I have been reading about painting my fiero, only to be confused will all the information. I am trying to decipher all this information about hardeners, thinners, base paints, acrylics, clear coats, and spray guns. There must be an easier way to learn how to paint, and the best way, to paint my car.

Does anyone have any information to make this easier. Thanks.

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Thank for the sig. Bobadoofunk
1984 Fiero Sport Coupe
1990 Buick Reatta
2002 Chevy Impala base

Unfortunatly you are barking up the wrong tree.
Painting is an art and needs to be learned from a painter. (Tooting my own horn) I painted my son's Fiero and it won Best Of Class at Daytona in 2005. I did not learn my painting techniques from this forum. I learned from a painter. If you REALLY want to know how to paint a car (taping,sanding,grit,priming ,flash time,mixing ratios) this may not be the place to ask. It would be hard to teach over a couple of posts on the forum. Do yourself a favor and learn how to paint from a pro. It could save you alot of $.

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84 Show winner
88 LT1

roger garrison can give you good advice but painting is an art for sure and patience is key.

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you may have already come across this but...

http://www.autobody101.com/

i get along pretty well with a guy who has done body work on family cars and just went over there one day and asked him for some tips. luckily he wasn't busy and was a great guy, even said i could have him get the paint for me so it would be cheaper. watched him do it and practiced on some random things (wheel barrow looks great BTW). i can't say i'm a pro by no means and i have yet to paint my own car but i am confident. worst case scenario i just have to sand down and try again right??

Making mistakes with $200 a gallon paints is not fun, no matter who you are.

I would suggest learning as much as you can.. and practicing on little things... spray technique is a load of bull for the most part.. you basically just need to learn how to overlap passes correctly, and understand how the gun works, both can be researched and practiced.

Anyone have any experiance with Dupli-Color paint shop paints?

The Dupi-Color paint shop series is just simple lacquer products. These are 1K (no catalysts) products without the durability of modern urethanes. Lots of better choices out their at your local paint jobber shops.

I tried the Dupi-Color route a few months back. It came out alright, good but not great. Base and Clear Coat, 1-qt each, AutoZone about $50. I then paid a visit to the local auto paint shop and lessoned to what they had to tell me. Heeded their advice, 1-qt base and 1-qt of clear $300. Now I have what I consider a great job. The key is patience, even and thin. In other words several layers of thin coat as oppose to one thick layer. Not advocating this approach, just my method.

My 2cents............

Mike

I use some of the Duplicolor stuff, mostly the clear. If I have some simple repair job like a mirror on a dealer car, I spray the basecoat and follow up with the Duplicolor clear. I can put the mirror on in 30 mins and buff it out, deliver it. The good thing about them is their goof proof. There no mixing, hard to run, dries in minutes to keep down dust and bugs if you do it at home. Laquer jobs still outdo anything on the market in custom jobs. Most custom motorcycle painters still use it and I would be too if I could still get all the current car colors. You do have to take care of it, cleaning and polishing. There are plenty of 50s/60s cars in junkyards done in laquer 50 years ago that a buffing will bring back up to like new. I dont expect any of the new basecoats to last anywhere near that long outside in the weather. Look at your Fieros...there done in basecoat/ clearcoat and only 20 years old and 90% of them either need or have already been repainted. Most of you color sand and buff anyway, so why not do laquer. A gallon, all mixed and ready to go costs $80 and another $80 for the clear. No hardener, thinner or anything else. Plus you can spot in repairs later without even having to paint a whole panel. Scrape the bumper corner...just sand it, spray some color & clear on the spot and spray plain thinner around the edges and your done.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-25-2009).]

--/\-- Gives good advice.

I don't know if youv'e seen this thread, but DeLorean00 did a good write up on steps to painting in it.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/090549.html

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 03-25-2009).]

Thanks for the info. I have some practice painting plastic models, but I know that doesn't come anywhere near painting a car lol. I have some of the techniques down. My worst fear would have to be the corners. When I do it, the paint seems to be a little thin. Is there any trick to that?

Oh.. one more thing... Would taking the panels off help any?


Thanks again guys.

[This message has been edited by 1984whitesc (edited 03-26-2009).]

quote Originally posted by bonzo: Unfortunatly you are barking up the wrong tree. Painting is an art and needs to be learned from a painter. (Tooting my own horn) I painted my son's Fiero and it won Best Of Class at Daytona in 2005. I did not learn my painting techniques from this forum. I learned from a painter. If you REALLY want to know how to paint a car (taping,sanding,grit,priming ,flash time,mixing ratios) this may not be the place to ask. It would be hard to teach over a couple of posts on the forum. Do yourself a favor and learn how to paint from a pro. It could save you alot of $.

