Since fieroguru has about finished his swap and cowan1984's project has slowed down, I'll try to keep some interest going in 4.3's with my effort.

I was originally just going to install a new shortblock 2.8 or 3.4 This was my daily driver and I needed something dependable. When I got to pricing out all the parts I would also need: heads rebuilt, new alternator, new AC pump, etc., it was going to run well over $2000. I came across this almost new (8000 miles) 4.3 from a wrecked Silverado. It was complete with all accessories, sensors, wiring, and computer for only $1000. As soon as I got it home I ordered Archie's adapter & starter. I was getting ready to start the swap when some life experiences and a couple of hurricanes postponed the work for two years. Last fall I began working on it again. I had a spare cradle and trans I'd gotten from another forum member who lives near who's also doing a couple of V-8 swaps. I wanted to fit as much as possible before actually taking the car apart.
My first challenge came when I tried to make my own oil filter adapter. The 4.3 uses a small filter like on the LT engines instead of the larger SBC, so the standard remote setup didn't work. I had some pictures of the prototype designs, but they seem to have disappeared into some electronic limbo where I can't find them. This is what I finally used:


Then I had to change the positions of the accessories to fit the Fiero engine bay. I wanted to keep the original water pump and serpentine belt system. I took measurements from the 2.8 and it looks like the stock 4.3 stuff will still fit. I won't know for sure until I actually test fit in the car.
This is an old shot of the accessory mount I built before I changed it to hold the tensioner:


These are the accessories rearranged to fit the Fiero bay:


The next thing was the exhaust. I'd read that two Astro headers were needed. What I found out was that this applied to a manual trans, whereas I am using an auto. Luckily, by moving the stock Silverado feft side to the right side of the engine, the header would clear the trans & VSS housing.


another angle:


I took measurements off the stock 2.8 system to build the exhaust. Again, I won't know how well it fits until I actually stick it in the car, but it looks neat in the pictures.






(NOTE: disregard sloppy welding technique as I am a self-taught welder, and I had a LOUSY teacher!)

The one thing that has really stumped me so far is the wiring. I wanted to keep the computer, wiring, and sensors pretty much intact to keep the phenominal reliability of the 4.3, and maybe to be the basis for a turbo later on down the line. All I know about automotive computers is what I've learned on this forum on Fieros and from a Haynes manual on the Silverado. I sorted out and identified as many sensors, controllers, and wiring as I could, but there was still a lot of stuff lefter over that I can't figure out:




Rather than holding up the swap any longer I decided to go carb for now and get the wiring & fuel injection worked out later. I already had a small 4B carb & distributor from other projects so I ordered a new manifold:




This should make wiring much easier for now!
I pulled the 2.8 & cradle about 2 months ago thinking the new setup would be installed and running in about a week. Boy was I wrong! It took that long to get the trans back from the shop. Life has a way of intruding on your creative mechanical time.
Once the engine & trans were together, I installed new trans mounts & put the whole thing on the cradle. Since this is not a V-8, I couldn't use Archie's measurements to align the engine/trans. The thought hit me that it wasn't as important to have the engine straight as it is to have the trans & axles square and straight, so I used a straightedge to the cradle mounts to line the axle holes with the cradle. The center of the crankshaft is the same measured height above the bottom of the cradle as the 2.8 was. I tacked the engine mount to the cradle, measured everything again, then welded the mount permanently.


I tried to install the exhaust system. It wouldn't go in without moving the engine/trans. That wouldn't be any good if I had to work on it later so I installed a flange and everything went right together. I just hope this doesn't create a leak problem later.


These are all the big things I've done, I'm still working on details now like the throttle/trans linkage, coolant hoses, and fuel hoses. I'll post these as I finish them.
I'd like any positive comments or criticism or feedback you have.
Thanks,
Egor

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____________________________________________
"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

Nice work! Thanks for the pics.

edit: oh yeah, another 4.3 was completed not to long ago, so wiring help is here they just not on yet.

[This message has been edited by Edaw 0 (edited 05-29-2008).]

Looking good!

I might have 20 miles on mine so far... Hopefully I will drive it some more this weekend, finish putting the interior back in, notch the deck lid and go for the first fillup to see if my tank mod will allow more fuel in the tank.

I started to post some more pictures last Sunday night but I couldn't get PIP to work. I've been on "nights" since then, so haven't had any time to work on the engine.
Some of these are that "just a little different" from a normal v-8 swap to make them worth posting.

