ok, so here's the deal..i'm wanting to make an attempt at dropping a 3.4L Pushrod from a 95 Camaro into my 87GT-5 speed. I was also entertaining the thought of replacing the ECM w/ a 7730 ECM..i have been reading this thread ---> https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079574.html and now my mind is twisted up like a pretzel b/c there is so much info in the thread that is way above my head....basically i'm trying to find someone that has installed a 7730 ECM with the 3.4L Pushrod swap and can help me out....i just need an overview of how it was done, tools to use, parts i need to purchase from the junkyard/parts house....just any info would be great...i've done multiple searches and have come up with a few threads but most seem to stray from the subject and start talking about other stuff...i would like this thread to stay mainly on topic of using the 7730 ECM w/ with a 3.4L Pushrod and what needs to be done...thanks

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 09-03-2009).]

It's the same problem with every build thread, way too much information and noise. Your biggest problem will be adapting the digital EGR system. There's no off-the-shelf adapter you can buy for this.

I have a 3.4 with a 7730 ECM. Both are pretty straightforward upgrades. There's a thread floating around the Construction Zone section regarding the 3.4 swap, and another in Tech regarding the 7730 upgrade (by Darth Fiero).

It's really pretty easy now that I look back on it. Just dont switch a wire like I did, take your time.

Just to be clear, I did develop an "off the shelf" adapter for the digital EGR.

It is mentioned in the thread. It's been tested by Darth, and there's 40 or 50 now out in the field. Need further info.? PM me.

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Marc in sunny Titusville, FL

• 84 SE son's car, loaded
  
• 85 Coup w/V6 transplant
  
• 85 GT newly on the road
  
• 86 SE/GT "The Chameleon" - big plans!

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: I have a 3.4 with a 7730 ECM. Both are pretty straightforward upgrades. There's a thread floating around the Construction Zone section regarding the 3.4 swap, and another in Tech regarding the 7730 upgrade (by Darth Fiero).

yeah, i've read both posts multiple times and i feel very comfortable with the 3.4L swap in know what all is involved and what my game plan is going to be...but what i'm not completely sure of is exactly what changes need to be made to the 7730ECM to make in compatable with the 3.4L Engine..the swap that Darth Fiero did was with a stock 2.8...and like crazyd said, there is WAY too much information and noise in that thread...i've tried sifting through it all but w/ my lack of experience, it just really confusses me...i'm really looking for someone that has done this specific upgrade and that i can ask really basic questions to and kind of take me throught it step-by-step so i can get a game plan in line before i start digging in...hopefully i won't miss anything this way...


for example, Darth Fiero Says....

"The 7730 ECM uses the same type of connectors as the stock Fiero 2.8 ECM. The only difference is the 7730 ECM uses a 3rd connector (yellow) and requires 2 additional grounds and some additional wiring circuits for the knock sensor, fan relay control, EGR, EVAP solenoid, and VSS input. All told, I only had to run 6 additional wires out to the engine from the computer to cover for these circuits. Everything else was able to be hooked up using existing circuits in the stock 2.8 harness"


if the fiero harness uses the same connectors as the 7730ECM what do you have to repin? do you even have to repin anything for the 3.4L. if so, what do you repin and what tools do i need to i need to perform this? also, he says that 6 additional wires have to be run to the engine bay...what wires need to be run to the engine bay and what can hooked up to an existing circuit? what is a knock sensor, fan relay control, EGR, EVAP solenoid, and VSS input and where are they located on the 3.4L?

i know i have asked alot of really dumb and basic questions but i'm really not that experienced at all and just trying to get my brain wrapped around it before attempting. thanks in advance

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 09-04-2009).]

