i was gonna do my red and silver 86 gt to red with black replacing the silver. was just wondering if any one did thier own paint job how much did it cost and time it took to complete. also should i just tape everything up or take off all the body panels?
I am interested too. I plan on painting my car this winter and I was thinking about removing all the panels. I think it will look better when done, but that is me. Anybody have any experience.
ya the only thing i know i am absolutly not removing is the roof its way to fragile and i already broke the pillars of one so thats staying on no matter what.
I always take off everything but the roof panels. You have to keep in mind, if you're doing metallic or pearl you have to hang the panels to paint them in the same orientation as they are on the car (if you lay the side panels flat the metallic will settle & they'll be darker). Do a search with my username & you'll find LOTS of info about how to do it right*! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
* Others will say it's also "right" to paint it all together.... I'll do that on cars I don't really care about like my BMW: http://angelonearth.net/BMW.html (or cars that I'm striping - they have to be together to shoot the outside.)
I painted my car a single stage black i think the total was around 400 for paint, mask, filters, assortment of sand paper, and a paper suit. It turned out pretty bad (lots of orange peel) I wish i would have spent a little more and did base clear i think it would have turned out better. In a couple years I will paint it again base clear and it will be better.
I painted my car a single stage black i think the total was around 400 for paint, mask, filters, assortment of sand paper, and a paper suit. It turned out pretty bad (lots of orange peel) I wish i would have spent a little more and did base clear i think it would have turned out better. In a couple years I will paint it again base clear and it will be better.
If you put enough paint on it (you did use urethane, right?) you can sand & buff it & make it slick. Better to use base/clear, but solid colors can be shot single stage & buffed out to look great. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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11:10 AM
Blue87Fiero Member
Posts: 245 From: Onsted, Michigan, U.S.A Registered: Mar 2009
Yup I used a single stage urethane I know I can I sand and buff it only because I asked you when i did it. I never bothered to do because I need a new hood and deck lid and I hate sanding. I wanna do a deck lid scoop sometime so im just gonna what and redo my car with most the panels off in a couple years when i get a new hood and deck lid. I new my first time wouldn't turn out real good. It is more or less just to get me by because at the time my car was three different color.
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12:45 PM
notwohorns Member
Posts: 1175 From: greenville, il. usa Registered: Jul 2009
"Tha Driver" i for one would like to thank you for all of your help that you have posted in all of the different threads. you mention that you use epoxy primer. i was wondering if one needs to use a flex agent? thanks again
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03:04 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
The single stage you have will be blacker and darker if you sand and buff it than black with clearcoat. Clear on black makes it have a cloudy, greyish look. Most may not notice the subtle difference but side by side your black will be much nicer. If it dont make that much difference to you in appearance, I will give you that the clearcoat black will be a bit more durable and take a little less care. You only need to add flex to the front and rear bumper covers, and thats really only if you take them off to paint. That just give you some more flexiblity to assemble it and evaporates out of the paint in a week or two anyhow. The body panels dont need any kind of additives.
a friend of my brothers had a painting class and they did a contest to see wwhich would look better, single stage or clear w/w base. He won using single stage, but he also might have been a more talented painter. Point is it can look good wither way you go!
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03:58 PM
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jaskispyder Member
Posts: 21510 From: Northern MI Registered: Jun 2002
a friend of my brothers had a painting class and they did a contest to see wwhich would look better, single stage or clear w/w base. He won using single stage, but he also might have been a more talented painter. Point is it can look good wither way you go!
With single stage, don't you have to keep up the paint through more waxing and such?
J.
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04:39 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Like i said, single stage does require a bit more work to keep up. Ive done my own show cars both with clearcoats and single stages. They lasted just as well. I never wax my cars, I just keep them clean and polished. I painted my AMG Mercedes SL red single stage in about 1992 (?) and the present owner still shows it. If single stage does fade, usually easy to bring it right back up with a rubbout. Ive done my planes in Acrylic Enamel single stage and Urathane Imron and both held up about the same sitting out 24/7 in all kinds of weather with no wax. For the planes, I saw no reason to justify the extra cost of the Imron. I will say I never did any planes, mine or customer, in basecoat/clearcoats. I dont even know if any aircraft manufactures use it. The costs of doing that would be outta sight. I couldnt even imagine the cost of a 55 gal drum of clearcoat urathane ($8000.00 ? ).
