i just use the hi service port ?
would be nice if someone could add pics to this thread showing where they /how they finished theirs..

thanks for all the help
clynt

just had another look at the retro fitting and it looks like it fits on the service port.
do these interchange with any stock application??

[This message has been edited by hellbentkrusty (edited 07-20-2010).]

The high pressure switch goes on the hi side port

Can't say for sure - still have not got the AC up and running on our swap - it's too hot to work on the car! I have all the parts gathered up to get it done. I'll take pics as I go but it has to cool down here before I can get to work on it. I do believe that the hi side port is where the switch is supposed to go. Does your kit have a "tee" for the switch?

Pat I haven't got the high side switch for mine yet, so I don't know if it screws on or snaps onto the high side port. It will have to b go where it is made to attract on to the system . I will install it on the high pressure port, and then just route the two low pressure cycling switch threw the high side switch. It will be a normally closed switch, and will interrupt current flow if pressure gets to high.

Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 07-20-2010).]

Hey Guys....I am gonna join in your thread if you don't mind. I have a 4.9 and I gotta get some AC in my ride. Right now I do have access to an 86SE compressor and a compressor from another 4.9 I picked up.

ya im going to have to order the kit ,didnt realize that i would need it when i got the block and connectors.
the ac guys up here say it has to go pre condensor and that it wont work at that port.
on my 4.5 i used the fiero compressor so i didnt have that concern.
guess ill stay warm for a while now..

thanks ;clynt

[This message has been edited by hellbentkrusty (edited 07-20-2010).]