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4.9 Oil Bypass Modification by josef644
Started on: 11-11-2009 05:44 PM
Replies: 15
Last post by: josef644 on 11-14-2009 08:12 PM
josef644
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Report this Post11-11-2009 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
This is not a pro and con over wheather or not to do the bypass, and I ask that you do not take this thread there. If you want to know how to do the bypass, read on.

When I jumped on the 4.9 swap I hadn't heard of having to do a modification to the oil filter adapter to bypass the oil cooler. Mickey-Moose or Fieroguru mentioned to me about doing it and offered up this site: http://www.westcoastfiero.c...l_filter_bypass.html
It didnt tell you much about how to do this. I want to add some information for others thinking about a 4.9 swap, and doing the oil cooler bypass. This adapter is made from cast aluminum and is easy to drill out.

I used compressed air to blow as much 'muck' from the area I would be working on as was possable. You will have to remove the oil filter adapter from the engine. My oil pressure sending unit for the gauge used a 9/16" wrench to take it off of the adapter.

A 15mm wrench is all else that was needed to take the adapter off of the engine. There are two bolts holding it on. The one closer to the distributor does not have to be removed all the way, just back it out about 1/2" or so. Its hole on the adapter is slotted. The other bolt is a long one and it needs to be taken all the way out. You will see this, where the adapter was. Notice the one bolt still in the engine. And the oil 'Mud' That will need to be removed:

I used vice gripes to remove the bypass valve.

Note the slotted mounting hole on the left:

Remove the rubber plug next to the long bolt moung part. I just used a small flat blade ot loosen it up, and my thumb nail to lift it out of its bore:

The bit is inserted at an odd angle,from where the seal was removed, to follow the oil passage way in the adapter. I only had about 1/2" of the bits in my drill press, as I didn't want the chuck touching the seal seating surface. Bit just started inside the adapter A 9/32" bit was the size of the hole at first. I made a fist cut with it:

I worked up the sizes one bit at a time untill I got to a 3/8". This was the last size I used. It was the same size as was the inside of the metal pipe sticking up from the engine:

I ran the 3/8 bit till it touched the bottom of the oil passageway. You can see the bit threw the hole where the bypass valve was removed from:


I will clean and paint this piece before I reinstall it. I am gonna reuse the rubber seal I removed. There isn't a gasket needed.
This is a direct quote from EdParks at the Fiereo Factory . I think I read this on Cadero, but its been to long now to remember where. I cut and pasted it in an e-mail to my self:
"use 2 Dorman #090-040 20mm-1.5 drain plugs with a liberal amount of Permatex on the threads" Less problems with leaks I think he said.
Any other suggestions are welcomed
Joe Crawford

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-13-2009).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post11-12-2009 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseDirect Link to This Post


edit: BTW, do you mind if I add this to my 4.9 thread (just to keep all the info in one spot)?

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 11-12-2009).]

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post11-12-2009 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
I just wonder why the oil cooler was used by GM? In theory it should provide longer engine life but its really hard to make a comparison unless we look at it over the long run..

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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josef644
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Report this Post11-12-2009 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:



edit: BTW, do you mind if I add this to my 4.9 thread (just to keep all the info in one spot)?



Be my guest M_M
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josef644
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Report this Post11-12-2009 11:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post

josef644

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Member since Nov 2006
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I just wonder why the oil cooler was used by GM? In theory it should provide longer engine life but its really hard to make a comparison unless we look at it over the long run..



Dennis , my Haynes for the Deville states that the oil cooler is in the radiator. So it is kept at about 192*. I wounder how hot is would be with out the oil cooler. I know that there are as many up and running with out it , as is with a cooler rigged up.

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-12-2009).]

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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post11-12-2009 11:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
I had considered this when doing my 4.9. My idea was a little different though. I was just going to weld the inlet and outlet tubes together at the filter housing. Basically just close the loop eliminating the oil cooler from the setup. Then if I wanted to add a cooler later I could without getting an new oil filter housing. I ended up just adding the cooler instead. I didn't look into it much but I thought the bypass was there not only to move oil to the cooler but also protect from a plugged or damaged filter. Anyone know for sure?

