Click here to visit the donation page | View all sponsors
  Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
   Paint

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


Paint by raysr11
Started on: 01-20-2010 10:00 PM
Replies: 16
Last post by: rogergarrison on 01-22-2010 09:22 AM
raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2010 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

I see there are some pro-painters on this board. Yesterday I responded to a post about how good my paint job was and that I paid $2750 for it. This was supposed to this guy's "used car quality" paint job. He had some cars he was selling and I took a look at them and they looked real good. Paint shops around here are expensive. I got estimates from $5000 and $4000 when I found this guy. So I didn't have the $4000 but I could squeeze the $2750. It took him 2 months to paint my Fiero, ALL summer.
It was still real hot here when I started noticing blisters on the front of the car. Then some more. And from day one the surface around the lock on the engine lid was screwed up. So I took the car back and he told me to wait until the weather cooled off.
So after it cooled off took it back and he said he must not have gotten it sanded properly in these areas and took it back in and fixed it. Fine, swell. He indicted that if anything else came up I was on my own because this was a "used car" paint job, not his best which I was afraid to ask the price of .
So today the weather was nice and I took the car out for a drive and stopped to get a soda. When I came back out the sun was just right, and there were blisters everywhere! I could even see sanding patches on the hood.
Needless to say, I flipped out. I haven't called him yet but I think I'll have to sue him. Before I contact him maybe someone here knows whats causing the GD blisters. I'm going to take it to another shop anonymously and ask them what could cause it. I don't have the money to pay to get it done again. I feel like I might has well went went to Maaco.

So if anyone can help me with this, please give me some ideas. Oh, I don't own a gun so that's out!

IP: Logged

Tony Kania
Member

Posts: 19995
From: The Inland Northwest
Registered: Dec 2008


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 302
Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2010 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaDirect Link to This Post

Document everything! Start a folder tonight. Put everything pertaining to this situation down on paper. In your own words also. Courts are sticklers for information. And they like it when a plantiff is prepared. Hopefully you will not have to sue, but just in case. A real PITA, but you want to be prepared.

Sorry to hear about your paint. I am sure that if I were to pay that for a paint job, I too would be upset. Good idea to go around and get an estimate or to. I would not mention this to the other shops. A lot of painters seem to know a lot of painters.

Tony

IP: Logged

jetsnvettes2000
Member

Posts: 3309
From: Menasha,Wisconsin,USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2010 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Direct Link to This Post

k yes their are a few of us that paint for a living here but first alittle more info
peel off some of the loose paint that hasent been broken yet meaning a solid bubble and smell the back side, does it smell like solvent and is it damp?
2 take a pic of it and were it came from,
3 is their primer over the old paint job?
4 take a rag w some acetone(nail polish remover) and rub one of the peeled spots does the primer wash off down to the old paint?
5 ask him what brand of paint he used and what its chemical make up is for example: autocryl, polyurathane, laqure, enamel??

from that we should be able to get an idea of what he did instead of a bunch of people just guess'n
also what was original color and what is new color some old gm's had delamination problems and possibly the solvent in the new paint caused the old paint to soften and lift under it and in the sun inflate like a ballon

IP: Logged

raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2010 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

This guy has all the old paint codes and supposedly some type of hi-tech mixer. He's not just some guy doing it in his back yard. He does restorations and so on, that's why I felt comfortable when he said he'd fix it the first time. It took time for these blisters to show. The color is '69 Camaro Rally Green, beautiful color with silver ground effects. He admitted the first time that he hadn't prepped it right because there was something under the original paint, and that it could've been repainted at some point. Original was silver. I am sick over this. It's really a stand out color.
I understand about not telling another shop who painted it, and yes, these guys do know one another. They're like doctors and lawyers, they'll never put down another pro's work.
I'm not going to pick it apart until I get some answers from another shop , then from him. I like the guy but $3000 is alot of cash for me. Thank's for the replies. If I knew how to post a pix I'd show you what it looks like. No pix of the bad spots yet.