"Tha Driver" i for one would like to thank you for all of your help that you have posted in all of the different threads. you mention that you use epoxy primer. i was wondering if one needs to use a flex agent? thanks again
No problem, glad I can help. PPG epoxy primer (DP) does not need a flex agent; you use the 401 catalyst (but it needs an induction period - read the tech sheet). Of course, you can use the 401 on all of the panels. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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09:08 PM
Apr 23rd, 2010
masospaghetti Member
Posts: 2477 From: Charlotte, NC USA Registered: Dec 2009
How much did you want to spend? I roller-painted my Fiero (also red, coincidentally) for about $60 and I'm happy with the results. Not perfect, but i had never painted before and i've gotten a lot of compliments about it. Nobody believes I rolled it on. I took off the door trim but left on the grey molding around the bottom, and just taped it off. I posted some pics of my car on another thread if you are interested, just search for it.
well i went to a GM dealer body shop they quoted me 5k and i was nice and siad id come back when i had the money but HA thats way out there. i just want a decent paint job plain red and black and clear coat. i dont want no macco job if ya catch my drift. any where from 500 to 1000 if some one else is gonna do it as for if i was gonna do it 300 to 500 in paint and supplies.
well i went to a GM dealer body shop they quoted me 5k and i was nice and siad id come back when i had the money but HA thats way out there. i just want a decent paint job plain red and black and clear coat. i dont want no macco job if ya catch my drift. any where from 500 to 1000 if some one else is gonna do it as for if i was gonna do it 300 to 500 in paint and supplies.
$500 to $1,000 gets you a Maaco job. I've decided to do "scuff & douche" jobs (like Roger does) if anyone wants one; that'll cost around $1,800 to $2,000, red costs a little more. For most street cars it'll look better than most shops' work & as good as most show cars (most folks can't tell the difference anyway). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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01:42 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I do the so called 'douche' jobs if you want it for $500 each all day long in any factory colors...single stage acrylic enamel or base/clear. No color sanding, no buffing. No body work and you get it back in 2 days. thats a scuffsand, mask and spray. I still guarantee no peeling for as long as you own it or I fix it. If your charging $1800 for that your the major rip off. I did a show job on the top half of a C4 Corvette for $1200 and Im the crook ...?
And for driver, those are for people who just want to paint a driver car and buy here pay here car lots
*deletet*
Ill just say, I still have so many previous happy customers bringing stuff by in my retirement, I cant do stuff I want to do. I have a real place of business and been here for many years. If Drivers work and ability is soooo good, why dont you have a great paying job...or a job at all. If you were 1/2 as talented as you try to show yourself, body shops would be beating your door down to work for them. I have people tracking me down to do things for them. I know other shops that would pay a few grand a week around here if you were that good. One friend of mine quit his $1500-2000 collision repair job to work at home. Theyve tried to get me to replace him and Im not interested because I want to play on my time.
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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body... specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 45 years Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Body Repair Approved ____________________________________________
toys: '66 custom Dodge 'Super Bee' '92 rare Firebird T/A conv of 1325..FOR SALE
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-23-2010).]
I do the so called 'douche' jobs if you want it for $500 each all day long in factory colors...single stage acrylic enamel or base/clear. No color sanding, no buffing. No body work and you get it back in 2 days. I still guarantee no peeling for as long as you own it or I fix it.
Well I'm talking (for 2 grand) about sanded & buffed base/clear jobs. They'd look as good as your $3500 jobs that you don't take the car apart to shoot.
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: And for driver, those are for people who just want to paint a driver car and buy here pay here car lots. My better customers that Ive had for years get much better work. I do work for local Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes and domestic dealers. I do those for private owners Ive known for many years of repeat business too. I did full out custom jobs including 5-10 custom van conversions a week for a local converter. I did that for over 11 years for him. I painted factory and custom aircraft for Aero Commander in Bethel Okla. I learned flames and candies from Gene Winfield and mural airbrushing from Juan Parker and Jan Wisecarver. I attended paint and body seminars conducted by the factories for Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche to be certified. Im published in custom vehicle books showcaseing my work. I dont cut corners by painting a bullseye in the middle of a panel like some people that should be properly done. I know just a little bit. Ya, I can toot my own horn.