Joe: I'm just trying to get the info. I don't mean to offend.
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josef644
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Report this Post11-12-2009 12:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:

I had considered this when doing my 4.9. My idea was a little different though. I was just going to weld the inlet and outlet tubes together at the filter housing. Basically just close the loop eliminating the oil cooler from the setup. Then if I wanted to add a cooler later I could without getting an new oil filter housing. I ended up just adding the cooler instead. I didn't look into it much but I thought the bypass was there not only to move oil to the cooler but also protect from a plugged or damaged filter. Anyone know for sure?

Joe: I'm just trying to get the info. I don't mean to offend.


None taken.

I also thought about building a 'bridge' with the oil cooler pipe. I also thought about silver soldering the reformed pipe. But I don't know how to do that type of stuff and I would have to farm it out. It would also have to be formed underneath or around the oil pressure sending unit.

This was real easy.
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-12-2009).]

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J Gunsett
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Report this Post11-12-2009 07:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for J GunsettClick Here to visit J Gunsett's HomePageClick Here to Email J GunsettSend a Private Message to J GunsettDirect Link to This Post
Why not use a oil cooler? Very easy to do if the cradle and engine are out of the car, just a little harder if you have to do with the engine in the car. Here is how I did mine and I think it does keep the oil temp down and I get a few more pounds of oil pressure.

http://www.frontiernet.net/...nsett/OilCooler.html

Jack

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If you can not run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!

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josef644
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Report this Post11-12-2009 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

This is not a pro and con over wheather or not to do the bypass, and I ask that you do not take this thread there. If you want to know how to do the bypass, read on.



Jack,
I went to your site and read it all. Nice site. I enjoyed your V8 audio sound bite. Thanks for putting that up.
Joe
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Report this Post11-13-2009 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseDirect Link to This Post
The one thing I don't like about the oil cooler is oil change time.

1) you can just leave the oil that is in the cooler in and not worry about it, or
2) remove the hoses and force air through the system to drain the oil. Unless you mount the cooler in such a way that you can drain it - still have to remove one of the hoses.

I am lazy and usually just opt for option #1 - that way I don't have to jack up the car or remove any hoses.
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josef644
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Report this Post11-13-2009 10:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
Reasons I did not want an oil cooler:

Possability of leaks

no good place to mount it in the engine compartment that is effective.

If it isn't gonna be effective, why install it?

Capture of around 1 quart of dirty engine oil on each oil change.

If you follow the Fiero's exhaust path you have a catalitic converter real close. So this becomes an oil warmer, as the air flow around the converter, effect the cooler.

This location would be right in the path for rock strikes

Will interfer with the installation my AC lines. I will have factory AC

And lastly my preferance

Oil filter adapter painted with hammered silver, and two coats of clear. I'll put it back on the car this afternoon.


Tuurned out real nice.

Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 11-13-2009).]

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Report this Post11-13-2009 02:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

Reasons I did not want an oil cooler:

Possability of leaks

no good place to mount it in the engine compartment that is effective.

If it isn't gonna be effective, why install it?

Capture of around 1 quart of dirty engine oil on each oil change.

If you follow the Fiero's exhaust path you have a catalitic converter real close. So this becomes an oil warmer, as the air flow around the converter, effect the cooler.

This location would be right in the path for rock strikes

Will interfer with the installation my AC lines. I will have factory AC

And lastly my preferance

Oil filter adapter painted with hammered silver, and two coats of clear. I'll put it back on the car this afternoon.


Tuurned out real nice.