IP: Logged

jetsnvettes2000
Member

Posts: 3309
From: Menasha,Wisconsin,USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-20-2010 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Direct Link to This Post

posting pics isnt to hard just go to bottom of page and click on penocks image poster download it and then follow the directions for using it
also when u post a pic make shure the pics are 640x720 somthin like that
the program has a size limit
far as the paint he should have known just in his prep it was repainted or not try and post some pics and did you go smell your paint??? sounds wierd but u can tell alot what the conditions are like under it
and does it strech or does it crumble is you try to pull it apart??
really id need to know the manufacture of the paint their is so many paint companys that suply paint mixing systems to the shops ask what type of paint it is
does it have a seprate clear coat or is it a autocryl single stage? it could be not compatible w the stuff on the car.

IP: Logged

raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

This is the guy http://www.nwtinman.com/.

[This message has been edited by raysr11 (edited 01-21-2010).]

IP: Logged

Macs86GT
Member

Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 07:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTDirect Link to This Post

Find out if he is a licensed shop. If not he can get into serious trouble. If he is a licensed shop he can be held liable for the work he did just document everything get your receipts in a row write down what you remember of the conversations about the initial painting agreement, and the repair work done to the car. Memorize your side of the story and do not change it, force him to prove you wrong. This is if it goes to court, and honestly it looks like it will due to the way he responded after fixing the car. He strikes me as one of those fix em up cheap and hope it lasts past the legal guarantee period in some states when buying a used car type.

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 08:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

Cheap paint jobs will fade, & maybe peel. But no paintjob should bubble. If the car had been painted before, he should have told you if he thought it *may* be a problem, & refused to paint the car without stripping it first (adding to the cost). Did he seal it before painting it? How was it prepped (sanded, de-waxed, etc.)?
Bottom line is he should be responsible for his work; if he's not willing to strip off ALL the bubbling paint & re-paint it right free of charge, he should be made to pay for someone else to do it.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

If you can't take the heat, get out of the nuclear reactor.

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

I do cheaper 'Car Lot' jobs for less than $1,000. $3000 job is at the upper end of my normal jobs, so most fall in between. Some are really high end if thats what you want to pay for. Paint blistering or peeling is only from 2 causes. One is paint job underneath his is peeling. Thats easy to determine. Did his paint come off the paint job it used to be or off the Original factory paint. ILL assume your car was not the original paint, If its coming off of the original paint, thats really not going to be his fault unless you specified you wanted all the other repaint removed first. If only his paint is peeling, its his fault. The other cause therefore is he did not prep the surface before he painted it. I see lots of shops, especially dealers cut corners by NOT sanding the surface at all. Some even just spray an 'adhesion agent' on it and expect it to stay. It HAS to be sanded or scuffed. Since its peeling around things like locks, just sounds to me like he did a quick scuff n sand and didnt do a very thorough job. If you didnt get written warranty, your not likely to get anything done. If its something his fault ...and he did give you a guarantee..., which i suspect it is, you could take him to small claims court if he refuses to fix it.

------------------

Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Body Repair Approved
____________________________________________

toys: '66 custom Dodge 'Super Bee'
'92 rare Firebird T/A conv of 1325..FOR SALE

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-21-2010).]

IP: Logged

raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 03:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

Thanks for all the replies. I bought the car from a private party and had it 9 month's before getting it painted. I don't know if it'd been repainted entirely. He noted that some parts had been repainted. He took responsibility for the repair the first time it blistered. Now the blistering is worse than before. It was isolated to the front of the care primarily around an on the headlite doors. Now it's everywhere. Windshield supports, top, almost everywhere except the the engine lid. I don't know whether to go see him or go to another shop first not mentioning his name.
When I've spoken to him in the past he keeps repeating the "used car paint job" line as if to not get my hopes up for a "restoration" job. If you look at his site above he seems legit.

IP: Logged

skuzzbomer
Member

Posts: 7491
From: Nashville
Registered: Sep 2009


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 92
Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for skuzzbomerSend a Private Message to skuzzbomerDirect Link to This Post

If you think it may take some legal action, then you need to document everything.

Take a ton of pictures. Multiple angles on as many of the bubbles as possible. Put a ruler next to a few of the really bad ones, so you can give people a clear understanding of how bad the problem is.