And yet you still use laquer primer & can't blend clear urethane.... ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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08:07 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Again, then why cant you get a job doing it. The guys that invented the 'blending' technique cant do it, and proved they cant at least a few times here in my shop. So no, you cant do it either. And yes, lots of shops use acrylic laquer primer. I gave catalyzed primers more than one chance and theyve proven to be crap. Im so sick of listening to your mindless drivel and when I get the urge I love calling you out on any of it. Catalyzed primer is good for one thing..... primering a stripped or blasted old rusty body to preserve it. Its nothing but another headache for anything else. I wont even accept a job someones primered at home with it. Ill just say it AGAIN. Why cant you get a good paying job doing all the stuff you say you can....i say because they all think your full of crap too. .
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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body... specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 45 years Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Body Repair Approved ____________________________________________
toys: '66 custom Dodge 'Super Bee' '92 rare Firebird T/A conv of 1325..FOR SALE
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08:34 PM
IMSA GT Member
Posts: 10268 From: California Registered: Aug 2007
Again, then why cant you get a job doing it. The guys that invented the 'blending' technique cant do it, and proved they cant at least a few times here in my shop. So no, you cant do it either. And yes, lots of shops use acrylic laquer primer. I gave catalyzed primers more than one chance and theyve proven to be crap. Im so sick of listening to your mindless drivel and when I get the urge I love calling you out on any of it. Catalyzed primer is good for one thing..... primering a stripped or blasted old rusty body to preserve it. Its nothing but another headache for anything else. I wont even accept a job someones primered at home with it. Ill just say it AGAIN. Why cant you get a good paying job doing all the stuff you say you can....i say because they all think your full of crap too. .
So now you're just outright calling me a freakin' LIAR???? And I'M the one with "mindless drivel"? I don't go out & get a job 'cause I spent 35 years doing body, frame, & paint working for other people (most of them assholes like you), & I ruined my back, knees, wrists, & just about all of the rest of my body doing it. I'm perfectly content to work the hours I choose - right here in my own shop - working on my brother's cars, my friends' cars, & my projects. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Every day of my life forces me to add to the list of people that can KISS MY ASS!
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11:15 PM
Apr 24th, 2010
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Ya, your either a liar or dont know what your talking about.
First get this straight since you apparently cant or dont read either. I never said I CANT blend urathane clear. Ive had 3 different manufacturers guys 'demo' TO ME how to use their product on my customer job...GET IT !!!...I DIDNT do squat except the initial prep. None of them were acceptable to me. The times I have done it were just as good or better than THEIR results. NONE of those results were acceptable for my jobs. So that makes me among the top painters in the country (as far as manufacturers painters). Hardened paint is hardened paint and new paint wont blend or melt into it...end of story. Its like blending into porcelin...dont happen no matter how much you tell me you do it. If its good enough for you or your customer...great. Its NOT good enough for me. Like Ive told you before, you do it your way, Ill do it mine....just dont be telling people your way is the only correct way to do anything. Your way in anything is NOT the best way for everything no matter how perfect you think you are. I never claim my way is the only way for anything, I only say what works for me and has worked for me for over 40 years. I have a longtime successful business because I know what Im doing and do it well. I dont have to work for a azzhole boss who dont know paint from plaster. If I didnt know how to do it, I wouldnt have repeat customers that keep coming back for 30 years. They like the work and the prices or they would be going elsewhere, just as I would. Tell me about how your health is so bad from doing this work like Id care. Ive been doing it longer than you and never hardly even put on a mask till cataylzed paint came out. Guess what, my last physical at the hospital says Im healthier than most 40 year olds. I never even take aspirin, so dont cry to me about how all the mean bosses are jerks and killing you. You fail to mention how its affected your vision too since you cant see too well either. Chose a profession thats not so hard on you like delivering Pizza.
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ya, your either a liar or dont know what your talking about.
Well that would be a negatory on both counts. I don't lie, & apparently I can paint circles around you.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: First get this straight since you apparently cant or dont read either. I never said I CANT blend urathane clear. Ive had 3 different manufacturers guys 'demo' TO ME how to use their product on my customer job...GET IT !!!...I DIDNT do squat except the initial prep. None of them were acceptable to me. The times I have done it were just as good or better than THEIR results. NONE of those results were acceptable for my jobs. So that makes me among the top painters in the country (as far as manufacturers painters).