First is the front motor mount. It is an Archie's mount but turned around backwards so the AC compressor would fit better with the stock 4.3 pulleys:



Just like fieroguru, I had to rotate the starter to clear the exhaust manifold. Instead of rotating it on the adapter plate as he did, I rotated the motor on the mount. I needed to move more than the manufacturer's adjustment holes would allow, so I drilled & tapped new holes in the mount:



It doesn't go quite as far as his, but there is now enough clearance to keep from cooking the starter. I also made a deflector shield to help keep the heat away:



Just for kicks, here is a comparrison of the two engines. The 4.3 looks a lot bigger than the 2.8 in the picture. That's probably just a trick of perspective:


Some time back I was forced off the road by an idiot on a bike, hit a curb at 60+, and went off a 4 foot drop into a large ditch. It ruined 3 of the 4 new tires & did a number on the suspension. I already rebuilt the fron end, now I'm redoing the rear suspension too since the cradle is out anyway. Everything is new except the springs:


Last Sunday night I did some trial & error fitting on the throttle/TV cables connection. I took the swivel plate and mount off the 2.8 throttle body to use on the carb and later on the 4.3 throttle body. The little pivot pin that 2 of the cables attached to didn't come off so I had to split a bolt and grind down a nut to half thickness to take its place:




This way I can still use the orignal 2.8 cables.

Maybe I'll get to work on it this weekend, finally, since I'm supposed to be scheduled off. This is taking a lot longer in calender time than I thought it would, even though the actual work time is about what I had planned. The periods when I get into the garage are shorter and farther apart than I had planned.

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____________________________________________
"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

Looking good!

I finally got some time off to work on my project again. Looking at the last entry, I see that it has been 2 MONTHS since I last worked on the car! Man where does time go?!
I did get to make a couple of rounds at the "Hot August Nights" car celebration in Beaumont last night, and it was probably the most people and cars I've ever seen at "The Cruise".

This afternoon I opened the garage and did a few things to the engine/cradle.
First, I finished forming & running the tubing for the fuel lines. Since I'm going carb for the short term, I put in a regulator to drop the pressure down.



Then I ran the inlet & exit lines down along the water pump to be connected to the original stock lines from the tank:



I also installed the original oil pressure sender with a "T" and a gauge that will be mounted in the engine compartment:



I got a torque strut from Archie with the V8 kit, so I decided to use it even though I plan to also build a mount and reinstall the original dogbone that was on the 2.8:

Well, I was going to post a picture here of the torque strut, but PIP won't let me for some reason. Anyway, it is done.

I hooked up some spare battery cables, a good battery, pulled the plugs, and cranked the engine over for a minute. There were two reasons for this: 1 to make the sure the starter worked and was fairly well adjusted, and 2 to put new oil to all the bearings and check the lines to the remote filter for leaks. Everything looked & worked well.

I ran all the bolts on the new suspension up tight and its ready to have the struts installed.
I'm susposed to have Tues & Wed off to work on the car, so I think I'll try to put the engine/cradle back into the car then.
Wish me luck,
Egor

Looks great, still debating about the 4.3 swap I had originally intended for the GT.
Keep up the thread as I am now torn between the 327 a neighbor has and the 4.3.

How well do these motors work in a Fiero? I drive a truck with a 4.3 at work and it has a lot of torque. Probably not a racing motor, but it sure pulls well.

quote Originally posted by RCCDrew: How well do these motors work in a Fiero? I drive a truck with a 4.3 at work and it has a lot of torque. Probably not a racing motor, but it sure pulls well.

I use my 4.3/4T60 Fiero for daily driving back and forth to work. It has plenty of pep to keep it interesting and I have been averaging between 25 and 28 mpg. My commute is 19 miles 1 way with 9 stop lights.

i had a new four three in my 98 blazer, that thing did pull that fat son of a ..... pretty well. but got crappy gas milage at the same time. now in a fiero, that would be insane. all these four three swaps are making it so tempting since i am very familure with that motor. and the 98 wiring harness. a 99's harness is different, and im sure a 97's as well.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

I last wrote that on Sunday night I tightened all the bolts on the new suspension that was installed with the engine swap. On Monday afternoon, in the light, I found that the left rotor and spindle was tilted out from the axle pushing against it. The axle was bottomed in the transmission and couldn't move any further. I had moved the trans over to the left about an inch, which most V8 swaps need, to help with clearence on the right side of the engine. Apparantly it is too much.


