Ok as much as I have worked on Fiero's I have not touched a 4cyl Fiero in 10 years. Everything I do and work on for people has been V6 cars. Usually when a 4cyl car blows a motor, I tell them to send it to wrecker and start with a V6. However this being an 87, in good condition, no rust, no wrecks, all original and the lady that owns it loves the car to death and her hubby is a machinist by trade for the movie industry, so turning wrench's is not an issue for him. I agreed to take on the job, with the rule that he comes over and tuns wrench's himself to keep the labour/time cost down. I am doing the job at a really reduced rate so time is a concern. I have started a list of items that I know we are going to need. I told him to get everything on the list he could and the remaining items I'll pull from my personal stock of spare parts. I have already located the engine for him and he is going to pick it up tonight.


Ok car is an 87 4cyl Isuzu 5spd and we are installing an 86 2.8 onto the Isuzu then back into the 87 Coupe.

List of items needed

V6 clutch kit with Isuzu Throw out Bearing
V6 Fuel Pump
V6 exhaust complete with Y-Pipe
V6 Engine Harness,
V6 ECM
All V6 coolant Hoses
V6 Flywheel
V6 front Engine Mount
V6 Dog bone
Either cut her rear bumper skin, or find an 88 Formula rear skin.
V6 Gauge cluster
Optional V6 Aux cluster.
I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, anyone done recently and can add anything to the list?

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: One of the coolant tubes will be different, I think drivers side. Either swap it or try to find a hose to work. Throttle cable, A 10amp fuse for the INJ2 slot

My guess is 40hrs of total labour start to finish. Which in other terms, 2 guys should be able to pull it off in 2 long days or 3 short days, if nothing goes wrong.

I think that is about it, anyone know anything that I am missing?


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85GT Soon to be 87GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

[This message has been edited by Capt Fiero (edited 11-04-2009).]

One of the coolant tubes will be different, I think drivers side. Either swap it or try to find a hose to work. Throttle cable, A 10amp fuse for the INJ2 slot

Apart from stiffer rear springs, I can't think of anything else that's important, though I'm not sure how much importance you place on the alternator/coil blower motor in the rear compartment. They did away with them in '88 because they switched over to the CS alternator but prior to that they all had the blowers.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: One of the coolant tubes will be different, I think drivers side. Either swap it or try to find a hose to work. Throttle cable, A 10amp fuse for the INJ2 slot

CRAP, I forgot about throttle cable, FRACK FRACK. I guess that is something we still need to find and I don't usually save the throttle cables. That is going to put a hamper on things.

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85GT Soon to be 87GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Well Todays Pics

The Victim, err Project car



Kinda looks like it is smiling.



Ya its eager to go fast. Even has tire sizes to match an 85GT (215/60/14's)



Thats the last you should see of this thing, well until its been removed at least.



I looked under and went oh, crap.





Then after a bit More removal this is what I found.










This is the battery tray area.




Strut Tower is just as bad.



At this point, I stopped work for the night and called Damien. (spelling) After talking to him, he says, as bad as it looks, he's worked with a ton worse. Said nothing a welder and some metal and some time can't fix. So he says go ahead with the project and he'll take care of the rust issues.

So the project is a full on go. I'm going to start back at it, tomorrow. Hopefully I can have the cradle on the ground by tomorrow afternoon.

That pole structure you see over the car in the 3rd pic has now had the cover put on it so if it does rain, I will have a nice dry area to work. I had thought about moving the project into the garage where its dry heated and such, but I actually prefer to work outside on projects that are not "long term" I have more room to move things around and such.

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85GT Soon to be 87GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.

Your missing the baby swing so your new daughter can sit and watch you work on the cars. How do you think Jessi Combs got into it?

JK good luck with the project, I started the same thing a few years back but scrapped the idea due to money, but now the car is getting a little bigger V6.....

