Wanted to try to start a thorough discussion on axles. Tried a search and did not find a discuusion like this. I am stalling on getting my axles done because I'm not sure where to start. I know there is no absolute combo that works for everyone because of different mounting positions. I would just like to see what people have used to get thiers together and what mounts are you using. I made my own mounts so I will only be getting rough ideas of what might work to start with, but hopefully this thread will help future swappers to decide on mounts and axle easier.

I had a thread back summerish of 06. Was the 'defacto' thread for the one way of doing it. Of course, I came up with it, so I might be a little biased, lol!

IMO, I prefer this method:

If you have the tranny mounted centered in the engine bay, so both axels are the same length, then you need 2 x 00+ J Boby axles, (sunfire etc) both axles are the same, so doesnt matter which side

You also need both axels from the donor transmission.

Working only with the inner tripot, (the one at the tranny)

Pop off the boots and swap the donor tripots onto the Jbody axels.

Examine the 3 'rollers' on the axles, if they are both rounded or both squared, move on, otherwise you will need to use the donor rollers with the donor tripots, being careful not to disturb the needle bearings.

Grease, reassemble and install.

The Jbody axles are the same diameter as the 65E-HD axles (1.1", fiero is either 1" or .9")

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 01-11-2009).]

Think I remember that thread, At the time I was still running the 5 speed. I mounted the motor using the five speed stock location, now i put in the 65E at the same motor location and it is slightly off center. Those axles you use sound so easy I may just move the motor/trans mounts to make it work.

Any other axle setups ?

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Think I remember that thread, At the time I was still running the 5 speed. I mounted the motor using the five speed stock location, now i put in the 65E at the same motor location and it is slightly off center. Those axles you use sound so easy I may just move the motor/trans mounts to make it work. Any other axle setups ?

What set of holes are for the 5 speed setup? I mount my setups using the inner set of holes so the axle setup I use works everytime so far. I use:

DRV Side:
Stock Fiero auto DRV side for the DRV side axle for the swap


Pass Side Inner setup:
Get both donor axles from the 3800SC
Remove the inner tulip from the Pass side axle/do the same for the DRV
Put the Pass side tulip on the DRV axle/grease and band up
Shouldn't have to change anything else but the tulips for the innner part of the swap


Pass side Outer setup:
Get outer manuel Fiero CV joint and outer donor CV joint
Remove both them from there axle and remove the cage/bearings
Take the cage/bearings from the 3800 CV joint and install them into the Fiero CV joint
Grease and band

This is the setup I have used on my DD swap and on every other swap I have done.

So far the only part I got from the donor trans is the passenger side Tripot. Its hard to find the HD trans parts here. The stock Fiero tripot fits in the drivers ide of the HD is it okay to use it ?

Once this list get a little longer and plenty of Ideas out here I will go get some test parts to try to assemble something.

Not sure which holes the 5 speed used.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: So far the only part I got from the donor trans is the passenger side Tripot. Its hard to find the HD trans parts here. The stock Fiero tripot fits in the drivers ide of the HD is it okay to use it ? Once this list get a little longer and plenty of Ideas out here I will go get some test parts to try to assemble something. Not sure which holes the 5 speed used.

If you have the Pass side inner tripot from the donor trans then all you need is the DRV donor axle which is a very common axle that is used on all 3800 transmissions. That axle should be everywhere and a dime a dozen at that.

Yes--A stock auto Fiero DRV side axle fits into the DRV of the HD trans with no issues. The axle is smaller but will hold up with no issues. I have been running a 20 year old stock Fiero auto axle on my DRV side for 40K/3 years and many 1.6 60' launches with no issues.

Well thers some to try, I will look for a drivers side 4t65E axle, But the auto Fiero axle may be a challange. Is a reman one from the parts stoe useable ? I have read not to use them, but I have only see one auto Fiero out here and its gone now.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Well thers some to try, I will look for a drivers side 4t65E axle, But the auto Fiero axle may be a challange. Is a reman one from the parts stoe useable ? I have read not to use them, but I have only see one auto Fiero out here and its gone now.

I have nont used a remann axle myself but from reading they are not worth buying. The outer portion of the axle where the bearings mount to arer smaller. If you can't find an auto axle then send me a PM, I am sure I have an extra laying around I can sale you.

I will keep that in mind thanks !