Depends on the results you are looking for. 90% of what is on the road wasn't done b a pro and is 'good enough'.

with a bit of practice and patience ( after the details are sorted out ) anyone can do a decent enough job if they got room.

quote My worst fear would have to be the corners. When I do it, the paint seems to be a little thin. Is there any trick to that?

you are in luck then, modern paints have a tendency to collect at edges, so you just paint the panel and do a little fan off. Leave the gun "triggered" at all times, so you are blowing air even when you are not painting, then bring the paint on quickly right before you pass infront of the panel you are painting. Also leave the "paint flow" wide open at all times, and adjust your fan pattern to be about 6 inches high 6-8 inches away from the panel.

quote Originally posted by Nurb432: Depends on the results you are looking for. 90% of what is on the road wasn't done b a pro and is 'good enough'. with a bit of practice and patience ( after the details are sorted out ) anyone can do a decent enough job if they got room.

I agree 100%

A couple quick pointers:
DON'T adjust the paint flow wide open. Good way to get runs & lots of orange peel.
DO take off everything you can to paint it. Only parts I leave on the car are the roof panels. Only way to do it right.
Anyone can get a show quality paint job if they have plenty of time, patience, & elbow grease. Read everything you can.
Do a search using my username. I've posted a lot of advice on paint work. (I have 40 years experience doing show cars).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.

I might sound ignorant lol, but what does DA sander stand for, and what are orange peels?

It seems that this shouldn't be to hard. I guess the hardest part is just to get started, and not be overwhelmed with this project.
I know all about patience when it comes to a fiero lol. There are times I had to step away from her because she was getting on my last nerve lol.

Driver, start just saying 'the way I do it' instead of ' the only way to do it right is..."

Ive owned my own business longer than 40 years doing everything from new Fire Trucks and new airplanes to NATIONALLY winning show cars. My shop specialized in exotic and high end cars like Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lambo and custom restoration jobs. I personally painted Al Copones Lincoln plus many that are in private collections and museums. I always paint with fluid control all the way open and get everything slick as glass. I never got a run in my life till I started with clearcoat urathanes because they are so thick. I prefer painting a car together except for easily removable stuff like wings. No one ever sees the inside of your car door, so who cares if its painted. I do remove all I can like trim, chrome, moldings, etc. Your also assured that everything you paint matches adjoining panels. Not so painting them all seperate. Ive got so many trophies around here, I use them for weights to hold down tarps. Ive had many people bring their cars 1/2 way across the US to let me paint it.

Sorry if I keep repeating myself on this but just gets under my skin sometimes when people say YOU HAVE to do this or that .

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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Approved
____________________________________________

05 Dodge Magnum Custom Hemi R/T
66 Dodge Killer Bee Coronet

DA Sander is a Dual Action sander. pretty handy little thing for sanding. I'm in the process of repainting my 87 GT the original Med Red. Base coat clear coat in the PPG paint with thinner and hardener cost me about $413 from the auto parts store. Bieng a novice I bought a gallon of clear and a gallon of base. I am fortunate that one of the finest paint /body shops in my area is having one of thier best coming out to paint my car. He is doing it free gratis, but i have to do all the body work. I'm very close to being ready for it, just using a bunch of primer to make sure all the scratches are covered well. Sometimes i feel i'm being too critical about some of the little blemishes but I feel if i can see them everyone will see them. I'm anxious to get it painted so I can put the mirrors back on and reassemble the interior. I know i have wayyyyyy to much paint but i felt that it would be handy for redoing the hood and trunk lids after i get the holes cut and covered for vents. going with cowl induction scoop up front and prolly a classic mustang scoop on the rear lid. I'd love to find a different nose fascia for it as well, but hey, i'm not built out of money. heh, ok nuff rambling on for now. Good luck with the paint, post some pictures as you make progress before and after if ya will. We are not all pro's and yet we love to see what people do or dont do correctly. it helps us all to learn.

DA= Dual action

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Driver, start just saying 'the way I do it' instead of ' the only way to do it right is..." Ive owned my own business longer than 40 years doing everything from new Fire Trucks and new airplanes to NATIONALLY winning show cars. My shop specialized in exotic and high end cars like Mercedes, Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Lambo and custom restoration jobs. I personally painted Al Copones Lincoln plus many that are in private collections and museums. I always paint with fluid control all the way open and get everything slick as glass. I never got a run in my life till I started with clearcoat urathanes because they are so thick. I prefer painting a car together except for easily removable stuff like wings. No one ever sees the inside of your car door, so who cares if its painted.

Well I can see the doorjamb, & the edges of the hood & trunk, & even without wearing my glasses!
I like to paint the WHOLE car when I do one...

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I do remove all I can like trim, chrome, moldings, etc. Your also assured that everything you paint matches adjoining panels. Not so painting them all seperate.

You can paint the panels off the car (& have them match), as long as you're smart enough to stand the vertical panels up. If you don't (as in if you lay the door panels down flat), the metallic will settle & make them darker.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive got so many trophies around here, I use them for weights to hold down tarps. Ive had many people bring their cars 1/2 way across the US to let me paint it.

I don't have any trophies - I let the owners keep them all.
I've had folks bring their cars from as far as Ohio, here to Ga. Maybe not halfwway across the US....

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Sorry if I keep repeating myself on this but just gets under my skin sometimes when people say YOU HAVE to do this or that .

Sorry, but I believe to do it right you have to paint the entire panel. Edges included.

~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

I *thought* I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

I know how to mask. I paint all visible edges and jams, even on color changes and you will have to take something apart to find a different color. I mask interiors off at the doors and can shoot all the jams, undersides and outside all at once. You just shoot the jams and edges and push it shut...its not rocket science. How do you paint a true candy color ? Guarantee nothing you do will match any other piece, so if you paint that together why not red or white too? I only keep the trophies I win with my own cars, and like you customers can keep their own.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-27-2009).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I know how to mask. I paint all visible edges and jams, even on color changes and you will have to take something apart to find a different color. I mask interiors off at the doors and can shoot all the jams, undersides and outside all at once. You just shoot the jams and edges and push it shut...its not rocket science. How do you paint a true candy color ? Guarantee nothing you do will match any other piece, so if you paint that together why not red or white too? I only keep the trophies I win with my own cars, and like you customers can keep their own.

So you can get paint behind the front of the door on the jamb & fender without taking anything apart? Gee I wish I could learn to make paint turn corners like that.
With candies you have to paint the jambs (that you can't get to with the car together) while the car is apart, then assemble it & paint the rest.
The difference between us is you've made a killing doing your "scuff & douche" jobs, whereas I'm an artist & take the time to do it right. You once bragged here about scuffing & painting your Charger in one day, & buffing it the next. To me that's not something to brag about. Sure you can win trophies with a slick job, but how long will it last if all you've done is scuff it, tape it off, & shoot it? Not near as long as my paintjobs. And a color change without taking the doors off? Sure some shops shortcut it & don't worry about the areas that are hard to see, but I like to paint everything.
When I say "the only way to do it right", I mean RIGHT: to get the paint covered everywhere & to make it last. The guys here ask for advice: I tell them how to do it right. If someone dosen't care enough about their car to do it right, not gonna bother me at all.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Not sure where we're going but, no sense in being late!

I'll help out any way I can.

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 03-29-2009).]

Nope, I have no trouble getting any place you can see covered on most vehicles. If you can see it, you can spray it. Use a smaller gun if you need to, even an airbrush. Fire trucks for example (when I did them anyway) must be painted assembled because they are all welded together and driven to the paint shops. The only things missing are all the chrome and rubber trim. You have to paint inside and outside of every panel and compartment. It all has to be PERFECT with no flaws or they wont accept it. That means the inside of a hose bin has to be as nice as the hood on a Mercedes.

If your so great at doing quality work, why do you live in the back of a shop barely getting by ? Talent at anything, if known by anybody is usually paid quite well for the work. You should be working for Chip Foose or someone similar and raking in good amounts of cash........ya thats what I thought

If you want one ' really ' done right, you go get your GM Fiero parts book and order every part in it and put it all together yourself....now I sound like you....

Im not even going to bother going thru this all again...your just like Al Gore....your right and everyone in the world besides you is wrong.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-28-2009).]

Has anyone ever tried using this http://www.autoaircolors.com/ looks promising for the home diy folks out there as its 0.1 voc other then needing a standard urethane clear.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 03-28-2009).]