You can see just how much the spindle and rotor are tilted in the picture compared to the straightedge.

This afternoon, I took a spare cradle, installed suspension, axles, brakes, and wheels and put it in the car. I took measurements and found that if I move the trans back to the original holes, the 4.3 will still have about an inch clearance on the right side even with its stock water pump and huge crank pulley.
This will set back the swap quite a bit as I will have to cut off the front engine mount that I just hard welded to the frame and modify the exhaust again to fit the engine that's in a different place. As I mentioned before: I'm a self-taught welder and I had a lousy teacher!

By the way, on the comments on how the 4.3 would perform in a Fiero, the stock 4.3 and the Cadillac 4.9 v8 have almost the same horsepower and torque ratings and both seem to run out of steam on the higher rpm levels. They should be pretty similar in a Fiero. One difference is that the 4.9 is somewhat limited in aftermarket performance items whereas the 4.3 can use many of the parts and techniques used on SBC's to more than double its output ( you're only limited by your checkbook ).

Well I'll take a few steps back, then maybe by next week I'll be able to start striding forward again.
Wish me luck (good this time),

Egor

Thanks for your informative post. I hate when there are setbacks like that. Live and learn. Keep up the great work.

I don't know much about exhaust pipe diameters, and what effect they have. However, to me it looks like you need to use a bigger piece of pipe between the muffler inlet and the point where the two header pipes meet. It looks pretty restrictive right there.

Well, its been a long time since I last posted anything on this swap. Mostly this is because of Hurricane Ike and its aftermath. Luck was with us in that we only had a few thousand dollars of damage to the house, but, the plant where I work was flooded with 5 feet of salt water. Anything electrical was damaged and had to be replaced or rebuilt. I didn't get back on my regular schedule until the last week before Thanksgiving (we were working 12 hr days straight through until startup), so this week has been my first time off to work on the Fiero.
My last post was about the engine/trans being mounted too far to the left to let the spindle sit straight up & down. I moved the trans back to the original mount, rebuilt the front engine mount(and I must admit it is stronger and better now), and cut and reshaped the exhaust pipes. The spindle is again straight and the suspension works as it should.
I used a come-along to drag the car back into the garage. I made a pushbar to fit into the trailer hitch to get the car up the hill into the garage, but I found another use for it also. When I pulled the 2.8 I used the hood latch for a lift point but that bent the latch. This time I used the pushbar to lift the car when I slipped the cradle under:





Maybe with all this extra power I just leave it there to act as a drag bar!

Now, all of a sudden, I'm having trouble with PIP and it won't post pictures anymore.
Oh well, it's late, I'll finish this tomorrow.
Egor

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____________________________________________
"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

glad to see a 4.3 install i think it is a very under rated engine and is a good engine for the fiero with alot of performance potential

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 12-06-2008).]

For anybody that is reading this thread; STOP! THINK & CONSIDER! Unless you have a spare 4.3 laying around, or it is free, DON'T do this swap. For the same time and energy, do the 3800 II swap instead! For the same time and effort you can produce... (V-8 owners ~ cover your ears <now> ) the 3800 II can, and will, produce very similar results to that of a V-8 swap.

(I know you are saying "He really just wants to keep us guys from buying up all the 4.3's that are out there". Not true, it's just the 4.3 goes into all kinds of modifications that the 3800 II requires, so...).

'Sorry for 'jacking this thread, I'm just sayin'.

[This message has been edited by 85GT3.4Track4spdCar (edited 12-06-2008).]

It is good to see you back at this project.

My 4.3 has been my main commuter car and have put over 3000 miles on it. I think it has a very good balance of power (plenty fun to drive, even with an auto) and fuel efficiency (average between 25 ans 26 mpg for my commute). At 26 mpg, it is 9 mpg better than my truck or SBC fiero on the same commute. My next upgrade for it will be a numerically lower geared 4t60 in effort to improve the fuel efficiency even more (goal is 30 on highway).

both 3800 and 4.3 can be built to big HP just a matter of how much money you are willing to spend I like the 4.3 due to you can put a carb on it like in this thread and no wiring or you can go fuel injected and you can hot rod it like the SBC but it fits in the engine compartment better than a V8

Last night I got up to the point where the cradle was to be installed when PIP quit working for me. I'll try to continue from there.