I did the 7730 on my 3.1
yes, I can imagine the worry

the re-pinning of the connectors is mighty tedious. yes it is. and, I understand the confusion - same type doesnt mean same shape. and, for the extra wiring - much is actually - re-used/re-tasked wires. I didnt have to run any extra wires - but I also did not hook up a EGR. in fact - I have left over wires passing thru the firewall, because I also deleted all the A/C wiring, since I removed the A/C years ago, but never cleaned up the wiring.

the 2.8 & the 3.4 - everything goes in the same place.
now, going to the 7730 - now you have additional stuff, and some removed stuff
like the EGR - you no longer have the EGR solenoid by the thermostat housing. these wires get re-used.
The knock sensor is on the side of the 3.4 block. also, the Crank Position Sensor is there.
the fan relay control - on the stock Fiero - it is run from a temprature switch - on the 7730, it is run by the ECM.

the wiring diagrams/service manual help ALOT. also, a diagram for the style 7730 swap you are doing helps alot.
like, I did mine w/DIS - so I got a diagram for a DIS setup
if you are doing a distributer - use a diagram for that kind of setup.
when you compare the diagrams you'll quickly see something: GM was nice. they used the same wire color codes
so, tracing things on the diagrams is fairly easy. and, you'll also see how litttle has actually changed.
most of the job is in fact re-pinning the actual ECM connectors.

concentrate on getting the 3.4 installed on the cradle. there are no differences in doing it for the a stock Fiero ECM or the 7730 ECM.
then comes the decision on how deep you wanna go with doing the wiring. stripping the loom/tape/insualtion off is a big task. and, can overwhelm quickly, when you are just standing, looking at a ball of colorful spaghetti. probably the easiest way to go is to plug everything in stock - then doing the swap wiring, then tucking them into the loom as needed.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: the wiring diagrams/service manual help ALOT. also, a diagram for the style 7730 swap you are doing helps alot. like, I did mine w/DIS - so I got a diagram for a DIS setup if you are doing a distributer - use a diagram for that kind of setup. when you compare the diagrams you'll quickly see something: GM was nice. they used the same wire color codes so, tracing things on the diagrams is fairly easy. and, you'll also see how litttle has actually changed. most of the job is in fact re-pinning the actual ECM connectors. .

what is DIS and what is the difference b/t DIS and doing a distributer? is one preferred over the other or advantageous over the other? where can i obtain these specific wiring diagrams?

quote Originally posted by labbe001: what is DIS and what is the difference b/t DIS and doing a distributer? is one preferred over the other or advantageous over the other? where can i obtain these specific wiring diagrams?

DIS is the "coil packs" type igntion. the 7730 supports this. the only wiring difference is: you run a pair of wires to the coil packs to the crank sensor (which should be on your 3.4 block), and run power to the coil packs. other than that - it is EXACTLY the same as wiring the distributer. the pros/cons is mightly slim. DIS has better spark in high RPMs, and finer ignition timing. but - the one drawback - which bugged me almost instantly: only way to advance the timing is get a new chip made. but - the other side of that same issue is: once timing is set - it aint changing. no dist caps to replace yearly. (I used MSD igntion with my dist - cooks caps)

here is a pic

hhmmm...since the differences are minimal, i think i might just stick to the distributor style setup due to my lack of knowledge and experience....also, i would like to keep the enigine bay looking as stock as possible too ..i really appreciate all the help and responses.... where abouts can i get a wiring diagram for the type of setup i'm attempting?

www.GMTuners.com

much 7730 swap info

ALRIGHT!!!! got two 7730's w/ pig tails and the calpaks coming next week...i'll be using one for a stock 87GT and one for my 3.4L swap..

so let me ask, would there be any differences in modifying the 7730 for a 3.4L as opposed to the stock 2.8L or would the modifications for both be the same?

quote Originally posted by labbe001: ALRIGHT!!!! got two 7730's w/ pig tails and the calpaks coming next week...i'll be using one for a stock 87GT and one for my 3.4L swap.. so let me ask, would there be any differences in modifying the 7730 for a 3.4L as opposed to the stock 2.8L or would the modifications for both be the same?

the 3.4 probably has a knock sensor, or at least the provisions for one, the 2.8 wont
otherwise - nope.

Where are you getting the BIN programs for the 2.8/3.4 for the 7730?

