Hi All

Just looking for a quick steer - my latest Fiero ('early 84 SE) has the usual sort of problem with the headlight motors not working. I've tried a couple of searches, but there seems to bea few conflicting threads out there.

My symptoms are:

Parking lights light up when switched on.
Headlights light up when switched on.
Headlights will not go up automatically.
If raised manually, they will not go down when switched off.

Where should I be looking first?

TIA

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'85 SE 2M6 automatic
'84 SE 2M4 manual
(and working on buying an Indy...)

Since both doors are acting the same... the motors may be ok ... and also the relays to the individual light assemblies but the circuit prior to the relays may be defective....

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Mark
In the Great Northwest!

I had the same issue but with only one headlight.

I opened up the headlight motor & found that one of the coil contacts had fallen off. I soldered it back on the arm, reassembled the case & the headlight works fine.

It is a bit odd that both dont work though...

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86 GT
87 coupe restoration project.

Hi Mark

If I understand this correctly, I should be looking (somewhere) for an isolation relay with yellow and white wires on one side and dark blue, ground, pink and (some other colour I can't make out). Presumably I'm then looking for output from the dark blue and pink wires? How does this change when the lights are switched off, in order to drop the lights?

Apologies - whilst I can test for output/continuity etc, my recollection of what a relay does (other than, simply, acting as a switch) is lost in the haze of time...

Should probably have mentioned that a) the car has not been on the road for about 4 years and b) a lot of the loom has be chopped around with the conversion to right-hand drive.

Also, what is the source of your diagram - it's is certainly different to both ones in my Haynes and Chiltons manuals?

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'85 SE 2M6 automatic
'84 SE 2M4 manual
(and working on buying an Indy...)

[This message has been edited by Madscanner (edited 10-03-2008).]

it's Craigg
there are two Gs in my last name...

good luck

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 10-03-2008).]

quote Originally posted by NW-Fiero: Since both doors are acting the same... the motors may be ok ... and also the relays to the individual light assemblies but the circuit prior to the relays may be defective....

I would listen if you can hear the headlight motors being activated when the headlight switch is turned on. If you hear the motors working then they need a rebuild with new 1/2" nylon bushings placed within the gear housing assembly. If you don't hear the motors activating then its probably the relay. Remember those headlight motors are old and if you take them apart you will probably find that the gel inserts that were used have crumbled to dust by now.
Here is the link to the instructions to repair the motors. Nylon spacers 1/2" x 1/2" can be used is place of theDelrin bushings and just need to be turn sanded slightly on the O.D. to fit.

http://www.top-downsolution...9280Instructions.pdf

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 10-03-2008).]

Mine is doing something weird too. If you press the light button all of the lights come on but the headlamps won't raise. If you slowly press the light switch half way they will come up as long as you hold it there. Then once they're up you can lock the switch in the 'on' position.

Electrical Drawing is from Service Manual

Fiero Store 84-86 HEADLAMP RELAY
This AC Delco relay splits the power off to the other two relays on 84-86 Fieros. If both motors are not working, then this could be the problem. Located up by the left front headlight, on the left front inner fender.
Part #62620
Price:$32.95

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Mark
In the Great Northwest!

Hi

Followed BuddyCraigg's video and have concluded that the motors have had it...

I have proved a good headlight switch, but jumping the power to the motors would not raise or lower them, although I could hear the left-hand light relay click...

Tested the power to the left-hand relay - no problems there, but when I tried jumping the motor connections, nothing happened for either circuit.

Argh!

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'85 SE 2M6 automatic
'84 SE 2M4 manual
(and working on buying an Indy...)

I did this https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087182.html

In the first gen headlight system (yours) as you know there are (3) relays and a switch inside each motor. Some may disagreee with me but that system is a nightmare of design.

What you need are a couple of motors from an 88 Firebird and the control module, the rest is simple if you take your time. Try to harvest them all from the same car because there are several type of modules and only 1987-89 years will work. The GM module part number is 16523917 the firebird motor GM numbers: 16507923 and 24.
The module I am using came out of an 86 Vette.
Good luck!
sparx22

[This message has been edited by sparx22 (edited 10-04-2008).]

sparx22 ,Ya gotta remove the period at the end of your link, or it wont work. I cut and pasted it in my brouser, then removed the period. It worked great then.
Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 10-04-2008).]

Unfortunately, I've got more chance of buying a complete set of genuine rocking horse farts than finding a Firebird in a scrap yard over here...

even if you don't feel up to trying to rebuild them yourself.
at least take the side cover off and remove the limit switches to inspect them.

i suspect that your problem is there.

