Last time (about a month ago) I had my car inspected, it failed due to a small leak in the exhaust and a sticking rear brake. I took it to a garage who knows quite a bit about Fieros and the guy showed me a couple of things of which he said should have been cause for a failed inspection also. What he showed me scared me a bit. Well, not what he showed me but the fact he told me it's actually quite dangerous to drive the car like this.
First of all, hurray for cellphones with macro-capable cameras (I took these pictures later at home with the wheel still on the car).
This is the driver's side mount in the wheel well (what is this thing called again?):
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
Next he showed me this (driver's side rear compartment above the wheel well) with the same stories of "Danger, Will Robinson!":
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
Like I said, I must admit it looks scary. He then continued to tell me he could repair it but that it would set me back thousands of Euros (1 Euro = US$1.40).
Now how bad is it really? Was he genuinely concerned with my safety or was he just trying to get his kids through college? Mind you, I put perhaps 2,000 miles on the Fiero each year.
And another thing, he also said I needed a new catalyst converter because it would otherwise fail inspection too because it has a lambda probe (if it didn't use a lambda probe, it would not fail because higher emissions would be allowed then). The thing that struck me a bit is that it only failed inspection on a small exhaust leak and a sticking brake, while this guy told me my car is basically a wreck...
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08:26 AM
PFF
System Bot
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
the upper mounts look kinda nasty, i personally would take them off and sandblast them to see how bad it really is, sometimes it can look alot worse then it really is.. rust likes to poof itself up sometimes... worse case im sure someone around here has some of them parts in good condition, as for whats under it, that could be be the bad part..
the truck area, that you might wana sand down, bondo up,and paint to prevent it from spreading, that metal is alot thinner then the front suspension pieces.
That is quite common on these cars and your's is not bad compared to most around here where they salt the roads, you can replace the front upper pieces if you can find better shape ones as they just bolt in and for the rear trunk area just clean up the rust and weld on a new piece of steel. Then pull the wheel well liners in the rear and see if there is any more rust to be dealt with as well as the area under the battery. If you do not have a welder or know some one who can weld it for you I would invest in a decent MIG welder and repair it your self as you can get a good welder and do a lot of repairs for a lot less then what the garage is quoting you for the repairs. Dan
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08:46 AM
Indiana_resto_guy Member
Posts: 7158 From: Shelbyville, IN USA Registered: Jul 2000
I think his business has been as slow as the economy. I suppose you could call the first shot of the left front the upper spring mount. While not in a dangerous state the spring should be removed as well as the upper mount and spring hat (those two items sandblasted clean and treated or replaced) and the mounting area cleaned of rust and repaired as necessary. (not dangerous at this point from the views provided - yet)
In the trunk what you are looking at is the result of the frame rail having a good amount of cancerous rust. You see write up on here all the time, those with the time and tools repair this themselves. It does involve a bit of disassembly to get to the ares, down to the removal of the rear clip for easy access to the effected area. I seem to recall someone saying that there is someone on the Forum fabricating frame rails so a replacement should not be a problem. Even if that is not true there are plenty of clean frame rails in the parts cars over here that can be used. I'm thinking that I have one here - actually both the required parts on a parts car. (not a safety issue)
Your exhaust leak, where is that at again?? Also what is a lambda probe? Is that an 02 sensor?
The trunk is better then almost any car Ive seen around here! I would just clean it up and patch it up to stop it from spreading.
The front crossmember does look a little nasty but I wouldnt be worried safety wise. I would maybe just clean them up and see how much steal is left and if there good give them a good coat of paint. The fierostore also sells reconditioned upper plates that you could just swap out.
For what it's worth, here's my two cents: The brackets are actually quite important as they are the main front crossmember mounts. Yours look like they'd survive a good sandblasting and re-use, if you can get the five bolts out without breaking them or your knuckles . I'd inspect them well for cracks or too much thinning once they've been cleaned up. They aren't the worst I've seen... these were on my '86 when I first bought it three years ago. I fabricated the new ones before I knew that you could get recondtioned ones at TFS:
As for rusty rear frames, don't despair. To inspect it properly, you'll have to remove the wheel well liner since the rust begins on the hidden side and eventually progresses through to the trunk side. Again, here's my '86 before the restoration:
In the worst case scenario like mine, you can fabricate cardboard templates of the frame rails, cut them out of plywood, and then form new metal over the wooden bucks to make replacement pieces. I'm not suggesting you'd have to go to these extremes, but wanted to show you what's in the realm of possible:
Finally, here's what it looked like as it was nearing completion. Obviously there's a section of the upper frame rail that is still missing, but once it's all welded back in it's almost as good as new.
I would replace the front suspension mounts asap. The trunk area is not structural, so it's not dangerous to drive it that way. But it will only get worse, so you should look into getting it fixed. If you pull the plastic inner liner you'll see exactly how bad it is (or isn't). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
This is where you separate the guys who can do metal work from the guys who can't.
Those rusted mounts should be cut out and sandblasted or replaced. The bolts are toast. A die grinder or the like and knock the heads off.
The frame rails are another story. You pretty well have to remove some body parts. You need a good welder. The replacement frame rails can be acquired from Rubyredfiero here in Canada. I don't know about shipping, but his prices are good at this end.