You've said REPEATEDLY that NO ONE can, & now you say you CAN but choose not to? I guess that makes you the greatest painter in the WORLD!!!
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: Hardened paint is hardened paint and new paint wont blend or melt into it...end of story. Its like blending into porcelin...dont happen no matter how much you tell me you do it. If its good enough for you or your customer...great. Its NOT good enough for me. Like Ive told you before, you do it your way, Ill do it mine....just dont be telling people your way is the only correct way to do anything.
Have you ever seen urethane paint damaged by brake fluid? Still say it's hard as porcelain & nothing can soften it??? I guess your way of blending is correct even though your results are not good enough for your customers. At least my way you CAN'T see the blend line AT ALL like you can in your blends. Sooo.... if my way you can't tell it's been blended, & your way it's painfully obvious, I guess my way juuust MIGHT be the RIGHT way after all.
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: Your way in anything is NOT the best way for everything no matter how perfect you think you are. I never claim my way is the only way for anything, I only say what works for me and has worked for me for over 40 years. I have a longtime successful business because I know what Im doing and do it well. I dont have to work for a azzhole boss who dont know paint from plaster. If I didnt know how to do it, I wouldnt have repeat customers that keep coming back for 30 years. They like the work and the prices or they would be going elsewhere, just as I would. Tell me about how your health is so bad from doing this work like Id care.
Yeah it's pretty obvious you don't care - about anyone but yourself. But you DID ask so I told you.
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive been doing it longer than you and never hardly even put on a mask till cataylzed paint came out.
That's because you had people working for you killing themselves while you raked in the cash. (You've bragged about making $200,000 a year I KNOW you didn't do that working all by your little ole' self.)
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Guess what, my last physical at the hospital says Im healthier than most 40 year olds. I never even take aspirin, so dont cry to me about how all the mean bosses are jerks and killing you. You fail to mention how its affected your vision too since you cant see too well either. Chose a profession thats not so hard on you like delivering Pizza.
Yeah I don't doubt that (see above). My vision is pretty typical of a mid-fifties man: I need glasses to see detail. I'll put on two pair if I have to & you can too & you STILL won't be able to see where I blend clear.
You know: you're typical of 90% of the assholes in this country that's either been born with a silver spoon or just had great luck. Get over yourself & try to have some compassion for others once in a while. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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03:41 AM
thefredman Member
Posts: 200 From: Farmland Indiana Registered: Oct 2008
Hey driver........have you heard much about the Duplicolor Paint Shop series of paint? If i use it should I use their brand of primer? Could you give me a rough idea of how much paint I will need to paint my Fiero? thanks steve (thefredman)
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07:53 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I only had 2 people ever work for me...No one else did anything up to my standard. Only one that did great was a girl I hired to mask. She made $25 per van @ 5 a day. I was very pleased with her work and she was happy to make $600 @ week still in high school. I keep all my money because I do all the work from paperwork to polishing. When I do it myself, I dont have to rely on anyone else screwing it up. Ive always guaranteed everything Ive done for as long as they owned it except for when it was stated otherwise. Due to harsh enviornment, no one warrantys planes over a stipulated period of time.
and yet again you didnt read what I wrote. I do the blends as well as the paint company experts that they sent to demonstrate their product. AGAIN, neither my or their job was acceptable to me. I reclear whole panel to a break or dont bother with it. My blends and theirs was probably as good as yours, but to you thats apparenly acceptable.
Im surprised he got banned too. Maybe the ban was meant for me because I stick to my guns and wont give up something Im right on.
You can keep on going all you want, Ive got plenty of time and love arguing with people I dont agree with.
Hey driver........have you heard much about the Duplicolor Paint Shop series of paint? If i use it should I use their brand of primer? Could you give me a rough idea of how much paint I will need to paint my Fiero? thanks steve (thefredman)
Duplicolor is laquer - 1950s technology - I would stay away from it. If you want good paint cheap, I use Dupont Nason base/clear. But I still use PPG epoxy primer under it to insure longevity (better adhesion). ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
and yet again you didnt read what I wrote. I do the blends as well as the paint company experts that they sent to demonstrate their product. AGAIN, neither my or their job was acceptable to me. I reclear whole panel to a break or dont bother with it. My blends and theirs was probably as good as yours, but to you thats apparenly acceptable.