Any other combos out there that are working on your swap ?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: What set of holes are for the 5 speed setup? I mount my setups using the inner set of holes so the axle setup I use works everytime so far. I use: DRV Side: Stock Fiero auto DRV side for the DRV side axle for the swap Pass Side Inner setup: Get both donor axles from the 3800SC Remove the inner tulip from the Pass side axle/do the same for the DRV Put the Pass side tulip on the DRV axle/grease and band up Shouldn't have to change anything else but the tulips for the innner part of the swap Pass side Outer setup: Get outer manuel Fiero CV joint and outer donor CV joint Remove both them from there axle and remove the cage/bearings Take the cage/bearings from the 3800 CV joint and install them into the Fiero CV joint Grease and band This is the setup I have used on my DD swap and on every other swap I have done.

If you use the Fiero auto axle from the drivers side on the 4T65eHD you end up wth lightweight "spaghetti" for an axle'
As for th formula for the passenger side that you reference, we tried it and it didn't provide any axle travel.

I am skeptical of this forumula. Yes some have used it with success but I prefer high strength custom axles like this:

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If you use the Fiero auto axle from the drivers side on the 4T65eHD you end up wth lightweight "spaghetti" for an axle' As for th formula for the passenger side that you reference, we tried it and it didn't provide any axle travel. I am skeptical of this forumula. Yes some have used it with success but I prefer high strength custom axles like this:

Don't let the looks of the axle fool you---Like I said above I have cut many many 1.6 60' on MT drag radials using the stock Fiero "spaghetti" for an axle. The axle is 20 years olds, came from a car that had 112K on it, has been used on both my 3800 auto swaps for a combined 55K or so, has handled many hard 1.6 60' launches and is still going stong. I think using the stock Fiero axle for the 3800SC swap has been well proven and tested. But if having a bigger axle makes some feel better then I guess that is the route to take.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Don't let the looks of the axle fool you---Like I said above I have cut many many 1.6 60' on MT drag radials using the stock Fiero "spaghetti" for an axle. The axle is 20 years olds, came from a car that had 112K on it, has been used on both my 3800 auto swaps for a combined 55K or so, has handled many hard 1.6 60' launches and is still going stong. I think using the stock Fiero axle for the 3800SC swap has been well proven and tested. But if having a bigger axle makes some feel better then I guess that is the route to take.

We can debate the point of the smallish Fiero auto axle and you'll' probably see 30 opinions on it. So leaving that as it may, I don't believe that a larger diam. axle can hurt. If you saw the way I drive em you might want a large axle too.
I might have tried using the stock auto driver side axle had it not been for the poor and loose fit om my 3800SC swap. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that my engine is a series III but that axle proved a good 1" too short. I felt that having the tripod riding on the outer edge of the tripot cup was definitely not right. In closing perhaps we can say that the formula for making up 3800SC/4T65eHD axles as laid out in this post may or may not work depending on powertrain positioning. I believe that they will fit the 99-02 trans but won't fit the later 03-08 4T65eHD's that mount in a different fashion.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Don't let the looks of the axle fool you---Like I said above I have cut many many 1.6 60' on MT drag radials using the stock Fiero "spaghetti" for an axle. The axle is 20 years olds, came from a car that had 112K on it, has been used on both my 3800 auto swaps for a combined 55K or so, has handled many hard 1.6 60' launches and is still going stong. I think using the stock Fiero axle for the 3800SC swap has been well proven and tested. But if having a bigger axle makes some feel better then I guess that is the route to take.

My stock fiero spaghetti axle has held for some down right un-believable things, and I use them on both sides.

What is your axle setup Dark ?? I have been told in the past to use a stock Manual Fiero axle by a couple people but I dont remember which/where.

Ehh, I am not 100% sure myself, but i am fairly sure I use a older Jbody axle with a GTP trans side tripot, and a stock fiero driver side axle. I think that the stock fiero driver side is the same length as the jbody axles.

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Losing sight of our roots in the cathode rays.
Ultimate 3800 swap thread

Theres gotta be more axle combos people have figured out .....................................

Been a couple days with no ideas. See it all the time on 4x4 stuff, has anyone ever tried to cut, sleeve and weld the axles for custom lengths ? Just a thought, dont know if it would be a good idea.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Been a couple days with no ideas. See it all the time on 4x4 stuff, has anyone ever tried to cut, sleeve and weld the axles for custom lengths ? Just a thought, dont know if it would be a good idea.

Not a good idea.

I didnt think so, I just see them doing it for rock crawler 4x4's n such. Thought I would ask ! May make it to the junkyard this weekend looks like I have a list of 4 possible axles to grab.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: My stock fiero spaghetti axle has held for some down right un-believable things, and I use them on both sides.

You've been lucky!