When I tried to install the first time, I found that the idler pulley at the top of the engine ( where the dogbone is mounted on the 2.8) was bumping the strut tower. Somehow I had missed this one measurement when planning the swap. I pulled the cradle, welded some additional metal to the accessory grid, and relocated the pulley. On the second try, the engine and cradle just slipped right into place. I can tell you I was simply amazed since this is my first Fiero engine swap!

In the picture you can see where I welded the extra metal & moved the pulley:


The engine fit surprisingly well into the hole. Note that the stock battery holder has been removed. I will relocate it to the front. The alternator would not have fit had I left the holder in place.

Clearence between the engine and the trunk is enough to put a hand through:



One of the things I was aiming at with this "little different" swap was to use the stock water pump, drive pulley, and accessories. I knew it would be tight because everyone else uses the shorter pump and pulleys. As it happens, the pump pulley sits just above the frame (as in Archie's V8 applications) and the drive pulley just clears the frame lower down.


You can't see it very well in that picture, but the clearence is pretty close. I will probably pull the engine later and either notch the frame about a 1/4 inch or just beat it in a bit with a hammer.


My final concern was whether the hood would fit over the carb and air cleaner. Many V8 swaps have to notch the underhood area to make enough room. This one fit right into the indented space between the hood ribs with plenty of room to spare:




I also didn't have to trim the hinges or anything else.
The next thing I need to do is install the wiring. This is simplified by using the carb. I have it strung out similar to Archie's video to make it easier:



Well, I guess this is the final installment on my 4.3 swap adventure. It certainly took longer in calender time than I had anticipated, but the actual work time was about right. I would recommend it to anyone looking for a different type of swap.
My next project will be to install a 4speed automatic.
After that, with the help of my computer savy Son, I will reinstall the stock electronics & fuel injection and then Turbo!

But these are for future threads.
I hope some of you were entertained and maybe even learned something from this thread and will be encouraged to try something on your own. Just make it your own "little different".

Egor

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"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

AWESOME DONT STOP!!!!! KEEP US UPDATED. No realy dont stop, What an awesome build thats why I bought a Fiero cause there different and inspire creativeness. My buddy did the same with a 4.3 as pertains to removing the smart stuff and keeping it simple he put it in an older truck and it worked great. thanks for the good pics

I like it!
I have a 2001 Sonoma with the 4.3. It pulls like a train.
I have often wondered how the 4.3 would feel in a Fiero.

I was going to ask what you were doing for ignition control, since you're using a carb.
My '01 4.3 has no provision for adjusting the timing.

Then I noticed the old school HEI cap.

Best of luck. Please keep us posted.

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Raydar
88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red

Read Nealz Nuze! Praise the Lowered!

Have you noticed that the Torch of that welder stays "HOT" at all times? if you want it to act like a quality welder then gather up a short extension cord, a 12VDC 2000mAh (2Amp) wall wart transformer, 12 volt mount tabbed relay, and an old Ford fender mounted Starter Solenoid. Now mount the relay to a wall inside the case as well as the Solenoid then route the cord from inside the case to inside the wire reel area. Hook the cord up to the extra tabs on the switch that gain power when the switch is ON. to switch the power on the cord for the transformer. Next take the wires from the Transformer and find the Negative wire. Attach this wire to the solenoid winding lug and then make a jumper to go from there to the winding of the relay. Next Take the two small trigger wires from the torch and either unplug them or cut them. You'll now attach one of the torch trigger wires to the 12VDC positive wire from the transformer and attach the other to the Positive Winding lug of the solenoid. attach a small wire to continue from the positive winding of the solenoid to go to the positive winding wire of the relay as well. Now take the Parts of the Torch trigger wires that went to the welder side and attach one to the Common spade of the relay and the other to the Normally Open (NO) side of the relay. Now power it up for a quick test and pull the trigger if the wire feeds then so far so good. If not re read the above. Now unplug the welder. Remove the positive wire for the torch connection and attach it to one of the Large lugs on the Solenoid. Now make a small jumper to attach to the other Large solenoid lug and reattach it to the positive lead connector. Now look over your work once again and plug in the welder attach the ground clamp to a piece of scrap then turn on the machine. Touch the weld wire to your scrap if there's no spark so far so good. while holding the wire against the scrap pull the trigger.... it should begin to weld. If so all is well and you will be able to start your welds in a much cleaner way. Also it improves safety of the machine!!! Especially after you've already blown a small hole through the back of your half filled fuel tank because the torch wire hit it when you lifted your helmet to take a look at your meld on the exhaust you just repaired under the car. Luckily Fuel liquid burns and vapor explodes or you'd never know this bit of info. and ALWAYS keep a fire extinguisher within reach while you work.

Campbell Hausfield for the WIN!

Stu

I am glad you kept the stock 4.3 pulley and waterpump. The next person to do this swap will most likely go that route since It allows you to recycle most of the 4.3 parts vs. using different parts (harmonic balancer, waterpump, and pulleys).

My 4.3 accessory drive was geared more towards potential application to my SBC fiero, so I keep the belt as snug as possible to the engine.

Hurry up and get it running, I want to hear some sound clips!

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-07-2008).]

For a cleaner look you can also just twist that oil fill extension tube out of the valve cover just like the cap would then the cap will screw into the cover like normal. Just in case you didn't already know that.

Nice fit! Keep updating the thread. Your not done yet!
Thats my dad. I am also doing a swap, we have been kinda close with our progess so far, but I think he just took the lead. Hope to see it running soon, then you can drive it to my house and help me.

Thanks for the tip DIY_Stu. You have a PM.

Fieroguru: When I picked up the engine, it was complete with ALL wiring & accessories, which included the alternator & AC compressor that I needed for my car anyway. That's when I decided to use it as stock as possible without changing any pulleys just to see if it would work. I could always change it be like the V8's if necessary. It seems to have worked out.

To any who become upset with the idea of using a 4.3 instead of a SBC, 3800SC, or etc etc etc, this was strictly a personal choice, just like religion or the color of my underware.
On the drawing board already is a 4.9 swap with a totally different top end look: different intake & accessary arrangement. I'll probably never do a project just like someone elses just because I want it to be "a little different."
My son, Dracor, who just posted is building up a 3800SC that is different from anything I've seen on this forum. I started the project & he has taken it over to make it completely his own. That should be the driving force behind this forum: to be innovative or to help those who are trying to be.

I think I'll get down off my soapbox now, it seems a little rickety.

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"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

I think an update is in order. I hear someone might have got something started....

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'84 3800SC, XP cam, 3.2 pully, HPTuners, N* TB, 4sp, SPEC 3+ clutch, Aluminium flywheel, pacesetter headers, F355 body kit, weight reduction

I had an S-10 Blazer with this engine, it had great torque and was reasonably fast even in that application. In a Fiero, I bet this engine will prove to be excellent!

Great job!

I got to fire it off for the first time Monday afternoon (9/21).

Since there are no timing marks anywhere, and I am using a new distributor, I had to play with it some to get it to start. Once running, it smoothed out at idle and sounded great through the 3 inch inlet muffler. I wrapped it a couple of times just to listen to a good mellow sound without any raspy noise. I stopped & started the engine a couple of times to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

Just as I was shutting it down for the last time, I noticed the front of the engine kind of shaking and moving a bit.
That's when I remembered that I had removed the front engine mount bolts to elongate the holes for better adjustment.
Well, it kind of adjusted itself around the engine compartment! Now I will have to remove the mount, modify the bolt holes, and reinstall before running the engine again.

After this little excitement, I decided to check everything around the installation and found that the oil filter adapter for the remote oil filter was leaking a little bit. That's the second thing on the list to be removed and modded before driving. Also, the trans shift linkage at the trans kept popping off after changing position a few times. I never had any trouble with it before removing the original 2.8. Maybe it was just at the worn out point when I popped it off & now just won't stay.

All in all, I was pleasantly surprised that the initial startup went so easily. Allthough I've removed & installed several engines/trans before, this was the first time I've done a swap with a new type of engine where I had to make so many changes. I would recommend that anyone with normal mechanical skills and (almost as important!) an adequate amount of room to work, could try a swap. Just remember that it will take a lot more time than you think it will to complete. If you think it will take 2 months, better plan on 6 to 8 months. Life always has something to throw at you that will slow it down.

I hope to get these small problems fixed before the Red River Rucus in Baytown so I can attend.
Wish me luck,
Egor

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____________________________________________
"Of all the things I have lost during my lifetime, I miss
my mind the most."

As far as making it to The Rucus,
Oil leak: No problem, carry a spare quart
Trans linkage: Hey you only need it it work once to GET there, hehehe

quote Originally posted by Egor: Just remember that it will take a lot more time than you think it will to complete. If you think it will take 2 months, better plan on 6 to 8 months. Life always has something to throw at you that will slow it down.

Yup, I know how that goes. That same hurricane delayed me atleast 3 months.