If you need to, you could email me a few pics and I could post them. (I usually use Imageshack.us - which is really simple to deal with)

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

Look carefully where its peeling and see if it smooth and shiney. It should look all scratched up and dull. If its shiney, it wasnt sanded period. Then you have to determine, like I said, if he didnt sand it , or the previous paint job under it was not sanded. Do you know if the car was the original factory paint, or had it already been repainted before he done it ? Thats the key thing here. If you just wanted to paint over a repainted job, he cant be responsible if the repaint under his peels. If he painted over the original paint and it had not been ever repainted, its his fault. If its only been repaired before you got it and some panels repainted, is the peeling only on a few panels or all over ? If you go to court, take pics and a few written statements or estimates from other local shops as to the cause of the problems. If its peeling because it wasnt prepped, they will know in a second just by looking at it and give you something to stand on.

One of the girls got a brand new car a few months ago. Someone bumped into the corner of the bumper. It not only scraped off the paint, but knocked a chunk of body filler out of it. I wrote her a statement to take to court when the dealer refused to replace it. I wrote the impact was so slight it should have done no damage except minor paint scrape. I said it obviously had been damaged and repaired before she bought it (brand new) and peeled off a chunk and put it in a zip lock bag to back up my claim. Judge made the dealer replace her bumper with a new one. Its all about documentation.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-21-2010).]

IP: Logged

raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

Why does it take a couple of months for this to show up? When I picked it up after the repair it looked great. Then, almost instantly, you're looking at blisters, sanding patches and other f-ups.
I drive it so little it doesn't even have a scratch on it. Covered 24-7. I have 2 car covers which breath, I don't use them at the same time. I bring one in to dry after awhile so the green slime doesn't get it. It rains so much here that I put a waterproof tarp over the engine lid and sunroof. I have outside cats that would destroy it w/o covers.
Any ideas on why it blistered in different places this time from the last?

IP: Logged

Tha Driver
Member

Posts: 4544
From: S.E. USA
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score:    (46)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 203
Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

Paint blisters for a number of reasons, but mostly because there is trapped solvent under the paint. That can be from a myriad of things, but usually it's a reaction of the paint under the blister (new paint or primer soaking into old paint), or trapped solvents because primer or paint was not allowed to dry adequately before painting over it.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Angels at the back door, everything is alright, all we need is some direction.
Every time the wind blows, everything we don't know turns into a revelation.
And it all adds up inside our head....
Time is wastin'...

IP: Logged

jetsnvettes2000
Member

Posts: 3309
From: Menasha,Wisconsin,USA
Registered: Dec 2009


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jetsnvettes2000Send a Private Message to jetsnvettes2000Direct Link to This Post

lol wow all of us painters finally agree on somthin about the paint here!! sounds like we r all thinkin same thing gassin and poor adheshion/prep!

IP: Logged

raysr11
Member

Posts: 1254
From: Concrete, WA
Registered: Nov 2008


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post01-21-2010 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for raysr11Send a Private Message to raysr11Direct Link to This Post

I can't explain how much I appreciate all this help.
I took the car down today to a different shop and they took one look and said "water". So I took it to the guy who painted it and he's going to make good on it. I feel like a jerk for thinking he'd screw me but these days it's hard to find someone you can trust. Also, I've sent him alot of work unknowingly as the car is really a stand-out around here. Only 2 or 3 Fieros I've seen besides mine.
He did say that he's only experienced this 3 other times, all with cars that get covered. So he recommended that after this next stripping to not cover it. I didn't ask for how long. I've got 3 outside cats that would rather scratch up my Fiero that eat. So that's going to be an issue.
Thanks again to everyone who responded.

IP: Logged

rogergarrison
Member

Posts: 49490
From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 553
Rate this member

Report this Post01-22-2010 09:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post

I usually recommend not putting a cover on a new paint job for 60-90 days at least. I personally dont follow my own rule much. I just painted the roof on the Coronet, let it set inside my heated garage for a week, and put it outside under a cover. I did the same thing on my Firebirds hood. I do have the benefit that I can fix it if it messes up. So far so good.

IP: Logged




All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock