Quick question after reading over sardonyx247's thread. Can I use the 2.8 harmonic balancer, or do I have to get one from a 3.4. There isn't any real difference is there, because I already put the one from the 2.8 on.
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12:05 AM
PFF
System Bot
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Either balancer will work. The only difference is where the timing marks on the balancer are located. The Fiero has the timing scale on the left side of the timing cover and all other 60* V-6 have it on the right side. If your Fiero balancer is good, There is no problem using it. If it is bad (the outside ring can seperate from the inside ring making the timing marks shift or worse the balancer falls apart) You can use a new one but you will need to scribe new lines for the timing marks to line up correctly with the left hand timing scale on the Fiero.
------------------ Happiness isn't around the corner... Happiness IS the corner. ZZ4 Powered !!
Adding to what Oreif mentioned, what happens is the rubber insulator separating the inner hub from the outer ring can deteriorate. This can get to the point where you effectively no longer have a one-piece harmonic balancer. When this happens, your timing indicator gets thrown off, so when you think you’re setting the timing right visually, you’re often just making the timing worse. I’m not aware of any good fix for a delaminated harmonic balancer other than getting another one.
On the other hand, if your harmonic balancer is in good shape, or new, one useful trick is to scribe the timing mark on the balancer’s outer ring, and extend that all the way onto its inner ring. That way, down the road you’ll be able to see if the outer ring has moved, becoming misaligned from the inner ring. In turn, this will help alert you to your timing efforts being thrown out of whack by harmonic balancer delamination.
Type-o ----- ( Actually a 3.4L harmonic balancer will NOT work for the 2.8L because of the three star where the pulley mounts as to the 4 star of the 2.8L ) { i meant to say basically you need to use the 2.8L balancer with the 3.4L block to make everything work right} ..... and the timing cover from the 2.8L will not allow the 3.4L balancer to sit properly in the location (close to the block). On the 2.8, the shaft is longer or should I say in the clear as it protrudes out of the circle thing than the 3.4 which the shaft is tucked in a little..... 3/8" difference
2.8L - 5.5" dia x 3.25" wide and weighs 5.5 lbs.
3.4L - 6.11" dia x 2.03" wide and weighs 4.67 lbs.
If you call Autozone and ask to buy one, they will give you this one shown below so be careful
The good thing is that with an internally balanced engine and a neutrally balanced harmonic balancer, you should be able to swap without hurting the actual balance of the engine.... As far as I gather.
[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 04-08-2009).]
Those slots in the 3.4 balancer are to run the SFI, so you would also lose the ability to run the sequential injection, if that matters. If you are running a Fiero ECM, it doesn't matter as you are back with batch fired anyway.
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06:34 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40762 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Actually a 3.4L harmonic balancer will NOT work for the 2.8L
Interesting. My 3.4 still uses my old 2.8 harmonic damper. It's been on there for many years with no issues.
------------------ Raydar 88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red Read Nealz Nuze!Praise the Lowered!
I prefer using the 3.4L balancer. Its newer and perfectly matched to the neutral balance of the 3.4L. As for the timing marks we measured the difference between them as per Oriefs spec and they were exactly 4.6" apart. Oriefs measurement agreeed with the one that we did using a dial indicator. It was right on the money. So with the front of the flywheel facing you go to the timing mark on the 3.4L balancer. With a precison tape measuring tape, measure 4.6" going counterclockwise from it. Now mark the balancer, ( I put a dimple with a hammer and a punch there) then scribe a line. I use a bottle of whiteout and run the line with the brush in the bottle. Then a shot of clear over it and it will last. Mine is 7 years old and you can still see that line clearly. You can also notch with a dremel but you'll still need to white the line so that it will be clear in for the timinbg task.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
your right Raydar... for the 3.4L swap you need to use the 2.8L balancer on the 3.4 block...
I was saying that you can't use the 3.4 balancer with the 3.4 block with the fiero timing cover, pulleys, etc when doing this swap.