-Joe

You should have no trouble trading the 87 4 cyl throttle cable for a V6 one and for the htr hoses the 87 88 had the return line go straight into the pass coolant tube so you just need to remove the one fitting from the block and put a plug into it like the 87 88 V6 engines had.
For the wiring you should be ok the only difference in the main connectors is the one wire for the TCC in an auto and the upshift light in the manual tranny ECM on C203 pin A. As long as the 4 cyl car has ignition power on pins J and K of the C203 you will be fine as I have found two 87 88's before that did not have the extra two wires from the fuse panel.
For the air intake system just use a V6 air box and replace the plastic wheel well piece with a V6 one. Dan

just did what ur doing with my 87 duke and believe me think about the old rule :

ITS A FIERO ..... MULTIPLY THE CALCULATED TIME AT LEAST WITH 3


i started end of september with the swap and worked on saturdays on it
with everything done ( incl. poly mounts , fresh enginemounts , renewed exhaust system ) iam done now with it .
I mean iam in a condition that the car is complete like a normal V6 , everything attached what need to be and 4 wheel aligned too .

BTW the rust there on your project car looks like fun to fight it...

Dave,
Good morning. I did the exact install of an 86 2.8 into 87 2.5 coupe. You saw the car in Arlington this year w/Camaro dash. Here are my notes from the install

• You need the fuel pump and throttle cable from a 2.8L
• The left side for/aft coolant tube on the 2.5 is about 4-6” longer on the 2.5. You can cut it down, but remember the flare is no longer there, so double clamp it. I changed to the 2.8 coolant tube because I had one. It is a lot of work to snake this tube around the front suspension. You have to remove the front trunk floor, left shock, etc.
• The for/aft heater pipe that connects to the thermostat housing through a molded hose is different for the 2.8. I changed mine, but you don’t have to…just use more heater hose.
• There is a heater line that goes into the water pump on the 85-86 2.8 (hard line from the firewall, along the frame rails and to the back of the engine compartment). A hose connects this line to the water pump. You This line is eliminated on the 87-88 cars because the water return is plumbed into one of the for/aft coolant tubes). You have to plug the place where the line goes to the 86 water pump.
• You need the dogbone from a 2.8…it is shorter
• You need an air filter housing, plastic elbow that is below it, and rubber boot that goes between the throttle body and air filter. It is a very tight fit around the shift cables if you use the Isuzu 5 speed. I made a new boot, but at least one person has used the stock 2.8 air intake boot. I thought it could not be done, but someone sent me a picture of it, so I know it can be done.
• You need the engine harness from the 2.8+ECM+ECM mounting bracket (the 2.5 and 2.8 ECM have mounting screws in different places).
• I swapped in the engine bay cooling blower, and the rear wiring harness to power the blower. The blower cools the distributor and alternator. It was eliminated in the 1988 model and many people say it is not necessary.
• The 2.8 harness plugged in to the 2.5 harness and all worked with no issues. Harnesses are slightly different between AC/non AC, 4 sp/5 sp/auto. Depending on what configuration you have, there are wiring differences relating to clutch start lockout, auto/manual trans, AC etc. As far as I know, the locations for all wires are the same on the main connectors, but the wires may be omitted for some configurations. If you do not have access to wiring diagrams in a shop manual, try gaining access to the ALLDATA database, which seems to have the same information as a GM service manual. I have access to it at my local library. Sorry, you have to go to my library as it is not available on the Internet. I had to swap in the main harness from my parts car, as the fuse panel was badly corroded.
• The motor mount is the same, but I put in a new one, as well as new transmission mounts.
• I replaced all engine seals, the timing chain (the engine had 90K on it), the water pump (cast rather than plastic impeller) and had the injectors cleaned. There was a post somewhere on PFF on cheap but good places for injector cleaning. The car does not leak coolant or oil at all; a good investment while replacement was cheap and easy.
• I think the AC brackets are different; my coupe did not have AC, but I swapped it in from my parts car.
• I used the alternator from the 2.8 w/AC which is larger
• I also swapped in the AC, but the main wiring harness for AC controls is different. In the end, I had to swap the main harness only because the fuse panel was badly corroded on my otherwise rust free car. I was glad I had a parts car.
• I installed a new Fiero Store HD RAM clutch for the 2.8 with the Isuzu throw out bearing. You must match the throwout bearing to the transmission. This clutch works very smoothly and with low effort. A great clutch. The Fiero store told me to use a 2.5 clutch. While this would work, it is smaller in diameter and would wear out faster.
• I used the flywheel that came with the engine; 85-87 2.8 engines require balance weights on the flywheel. 88 engines are neutrally balanced. Putting the wrong flywheel on an engine would lead to early failure.
• I think the later year fuel lines are the same for the 2.5 and 2.8, but earlier are different (not sure). I put in new Fiero store SS lines.
• I installed the exhaust system from the 2.8. I would replace all of the exhaust manifold bolts with high strength (9.8) studs. My engine had three snapped off and I had to drill one out. It is much easier to do this with the engine out. Also check the exhaust manifolds for cracks. The one on my parts car (that had a blown engine) was cracked on the cylinder where the piston had a hole though it.
• I also swapped in cruise control and it works! If you swap the cruise into a car that did not have cruise, you have to change the rear wiring harness…the one that goes to the taillights.