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Just came back in from measuring axles and distance from the trans to the spindles so I have something to compare to at the yard. Well what I found was that it seem on my setup I can use Fiero manual axles on both sides with the 4t65e-hd inner tripots. From my measurement points the distance from the trans to the spindles was at the shortest 15" on the drv side, and 15 3/4" on the pass. side. they only move 3/4-1" max at full extention. The fiero manual axle compresses to 14" and extends to 17" limited by the boot or it could go further. Any ways I put together the drivers side one with the correct tripot and it works !! Tomorrow I will pull a axle off one of my other cars and try it for the pass. side. Measurements say it sholud work, i hope it will. they might not be heavy duty, but should get me by till I get money for different ones.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: You've been lucky!

I guess I have been "LUCKY" also!!!!!!!

Made my passenger side axle today with a manual Fiero axle and 4T65E-HD inner tripot and it works throught full range of motion. I got a bad feeling cuz it was just too easy, didn't need anything I didn;t allready have and I've been stalling for months.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Made my passenger side axle today with a manual Fiero axle and 4T65E-HD inner tripot and it works throught full range of motion. I got a bad feeling cuz it was just too easy, didn't need anything I didn;t allready have and I've been stalling for months.

You are DOOMED-_That little bitty tiny Fiero axle is going to snap as soon as you pull out the driveway.

I knew it !!! damn it was too easy !! ........ Well I was running a really long Fiero axle on the passenger side with the 5 speed, got the front wheels off the ground a couple time, but that long one never twisted or broke.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: You are DOOMED-_That little bitty tiny Fiero axle is going to snap as soon as you pull out the driveway.

Manual Fiero axles are a larger diameter than the auto. I was referring to using the auto axle on the driver side which many engine swaps use. If this works for some fine but when you do a 3000RPM hole shot, the safety of a large diameter axle is attractive. The auto axle may not snap as soon as you pull out of your driveway but give it some time at the track. I've seen guys snap large diameter axles there. So much for the lightweight Fiero auto axle!!! However, if you believe that they are as strong as say a Mark Williams racing axle then use em!

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Manual Fiero axles are a larger diameter than the auto. I was referring to using the auto axle on the driver side which many engine swaps use. If this works for some fine but when you do a 3000RPM hole shot, the safety of a large diameter axle is attractive. The auto axle may not snap as soon as you pull out of your driveway but give it some time at the track. I've seen guys snap large diameter axles there. So much for the lightweight Fiero auto axle!!! However, if you believe that they are as strong as say a Mark Williams racing axle then use em!

Well being I have been to the track many of times running MT drag radials, leaving at about 2500 RPMs on the foot brake and cutting 1.6 60' over and over with not issues. I think it is safe to say that the "SKIMPY" stock Fiero auto axle can handle some abuse. What drag radial have you ran on your car at the track and what 60' did you put down?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: You are DOOMED-_That little bitty tiny Fiero axle is going to snap as soon as you pull out the driveway.

That might be a correct statement. Kenny a guy in my club, relayed an experience at yesterdays meeting where what you describe happened with the Fiero auto axle. He snapped that sucker IN HALF, first time out on the first WOT pass but he was running a 350 SBC. Fortunately he was only a few blocks from home. If he sees this post perhaps he will chime in.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I am skeptical of this forumula. Yes some have used it with success but I prefer high strength custom axles like this:

Were those pics of Moser custom axles?

So would the second best setup be:
Keep the GTP tripots, and use 2 drivers side Fiero 4-speed axle shafts & outer joints?

Weakest would be the Fiero auto axle setup.

All the above subject to trans/motor position.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: That might be a correct statement. Kenny a guy in my club, relayed an experience at yesterdays meeting where what you describe happened with the Fiero auto axle. He snapped that sucker IN HALF, first time out on the first WOT pass but he was running a 350 SBC. Fortunately he was only a few blocks from home. If he sees this post perhaps he will chime in.

Yeah--But we all know that SBC Fieros have like 600 HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I finished my driver side axle for my LS4 4T65E-hd swap. Used the ryan formula = 94 baretta axle, Inner tripot is from the 2007 Implala SS that came with the LS4, iner tripot joint off the manual fiero axle and outer joint and tripot off the Fiero manual.

I am stuck on the passenger side. Bought a salvage yard 2001 impala axle from 3.4 V6. The inner tripot that came with the 2007 LS4 engine and tranny has a different tripot size on the driver side. The manual fiero tripot joint is too small for the paseenger side tripot. The 2001 impala axle and inner tripot joint will fit the larger passenger side tripot but is too large to fit into the outer tripot and joint of the fiero manual axle being used on the outside that fits the outside wheel bearing. I was going to buy an axle from a 3.8 SC engine if the tripot will fit the passenger side. I measured the manual fiero driver side axle a bit over 14 inches and think it will fit my needs. I do not know why the tranny in this car had A different tripot size between left and right but it does. I think the salvage yard gave me the wrong axle for the 2001 impala since it should have fit into the the fiero outer joint. The driver side was a piece of cake. any imnput appreciated. John
.