As soon as you show a Fiero to a body guy, he's going to estimate big because the car is an exotic to a body guy.
If you have access to a welder and a place to work, you can do it, but, you'll be cutting out bad metal and putting in good metal.
The other possibility for the frame rails is good old motor oil. Just soak it and leave it. That is not the best solution, but it is the cheapest solution and if the car is an occasional driver, it will last a good long time.. That is if the cancer hasn't become a structural issue.
It isn't good news, but, it is your chance to become proficient at body work
Arn
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05:35 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7799 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
I use a product called Rust-Mort by SEM Products. It is an acid based product that converts rust into a hard inert sustance. They use is on off-shore rigs where rust from salt water is always a problem. About every 4-5 years I go through and spray down my rails, trunk areas, battery area, floor drains, suspension and cradle. It's a liquid so I can use a trigger sprayer to get it into inaccessable areas.
I use it on my "detroit car" / winter beater, it's an excellent running car, very dependable in the worst of weather but it's nothing special to look at. I'm just trying to stave off the inevitable inspite of Detroit salted roads without having to replace frames and such. I mention this because it's an alternative way of looking at rust treatment. I definitely prefer Rust-Mort over Rust-Seal, much better performance.
While the fronts look bad I'd clean them up really good and see what it looks like. 50% of that is probably dirt and then the rest rust scale. Clean and chip away the loose stuff and see how it really looks. It would be good to remove them if your able but it will probably be work since the bolts are probably rusted in well.
There is more metal there than it looks like but cleaning will help determine how bad it is. If they can stay some good rust proofing would be in order. The rear rust is not near as dangerous but would be good to address.
I agree that the guy is trying to do a scare job but there is some truth to what he says. Still he is looking for work.
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06:35 PM
jimbolaya Member
Posts: 10652 From: Virginia Beach, Virginia Registered: Feb 2007
This is the driver's side mount in the wheel well (what is this thing called again?):
Wait a minute. Aren't you supposed to know everything? You did start this forum, didn't you? How can you start a Fiero forum and not know everything? You sir have just fell from your pedastool.
Jim
[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 08-29-2009).]
Those front pieces just unbolt, and you can bolt new ones in. The Fiero Store sells them, 57625 and 57626, $15 a piece.
My car has MUCH worse rust than that, and I drive it every day, in all weather. In fact your car doesn't look bad at all. A wire wheel and some POR15 will fix that right up, then take it to a wlder to patch the holes. Get at it now before it spreads. A few thousand to fix those two holes and two brackets is a major rip-off. Find a bodyshop with a competant welder and get an estimate.
That said, you may find a nasty suprise if you take out the rear fender wells and find what's left of the upper frame rails. I think I've only seen half a dozen cars on here with worse upper rails than my car.
The exhaust leak, I had a manifold with a hole in it removed, welded, and reinstalled for just over $100.
Bloozberry, that is some top-notch metal work you've done there! Being a west coast guy, any rust scares the heck out of me. I guess it's what you get used to seeing.
.. these were on my '86 when I first bought it three years ago. I fabricated the new ones before I knew that you could get recondtioned ones at TFS:
You guys that fabricate parts from scratch amaze me. I don't think I could ever do that.
I have frames on parts cars that look a lot better than that. It's not dangerous, but I would do as the others suggest and replace those parts on the front and clean up the back as well as you can.
p m sent , front crossmember mounts look a lot worse than it actually is, as regards to the the rear compartment again it only requires a plate to be put in, providing the chassis is in tact and the regulations in the u.k we have is;
to test the chassis is in good condition is to use your thumb and 1st finger and try to squeeze the chassis providing it feels solid then it is ok (dont try and squeeze to hard in case of being too rusty and accident occuring) many garages try to use hammers and screwdrivers this is not acceptable as the impact could accutally puncture/hole good metal.
also if the area of corrosion on the chassis is less than 300mm (30cm or 12 inches) from the suspension mount i.e point of impact from the shock asorber/coil spring, then the chassis will need to be fixed if it is holed.
judging by your pics the area in the rear is more than 300mm away from the shocker mount.
the dutch apk and the u.k mot (annual testing) is about the same
i think the garage is trying to screw you a little best of luck jon
p/s what has happened to fiero innovations in the netherlands
[This message has been edited by jon m (edited 08-31-2009).]
Hello, Sorry to bump this old thread but the rust in the pictures, is that below the battery box. I was just looking around my car and saw some bubbling and pulled the inner wheel well plastic off and saw what looked to be similar to that. The way I would describe it is it is the sheet metal that attaches to the frame. I understand that the pictures are on the drivers side but on the opposite side is what I am asking.
Thanks Vince
I will post pictures of the rust tomorrow for further inspection.
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12:53 AM
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Hello Rodney, could you offer these brackets with a sleeve for an extra one of the long upper control arm bolts. helping to brace the control arm, it would not pivot, it would help to give the upper control arm much, much more stability, with a shackle on each end instead of the washers. The sleeve on the upper crossmember is too short.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
This is the driver's side mount in the wheel well (what is this thing called again?):
it is bad but it can be fixed and not for thousands of euros. if you lived here I would fix it for you. but I will say this with you being the one who set up the great site, you have unlimited resorces here that are all willing to help keep your car on the road. good luck and keep us posted. D.
You sir have just fell from your pedastool. 