I also put the shrouded fan from the 2.8. I do not know if that is specific to AC or 2.8. I have since put 5K miles on the car without issues.

Good luck
Jim

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87 T-top 2.8 5sp Camaro Dash Bonneville door panels; 86 355 body & interior kits 3.1 Auto; 85 SE 2.5 5sp, 86 SE 2.8 auto parts car

BTW, you don't need to swap out the instrument panel, unless you really want to. You can modify the 4-cyl tach, or just replace the tachometer by itself. The rest of the gauges don't care what engine is in the car.

If equipped with AC I would install the alternator and coil blower, mounts right in, and in the swap I did I found that the radiator was a bit thicker in the 6 cylinder than in the 4 so I swapped that too.

I did leave the 4 speed with my swap as I had read somewhere that the izuzu 5 speed wasnt beefy enough for the 6 cylinder, if anyone has used that one and has stood the test of time please chime in here as I may change mine.

I've been using an Isuzu 5 speed behind my '86 2.8L for 2 years now, and in my 5.0L TPI conversion since 1996. I'm sure it's plenty strong for whatever the stock V6 can produce, but on the V8 I don't abuse it (much) for obvious reasons.

Well before I forget, its not a 2.8 with a cam, its a 3.1 or 3.2 with a cam, turns out Clynt used a later stroker engine. So this should have lots of snap compared to the old Duke that was in it.

Alright on with the pics. The reason for no udpate, is that as soon as we gathered the parts we have been non stop until we were ready to pass out. Last night it wasn't till almost 11pm that we stopped working.
So get ready for lots of pics, there is 35 of them.

The first drop pics.







Rust Repair, and trust me it gets better further on.









The "Empty Engine" pic that every build must have.




The Sad old Duke




The Isuzu


Hmm Army Green? Na Special Primer. Notice the Patchwork. Looking Good.




















The Man at Work, Welding and Painting, Welding and Painting. WOW he never quits.







The 3.2 V6 getting ready to go in.


Some more of the sad old duke engine.





New Clutch installed. Sure looks heavy duty for an OEM replacment.








Hmm, can you spot the thing you shouldn't see.


Hmm, nope this end is fine.


How bout there, Hmm, whoops that is suppose to be up inside.


Well a few good taps, and a small prayer. We pushed it back up inside the trans and put a few drops of lock tight on the outside of the bushing, hopefully it stays put.




Remember that nasty battery tray. Well we did not replace it, Damien managed to make it look like new.








Only drawback to all this work with the portable sand blaster, my driveway is now orange, I think someone will be doing some muddy sweeping.


And the final shots of tonight, before I climbed into the house to pass out.

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85GT Soon to be 87GT,93 Eldorado 4.9, 5spd Dual O2 Custom Chip, Custom Exhaust. MSD Everything Capt Fiero --- My Over View Cadero Pics Yellow 88GT 5spd Full Poly Suspension, Lowered 1/2" in front, Corner Carver.