I've checked search and except for a year old thread there isn't much on this.

For swaps to be legal in my area all the smog stuff needs to be swapped over and operational. Not a big deal. But on many ECUs they will post a code if non-smog related faults exist. I worry that presence of a code will automatically cause the car to flunk the test.

The only thing I can figure is to buy a running doner car and start cutting wires to figure what trips a code and then figure a work-around.

Any thoughts?

Can you just take the car to get inspected be4 you do the swap???
I know in KS you only have to get the car inspected once so you take it get it to pass then do your swap!!!!
i know that in MO you have to get it inspected once every year. so it would have to pass leagley or you would have to know
the guy if you know what i mean. slip him a 20 and most the times he/she will pass the car.

good luck

Are you talking ODB II here. I think there's a difference between a code and the Check Wallet light being on. I think that you might have many codes posted in an ODB II system without the CW light being on, for example an intermittent misfire on a cylinder. I doubt those are going to fail you as if they did pretty much every car on the road would probably fail. Something more serious though that turns on the light would be cause for a failure.

So if you move all the emissions stuff over you shouldn't expect to see any emissions related codes.

'Course, this info is probably worth what you paid for it!

[This message has been edited by ltlfrari (edited 11-29-2008).]

i put all the cavalier emissions equipment in to my swap and it does not throw codes .i did not know this until i accidentally started it up and the check engine light came on for the first time ever .it came on because i had the o2 sensor unplugged .i have most of the warning lights covered up so i dont have to look at airbag and seatbelt warnings all the time ,but i can see the check engine light .i use a cavalier instrument cluster .

We have a government contractor exclusively conducting all testing.

First they put the VIN into a computer which looks up the type of emissions test and pass/fail numbers. Then for late model cars they simply hook up the tester to the ecu port and use the engine's ecu to report the systems condition, or, for earlier cars they use the I/M 240 test: up to 4 minutes on the dyno, testing the exhaust under acceleration, decel, idle, cruise, and at different loads. Since the whole process is automated they can't influence the computer generated results.

Then they do a visual check to make sure all the bits and pieces are installed, including the vacuum lines vapor canister, egr, and all the related stuff -- apparently the inspector doesn't know the results of the tailpipe tests so the visual inspection is unrelated to emission levels.

From what I've heard if the inspector notices an alien engine, even if the car passes the emissions test, they send you to another station where you have to disclose the details and repeat testing. That is where the trouble begins. In some cases the car is rejected until all the federal and state requirements are fully met -- there is no fudging, even if it passes the sniff test the first time. This can mean tearing things out and swapping something in that will pass the visual test.

I have been told that the inspectors doing the visual inspection are often not up to speed on older cars and if the engine sorta-kinka-maybe looks like it came with the car it might not be caught. Got a neighbor who got his Mustang passed (twice) with home made turbo plumbing all over the place plus custom made headers -- all painted factory faded flat black to look old and original. I'm sure a lot of road dirt and grime also helps.

Still, it is a roll of the dice.

In theory the Ecotec should run cleaner than any of the Fiero engines did. On states that do emission checks by plugging into the PCM OBDII port, you'll probsbly have to have all of the emisson equipment working...evap. EGR, pre and post cat O2 sensors etc. In some states like in NJ, provided that the vehicle is driven 5000 miles or less per year, you can register your car as a classic and be granted a complete exemption from the state inspection and emissions requirements . The state does check the odometer readings though and charges an additional $25 fee.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

WTFB,

I've read your build several times -- lots of good work -- thanks for all the effort.

This is really good news. It suggests that the swap still keeps the ECU happy. If the check engine light and a related code is not set, especially with all the variables associated with the turbo, then there is a good chance that even if the smog folks demanded a further inspection and plugged into the ECU port, it would report things are normal.

This just leaves the appearance issue to avoid a hassle.

i have all the emission systems in place and working , but i live in an area that only requires testing for commercial vehicles so i cant advise you one way or the other .sounds to me like any non fiero engine might have a hard time passing .does it have to be done every year or just once?

WFTB,

Here in Phoenix we are sort of in a desert valley that is subject to winter atmospheric inversions which traps the air pollution - often lasting for many days. We have one or two "smog alerts" every year depending on the weather conditions, therefore we are under the more stringent federal rules. In general the 90's cars have to be tested every two years on the dyno. For 80's (I think) its every year.

So if the car passes the sniffer numbers for HC, NOX and CO for that model AND the visual inspection the car is good for another two years. For an Ecotec the numbers will, as pointed out above, be better than original for the car so this should not be a problem. The only legal issue is that the swap engine must physically have the same parts and configuration corresponding to the doner call in all respects. I imagine the only differences will likely be air intake/cleaner and exhaust pipe issues. Otherwise from the pollution equipment standpoint, things should be exactly the same. If there are purchasing records of the doner car, records of all the equipment removed and reinstalled, and the fuel maps the same, then things should be OK.

From what I have observed the inspectors are mostly in their early 20's and likely have minimal training and corresponding low pay. I doubt they can recognize what engine is correct for 20-25 year old car since they were toddlers at the time. They probably look at 200 engines a week and it would be hard to remember an 80's since they see them so infrequently. The supervisors however are much more knowledgeable. I had a fuel tank vaccum leak on my Corvette and changed out a hose plus a vacuum valve on the canister. Although the car passed the vacuum system test the supervisor still checked things by hand with a sniffer to see if he could find a whif of gas that would cause me to flunk again. Once they notice something you apparently become an "object of their affection."

My guess is that a Ecotec without any chrome, polish or metalflake, finished in OEM black with Fiero logos and marks would be less noticeable. Add to this the fact that it will pass the sniffer test without a problem, there isn't much to call attention to the engine. Only big problem will be the air filter/intake -- harder to make look factory.

quote Originally posted by x_pogo: I've checked search and except for a year old thread there isn't much on this. For swaps to be legal in my area all the smog stuff needs to be swapped over and operational. Not a big deal. But on many ECUs they will post a code if non-smog related faults exist. I worry that presence of a code will automatically cause the car to flunk the test. The only thing I can figure is to buy a running doner car and start cutting wires to figure what trips a code and then figure a work-around. Any thoughts?

I caught an episode of Extreme 4x4 (don't own any off-road vehicles, but they do some interesting things on the show), where they outlined how to do a "50 State Legal Engine swap".

http://www.powerblocktv.com...T2008-16&ep_sea=0802

I don't remember all the rules, but the main ones were:
1. New engine must be from a similar vehicle (same year or later) from the same car company as the car it's going into. Ecotec from Cav/Sunfilre/Ion/Alero into Fiero is OK. Dodge Viper V-10 (if it would fit ) into Pontiac Fiero is not OK.
2. All emissions components from donor vehicle must be installed (and working) with the new engine.
3. The VIN in the ECU must match the VIN of your car (they had theirs reprogrammed).

All that aside, when I got my car inspected after putting it on the road, the guy never even looked at the engine or hooked up to the OBD-1 port. I think that the requirements for smog testing are pretty minimal on an 84 in Massachusetts.

I believe that the trouble that one might encounter isn't always with the sniffer test for nox and CO gasses but with the states that attach to your OBD2 port and do a scan. You could get the EGR system to work but the PCM controled Evap systems and gas tank pressure monitoring that PCMs look for would IMO be very hard to get operational. While you can shut off DTC's that you might not need by editing the program, the states that do it this way have a protocol of what to look for in the scan so if the code shows up as "not reported" it might send a red flag. However, Fieros never had OBD2 ports but ALDL ports so that MIGHT exempt you. I am not sure if any state plugs into an ALDL connector as part of the inspection test.
This whole issue is pure bureaucratic government BS as the Ecotec even with minimal emissons controls will run far cleaner than any Fiero engine ever did
.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

because i used the cavalier fuel pump and all the hardware and wiring that came with the cavalier originally , all the emissions systems that come with a 2003 cavalier are operational on my fiero .nothing was married to the fiero harness except lights etc .the fiero computer is not even in my car , nor is any of the fiero engine wiring harness .all the emissions system operate properly as confirmed by my HP tuners scanner .whether that would help or not with a fussy inspector who might not overlook the visual aspect of the test , i dont know .

WFTB, you da man. Good point. If your scan shows everything is OK then we're good.

Still, the evap system is a little tricky. Apparently on earlier cars the ECU didn't monitor it so the inspectors have a physical test to make sure it is operational and doesn't leak. I seem to remember that they take the gas cap off, attach a fixture with hoses to the filler neck, crimp off a hose or two under the hood, then conduct the test. This is done with the engine off. If they don't see the Ecotec ECU then they would have no reason to hook it up to the ECU port. They then would use the old mechanical test. Just have to make sure it functions just like the original AND it produces no codes.

One last observation about the Government Smog Folly. I noticed that here in Arizona they are secretly testing and measuring each car's CO2 output in grams per mile. Since there is no practical way to reduce CO2 emissions the only likely reason is to eventually charge a CO2 tax on top of your tag fees. More expensive foolishness on the way.

[This message has been edited by x_pogo (edited 11-30-2008).]

quote Originally posted by wftb: because i used the cavalier fuel pump and all the hardware and wiring that came with the cavalier originally , all the emissions systems that come with a 2003 cavalier are operational on my fiero .nothing was married to the fiero harness except lights etc .the fiero computer is not even in my car , nor is any of the fiero engine wiring harness .all the emissions system operate properly as confirmed by my HP tuners scanner .whether that would help or not with a fussy inspector who might not overlook the visual aspect of the test , i dont know .

I think that would be the only way to make an Ecotec swap work in Cali.