The 3.4L balancer fits perfect on my 3.4L using the 87 2.8L Fiero front timing cover and the 3.4L oil pan. Seven years and no problems so far. It seemed bettter to use a newer balancer than an old high miles unit.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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10:03 AM
RotrexFiero Member
Posts: 3692 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Jul 2002
I have to ask!!!! Knowing this is off topic, but where do you get the names for your cars? And seriously, do you address you cars by these names!!! "Honey, Lets take Black Paralyzer to church this morning."
(BTW, any name suggestions for my Fiero)
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11:16 AM
PFF
System Bot
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15159 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I have to ask!!!! Knowing this is off topic, but where do you get the names for your cars? And seriously, do you address you cars by these names!!! "Honey, Lets take Black Paralyzer to church this morning."
(BTW, any name suggestions for my Fiero)
Asking for the courtesy of going off topic I will simply say this. I go by my real name here so naming my cars seemed logical. Its a habit that goes back to my early drag racing days when you had cars named The Exterminator, The Swamp Rat, The Widow Maker, The Pioneer etc. The race car drivers all had nicknames too like The Rockin Rabbi, The Moon Man, The Snake, Big Daddy, etc. The names for my Fieros come to me when I am driving them and open them up. The Black Paralyzer is a car that I built that I hope will paralyze a few racers at the track. The Collossus came about when I compare what I now have to what I had with the 2.8L . The power difference was Collossal. These Fieros don't see everyday use as they are hobby cars. Plus we have names for everything around here like the Cappuccino Machine is named Mr Enrico, the computer Big Den and my 6' tall wifey is "Little Paula". As to why???? " "I never realized that life was a game, the more seriously I took things, the harder the rules became" -Dave Mustaine I always remembered that as good advise. As for a nickname for your ride lets talk about in another post so back on topic before we are called trolls.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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05:30 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
Just FYI, the 2.8 / 3.1 harmonic balancers are also neutral balance.
But are all the 2.8 Fiero harmonic balancers the same? I checked with the Damper Doctor and a parts interchange web site and there are different part numbers for the 85-87 and the 88.
I don't know what the differences are between part numbers, or why the '88 had a different part number from the other year Fieros. I also don't understand why Damper Doctor uses a different part number for the '87-88 V6. Keep in mind that the '87 is externally balanced (via the flywheel/flexplate), and the '88 is internally balanced.
What I do know is that on the 60-degree V6, the damper is not counterbalanced. Any counterbalancing is done via flywheel/flexplate weights.
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 04-16-2009).]
Ok, so it has been established that basically you must use the 2.8 balancer with the 2.8 timing cover, and the rest of the accessories. I get that much, but I have another question, some of you might find this stupid, but I am about to see the inside of a 2.8 for the first time tomorrow, (I have a duke, currently) and I know the 3.4 very well. Why exactly is it that we can't use the the serpentine setup, which is far superior to any v-belt could ever be. Has anyone ever tried it that way before? If no one can post a reason that makes sense, I guess I could be the first, lol. I have studdied this swap in detail, so that I will know exactly what I have to do, and I know that the 3.4 timing cover flows opposite the 2.8, but sticking with the serpentine should correct that. in theory, the 2.8 flows opposite because it spins the opposite way, this is because of the belt setup, but the water shold still flow the same direction if you leave the 3.4 pulleys intact, you would just have to make a p.s. pump delete pulley. As for intake, distributor, and all else, I get that, it's so that you use the stock computer. Does what I just said make any sense? the only problem that I can forsee is the ac compressor, but I don't mind leaving that in there dead for a while, while I figure how to make it work in the Fiero, or make mounts that will let me wse another compresser that will work. Besides that, with the old alt, it absolutely kills everything when my bass hits, and night shows forget it, when I run the streetglow, tv,s, and everything else I practically bun my batt all the way down. The newer alt might help with that.
[This message has been edited by Wicked86 (edited 11-13-2009).]