No, you're the one who doesn't read. I can blend where you don't see it - never see it. You (& the factory reps you've used) can't. Your work is nowhere NEAR acceptable to me!
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Originally posted by rogergarrison: You can keep on going all you want, Ive got plenty of time and love arguing with people I dont agree with.
I can see that. Yet more proof of what an azzhole you are. Love to argue (& call people liars) just to piss people off; don't want to learn anything. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 04-24-2010).]
Ill just say, I still have so many previous happy customers bringing stuff by in my retirement, I cant do stuff I want to do. I have a real place of business and been here for many years. If Drivers work and ability is soooo good, why dont you have a great paying job...or a job at all. If you were 1/2 as talented as you try to show yourself, body shops would be beating your door down to work for them. I have people tracking me down to do things for them. I know other shops that would pay a few grand a week around here if you were that good. One friend of mine quit his $1500-2000 collision repair job to work at home. Theyve tried to get me to replace him and Im not interested because I want to play on my time.
I have people tracking me down to. Folks that bring me their cars from all over the south east, & as far away as Ohio. So lets see: you're doing the SAME thing I'm doing. Semi-retired & working in your own shop on your own schedule & not willing to go out & get a job working for someone else & YOU PUT ME DOWN FOR DOING IT???? Can you be more hypocritical? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
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02:15 PM
olejoedad Member
Posts: 18040 From: Clarendon Twp., MI Registered: May 2004
I didnt have a silver spoon or anything handed to me ever. I paid for my own first bicycle and car. I worked for others only to learn and after I learned it, I did everything on my own. No one has ever helped me. Never borrowed a dime for my business. Ive worked many 14-20 hour days and nites for 40 years to get what I have. No relatives ever gave me a dime. In fact both my parents passed away without any kind of life insurance...so not even a penny of inheiritance. I got a reputation for being good and fair so more and more flocked to me. Just last year I accepted doing a paint job on a vette a guy had another shop do his body and 2K primer work on. He just wanted my paint on it. The primer screwed up bad under the urathane after I finished and buffed it out. I stripped the whole car back down to beneath the 2K AND redid all his body work and then REFINISHED the car the second time that turned out fantastic. I didnt charge him a penny more than my original quote for the first time. I ate the material cost for both paint jobs and threw in all the body work for free. I dont think you can find another shop anywhere that would have done that. An ******* would have double charged him or told him to get the hell out. Your just bitter because I made a successful business and you cant. You just have to be the one thats right and I see people like that everyday. In your mind, nothing you can do can possibly be wrong for anyone....you should run for president. Worked for Obama.
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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body... specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 45 years Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Body Repair Approved ____________________________________________
Originally posted by Tha Driver: . So lets see: you're doing the SAME thing I'm doing. Semi-retired & working in your own shop on your own schedule & not willing to go out & get a job working for someone else & YOU PUT ME DOWN FOR DOING IT???? Can you be more hypocritical? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
I worked for retirement, now trying to enjoy that by NOT working by choice. Your the one whining about how you got shafted by everyone else and cant make any money obecause people that know what theyre doing made more than you. Ive saved for my retirement and got my Soc Sec. Why would I want to downgrade myself to be common labor again dumb azz. My job now is to lean back in the recliner and screw off as much as possible, play with my toys and travel around to big car shows. I got tired of fixing other peoples stuff. Thats what retired is dummy....look it up. Or does your def of hypocrite mean the same as retired. If your retired too, then quit complaining because you didnt save any money for it and Ill take that part back.
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08:39 PM
Blue87Fiero Member
Posts: 245 From: Onsted, Michigan, U.S.A Registered: Mar 2009
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Your the one whining about how you got shafted by everyone else and cant make any money obecause people that know what theyre doing made more than you.
WHAT??? Where the hell did you get THAT??? I can't make money when folks come to me from several states over for paint work? I spend my time working on what I want by CHOICE. My projects are ART, & it's what I choose to do. Just because I can blend urethane clear & you can't; & I use better materials for jobs that last longer than yours, you just want to insult me & make up crap. Yeah, you really know what you're doing - as long as it's 1950's technology. I'm done responding to your BS. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