I have done 3 swaps using the 65 trans and the stock fiero auto axle. No breaks yet!

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I have done 3 swaps using the 65 trans and the stock fiero auto axle. No breaks yet!

Heck if they work then use em. After my friend Kenny V snapped the Fiero auto axle in half( with his SBC) , I just assumed that they wouldn't work but there is alot of evidence here that it does work.
So in summation we have for the passenger side
the 94 Beretta axle ( friver side I assume) with both joint ends, the 4T65eHD tripot and the Fiero manual outer CV cup
the GTP driver side axle bar with the 4T65eHD tripot/tripod ass'y and the outer GTP CV joint and the Fiero manual CV cup
the Fiero manual driver side axle using the 4T65eHD tripot, and both innerds and the Fiero manual outer cup with the GTP CV inner.
scrap all the forumlas and buy custom.
There is also someone who used an Impala axle but I don't remember the combo.

The point to remember is that the 3800SC swap may position differently depending on engine/trans year, & mounts used (or made) . I believe the right method is to measure and choose accordingly.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: The point to remember is that the 3800SC swap may position differently depending on engine/trans year, & mounts used (or made) . I believe the right method is to measure and choose accordingly.

I agree with this statement, most certainly. I'm not saying the stock auto axle is best, but it DOES seem to work in most basic setups. The high power guys may break them, I'm not sure, but its usually a good starting point for most. As mentioned above, be sure to measure before committing to anything permanent.

I used the same setup Mstangs uses and I haven't broken anything yet. I've never dynoed my car, but I've definately got a few good mods so I'm satisfied so far.

Finally finished the passenger axle. Used the the inner tripot from Pontiac 2006 3.8 SC with 4spd HD tranny and the tripot joint. The passenger side axle from 92-96 century, cutlass ciera, lumina, transport etc is the needed 32 spline and same diameter as fiero manual with 15 and 1/8 inches length. This fits the outer fiero cv joint. This works just right for the LS4 4T65E-HD swap as positioned in the my 88 cradle. Hope this helps someone. John

Turbo setup with ungodly amounts of abuse, and the stock fiero driver side axle lives. (I have a stock fiero driver side axle on my passenger side as well)

Ok, maybe someone can narrow the list down for axle combos. i'm going to do a 3.8sc swap too. Not sure what tranny I have. The motor came out of a 98 regal. But this is all new to me. How do I get the axles done without spending 250 per axle? I wanna buy an axle thats already put together for the swap. Is that possible? Or do I have to put one together like 3.4 turbo did? Thanks

Each swap depends on how your engine and tranny are positioned on the cradle. If you have the stock Fiero manual axles to use as the outside ends that is a good start. I was able to find all the other parts for $20 to $35 at various yards in Tulsa area. There is a place called Axle Tech in the LA area that can help you. I took my parts to an old boy in his late 70's that rebuilds cv shafts, drive-shafts and steering rack for his fun and something to do in his retirement. Seek them out and go to them with your parts and measurements and they will help you. This is a hands on project that is hard to do over long distances. I needed a 15" axle for the passenger side with 32 splines and about 1.1" in diameter. I had a 14" that was too short and 16" that was too long. Floyd had a hugh manual listing axles and all dimensions to look up what he needed and had it on his shelf to finish the project. You need to know what you want for them to help you. I gave him parts and info at 10:30 am and picked up the completed axles at 5pm. He rebuilts all the joints wilth new races and bearings. He will not use the cheap made in China stuff from some of the mass produced axles rebuilders. Look up axle tech and take your stuff there and have a chat with them. John

This has been discussed a zillion?? times, but I learned something worth passing along again. Mike Gonzales (I hope the spelling's OK) shared an easy way to get a decent axle for the 4t65e-HD trans. IF your transmission is very nearly centered in the cradle (my WCF mounts put it within 5/16 inch), and Mikes custom mounts are as well (that is from trans. seal to wheel seal). All you have to do is get two, DS, manual Fiero axles and put the inner CV joints from the 65e-HD on, and you are good to go. What is great is they are a direct fit, off with the old CV on with the new. Mike has been using his for some time and mine are on and ready. That gives you an axle with about a 1.03 diameter and a beefier outer CV. I don't think my 300ish HP will hurt them. Thanks Mike