Joe



Joe IMO, you probably can get by without an oil cooler. Most engines don't have one and if you want viscosity protection at elevated temperatures you can just use quality synthetic oil. Does the 4.9L run hotter than any other engine or is it that when buying a premium car they just include some extra "bells and whistles" ? Or is it can my other theory that Cadillacs are often see heavy use as livery vehicles ( car and limo services) and engine life benefits from an oil cooler. I believe my last statement is the reason its there.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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josef644
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Report this Post11-13-2009 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
Here is a shot of it back on the car. I had cleaned everything already, and 10 min's it was all back together


I found this old posting on Cadero between Ed Parks and Aaron Russell from October 8, 2007
Direct quote
"Aaron, I would not call blocking the (so called) oil
cooler connections
"short changing" the engine. The engine disperses
heat very well while
generally leaving Fiero engine compartment temps
somewhat lower then it
is normally with a V6.

The attendant hoses, clamps, tubes, radiant device,
routing, and
placement, are apt to give more trouble/leaks then
the Cadillac original
"oil cooler" gave in benefits.

At least, thats what we decided about 70+
installations ago.

We also use the AC Delco PF 58 or comparable Wix oil
filters. Began
using Wix after reading a thoroughly documented R&D
article in the Turbo
Diesel Registry concerning oil and filters for our
Cummins powered Dodge
truck.

Ed Parks from The Fiero Factory
8710B Hwy 53, Toney, Ala 35773
Shop 256-420-5391, Home 256-430-9643
www.TheFieroFactory.com "
End Quote

I guess this arguement has been going on for a long time
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Report this Post11-13-2009 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for billpappsSend a Private Message to billpappsDirect Link to This Post
After building many engines. Many built with lose mains. I looked for ways to keep the oil cooler.
I welcome the idea of the oil cooler. People think of Porsche engines as air cooled.
But they are more of a oil cooled engine. A Corvair is air cooled. It has a very small
oil cooler. Adding a bigger cooler Can drop temps by 80Deg or more. Depends on how much HP your making
Ya can really see it drop with a turbo charger. Where temps can push 300Deg or higher under boost.
Oil cooler makes a good heater core.

I don't blame a guy for not wanting the cooler. Something less to worry about.
May not be needed for a Fiero/4.9 .. But I think I will keep it. I think it will take
some of the stress off Rad on them 100deg days
I like the mods of the bypass though.


Idit because my spelling sucks

[This message has been edited by billpapps (edited 11-13-2009).]

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Report this Post11-14-2009 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by josef644:

Here is a shot of it back on the car. I had cleaned everything already, and 10 min's it was all back together


I found this old posting on Cadero between Ed Parks and Aaron Russell from October 8, 2007
Direct quote
"Aaron, I would not call blocking the (so called) oil
cooler connections
"short changing" the engine. The engine disperses
heat very well while
generally leaving Fiero engine compartment temps
somewhat lower then it
is normally with a V6.

The attendant hoses, clamps, tubes, radiant device,
routing, and
placement, are apt to give more trouble/leaks then
the Cadillac original
"oil cooler" gave in benefits.

At least, thats what we decided about 70+
installations ago.

We also use the AC Delco PF 58 or comparable Wix oil
filters. Began
using Wix after reading a thoroughly documented R&D
article in the Turbo
Diesel Registry concerning oil and filters for our
Cummins powered Dodge
truck.

Ed Parks from The Fiero Factory
8710B Hwy 53, Toney, Ala 35773
Shop 256-420-5391, Home 256-430-9643
www.TheFieroFactory.com "
End Quote

I guess this arguement has been going on for a long time


yeah, its been going on for a long time. Me personally, always use an oil cooler when you have an aluminum + cast iron combination engine, because of the different expansion rates of the metal. your head gaskets will last ALOT longer with cooler oil. GM added it because they thought it needed. they spent the many hundreds of thousands on R&D for the engine, so it would make sense to add it. I look at it like this: It is better to have and not need, then need and not have.

To each there own.

and to the thread starter, i apologize for adding my 2 cents to the argument, since i know you were not looking for someone to hijack the thread. I like the work you did to oil filter adapter and bypassing the oil cooler system.
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josef644
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Report this Post11-14-2009 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
stickpony, no offence taken. I owe you much. My engine is sitting on your engine mount. And thanks for the help threw this swap.
Joe Crawford
Texas
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