EDIT: i just saw your deck lid vent thread and noticed the discussion about being right hand drive and the wiring being messed up.
I just wanted to make sure you when you tested the motors, you had power to the Green wire and grounded the Grey wire when you tried to make them go up.
and power to the Blue wire and grounded the Green wire when you wanted it to go down

and that you were using a known good power supply and ground source.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 10-04-2008).]

Hiya BC

Yes - was happy with the hot and ground, and the testing process. It may well be down to the fact that the car has been sitting around for about 4 years...

Most of the wiring issues seem to relate to the fact that the loom had to be extended to reach the new pod position on the right-hand side.

Ciao!

quote Originally posted by josef644: sparx22 ,Ya gotta remove the period at the end of your link, or it wont work. I cut and pasted it in my brouser, then removed the period. It worked great then. Joe

Thanks Joe, don't know how that got there!

Double post

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 10-05-2008).]

Hi All

Just about to look at this again, after a few weeks away from it...

Basically, the lights won't go up or down, unless I wind them manually.

Following BuddyCraigg's video, the switch appears good (white hot with switch off, yellow hot with switch on), but nothing works beyond that. When jumping the white to the pink to make the lights go up, nothing happens. Does this indicate a problem with the isolator relay or the motors? (bearing in mind that the car has been standing for 4 years...).

I tried a bit of troubleshooting on the left-hand motor relay, but gave up when the first test failed. Checked that I had a good ground and power, then jumped the gray to the black, for ground, but when I jumped the green to the red, nothing happened.

Is it work taking the motors out and bench-testing them? How would I do that?

TIA.

You have to bench test these motors installed inside the buckets to get actual function.

4 screws to loosen/or remove to release the buckets. Disconnect the battery so you cannot get injured --- FIRST! The bottom 2 screws only need to be backed out NOT fully removed. The bucket has slotted holes on the bottom.

If you do this scribe around the top of the buckets so you may index the buckets back to the exact original location.

I mounted my buckets to the edge of my work bench with drywall screws and a couple of washers to test motors with my 12 volt battery charger in the shop, it worked for me!

Buddy craig has a step-bystep test porcedure posted here somewhere to test the motors BYPASSING those stupid relays. Yes I have attitude about the first gen headlight motors... :/

sparx22

I found it: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087068.html

Scroll down to about the 6th post, Buddycraigg has an excellent procedure posted there.
sparx22

If you need more: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/090048.html

[This message has been edited by sparx22 (edited 10-29-2008).]

Hiya Sparx22

To cut n paste fm BuddyCraigg's post:

With the motor attached to the headlight assembly.
Start in the down position.
Unplug the pigtail from the relay and the single blue wire.
Use jumper wires and apply power to the green wire, ground to the gray wire.
Does the headlight come up? No
Does the knob stop spinning once the headlight is up?
Watch the knob for about 60 seconds, does the knob twitch?
With the headlight in the up position, unplug the pigtail from the relay and the single blue wire.
Use jumper wires and apply power to the blue wire, ground to the green wire.
Does the headlight go down? No
Does the knob stop spinning once the headlight is down?
Watch the knob for about 60 seconds, does the knob twitch?

I assume the No's are your findings?

What did you use for a power source?
And they are out of the car?

[This message has been edited by sparx22 (edited 10-29-2008).]

sounds like your motors are dead.
have you pulled the side cover off and removed the limit switch to check the brushes?

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: sounds like your motors are dead. have you pulled the side cover off and removed the limit switch to check the brushes?

Not yet - will pull them today and see what I can see.

Thanks.

Finally got around to trying to sort this mess out...

Since I last looked at this, a headlight relay came up on eBay over here - very unusual to see stuff like that over here, so grabbed it while I had the chance.

When it was delivered, I realised that it was an isolation relay and not a headlight relay, as advertised, but this turned out to be an advantage.

Swapped it in and I now have one headlight that goes up and down, so just need to sort out the other one. I'll try swapping the headlight relays around to see if the fault can be narrowed down to the relay, in which case I can then look for a replacement.

(Just started snowing here so, since I don't have a garage, or a driveway, I might have to pass on this till next weekend...)

Ciao!

Well, finally started back on this job...

First, I replaced all three relays on the 2M4 with the (known good) relays from my 2M6.

Once I did that, the right-hand headlight moves up and down when the light are switched on, but the left-hand headlight does not (both lights do light up).

I tried swapping the two motor relays around, but it made no difference.

That suggests to me that there is a problem between the isolation relay and the left-hand motor but wondered where...

I tried following some of BuddyCraigg's troubleshooting - unplugged the motor pigtail and single blue wire, then tried to power the motor up or down, with no luck.

I'm guessing there is an issue with the motor (which is the point I arrived at 6 months ago) but now need to know what to do/look for when I pull the headlight bracket out.

Any suggestions?


(once I get this job done, it's on it's way to a new owner...)

[This message has been edited by Madscanner (edited 10-02-2009).]