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Where are you getting the BIN programs for the 2.8/3.4 for the 7730?

checking w/ darth fiero to see if he can program them for me...if not then i'll have to check around..if i don't find anyone, i guess i'm SOL...haha

I wouldn't attempt both of these on my first try. The first time I did my 3.4 swap I was confused enough trying to marry the two engines to each other. I had boxes and boxes of parts that began commingling and after a while it became confusing just to figure out which was which, much less which ones I needed to use and which ones I didn't. Was this a 2.8 or 3.4 heat shield? Were these the 2.8's or the 3.4's injectors? It is enough of a challenge to do an engine swap and get the car to run with the known baseline of a functioning engine control system. Anyone who has done one can confirm this. You will inevitably have something that isn't going to work right, these never start up perfectly the first time, and you have to be able to fall back on what you are sure worked before to narrow it down to what could be wrong. If you are adding in the confusion of trying to marry two disparate engine control systems and you don't know what works properly and what doesn't, in addition to trying to marry two disparate engines, you are exponentially increasing your potential for problems and confusion.

My suggestion is if you want a better shot at success, do these one at a time and get the car running before you attempt to do the other one.

Step-by-step instructions for the 3.4 swap are at http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org

Does anyone have a video of the 2.8 or 3.4 startup and idle with a 7730 ecm?

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quote Originally posted by crazyd: I wouldn't attempt both of these on my first try. The first time I did my 3.4 swap I was confused enough trying to marry the two engines to each other. I had boxes and boxes of parts that began commingling and after a while it became confusing just to figure out which was which, much less which ones I needed to use and which ones I didn't. Was this a 2.8 or 3.4 heat shield? Were these the 2.8's or the 3.4's injectors? It is enough of a challenge to do an engine swap and get the car to run with the known baseline of a functioning engine control system. Anyone who has done one can confirm this. You will inevitably have something that isn't going to work right, these never start up perfectly the first time, and you have to be able to fall back on what you are sure worked before to narrow it down to what could be wrong. If you are adding in the confusion of trying to marry two disparate engine control systems and you don't know what works properly and what doesn't, in addition to trying to marry two disparate engines, you are exponentially increasing your potential for problems and confusion. My suggestion is if you want a better shot at success, do these one at a time and get the car running before you attempt to do the other one. Step-by-step instructions for the 3.4 swap are at http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org

right...i'm gonna do the 7730 ecm swap first on my 2.8 stock and get that down..then comes the 3.4L swap on my other car, get that running w/ the stock ecm then swap w/ the 7730...i know it wil be a slow go and thats why i wanted to start this thread so i could get a somewhat of a game plan on what i need to do....hopefully it won't be too painful

so would an 85 4cyl mounting tray work with the 7730 ecm?

quote Originally posted by labbe001: so would an 85 4cyl mounting tray work with the 7730 ecm?

not sure - but - yes - it was a 4 cyl try which I used also
tho, I thought it was for a 87?

To labbe001: You need the later (1987-88) 4cyl ECM mounting tray.

To JamesCurtis: I have two videos, one of the bored/stroked 2.8 V6 & 7730 ECM (startup and idle), and one with the new 3.4 V6 & 7730 ECM (idling). See below.





That "glub-glub" sound is the Trueleo headers and custom exhaust talking.

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: To labbe001: You need the later (1987-88) 4cyl ECM mounting tray. To JamesCurtis: I have two videos, one of the bored/stroked 2.8 V6 & 7730 ECM (startup and idle), and one with the new 3.4 V6 & 7730 ECM (idling). See below. That "glub-glub" sound is the Trueleo headers and custom exhaust talking.

since the only way i have internet access is at work, and since they have blocked us from streaming videos, is there any way i can get you to email the 3.4L w/ the 7730 to me my address is dlabbe@marathonelectrical.com...thanks

You can download the videos from my website. The 2.8 startup/idle video is 30MB, and the 3.4 video is 10MB.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 09-18-2009).]