I'll try to give a couple of tips

How I painted my Alfa Romeo:

remove all panels that are reasonably easy to remove. Rub them down properly, so there are no shiny spots left..the new paint will NOT stick to them, and can result in 'fish-eyes'. I ALWAYS start with 500 grit on my DA sander, to remove all the old shine etc. When that is done, I go over it all with one of those sponge-type sanding blocks, to remove any swirls or scratches left by the DA. Then I wash it off with washing-up liquid and water, giving it a final levelling with some 800 grit wet and dry. when it is dry and clean, get some soft none-fluffy cloth, make sure the job is dry, and then lightly mist the surface with an aerosol can of totally different colour..literally just MIST it! When that is dry, I will rub down again with 500 grit, on a large block. This will remove all the misted paint from the high spots, leaving you with clear evidence of any dents or warps. I mark them with a pencil, about 2 inches around, and then sand out ALL the paint until I get to metal, or the material you are painting, up to the pencil mark. Then fill with body filler, right up to the bare edge of the dent. Then rub it all down until flat. Using your hand will never give you a true impression of whether it is truly flat...but if you spray primer over the damage repair, and look along the panel under a strong light, whilst the primer is still wet, you will clearly see any imperfections. Fill any small ones with cellulose putty, and sand down until perfect. When all that has been done to the removed panels, go over the exposed parts that are normally hidden when the panels are fitted, witha green pan-scrubber, until all the shine has gone (and accumulated dirt ) Mask up the rest of the car, using wire under rubber seals and lips etc, so the paint can get underneath the seal, after rubbing it down well. Now, mix your primer, filter it into your gun, and adjust the spray pattern by adjusting as you spray some onto a flat surface. Once it is spraying evenly and cleanly, start to spray all the damaged repaired areas, to about 2 inches over the old rubbed down paint. Make sure NOT to get very much primer on edges and bits that might take a sharp knock during its 'life'..primer is basically chalk powder and clear paint and thinners, so it never goes really hard. If you spray a lot over the exposed places, it will chip off easily because the hard finishing coat is on top of a weaker surface When everything that needs to be is covered, let it dry well. I always flat it down with some used 800 grit, and then wipe the whole lot with a degreasing detergent. When you are ready to start applying thre colour coat, just spray ALL the edges, recesses and 'hidden' bits.NOT the surfaces that are easily painted !! A couple of light coats to start with, and then a final one to give a solid colour.Then cover the colour coat with Clear. Let it all dry overnight if you can. Put all the panels back on, and line them up properly. When that is done, you can then gently go over all the painted edges etc with 800 wet and dry, let it dry, degrease, and then apply the colour coat over everything..This way, you have all the difficult to reach return surfaces etc already the correct colour, and you don't have to worry about getting paint into the difficult areas. Flat it all down with 1500 or 2000 wet and dry, degrease, and then apply the clearcoat. Follow the same system as before. spraying all the edges etc first with light coats, until you have built up enough coverage. Then you can spray the rest, coming up to the already painted edges etc without having to 'flood' it to make sure you have enough paint on them.
This is very sketchy, I know!! But....the rest is practice!! And here is the result I got, and this was straight from the gun..no buffing or anything:



One final tip!! ALWAYS empty your gun of paint, even for 10 minutes break, and run some good thinners through it, and soak the nozzle etc in thinners. I've tried to get by without doing this, and there is always a chance the paint in the nozzle, airways or gun itself will start going hard. You will end up spraying lumps etc that you thought you had removed when you filtered the paint into the gun in the first place!! Yes, it IS a pain..but not as bad as having to wait for the whole lot to go dry, and flat it all back again !! Make sure you have a moisture separator inline to the gun, and that your compressor is NOT putting through more pressure than the gun was designed for

Have fun
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 03-28-2009).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: If your so great at doing quality work, why do you live in the back of a shop barely getting by ? Talent at anything, if known by anybody is usually paid quite well for the work. You should be working for Chip Foose or someone similar and raking in good amounts of cash........ya thats what I thought Im not even going to bother going thru this all again...your just like Al Gore....your right and everyone in the world besides you is wrong.

Roger, now you're just being an ass. I have to live like I do because ****ing THEIVES stole almost everything I owned (3 times!). I had to sell real estate in three states, & quit my job & stay home just to keep what little I had left. Then I had to sell the house that my parents & I built in order to get out of debt & buy land & build what I could with the equity. I can't work full time, because I runied my body doing body/frame/paint for 35+ years working for guys like you. Just because you were born with a silver spoon dosen't mean everyone is. I've done pretty well for someone from a poor family up until the ****ing theives ruined my liife.
That's the problem with this country: everyone that has things going so well for them think that it is for everyone else too, & if it's not it's their fault. No compassion for the hard-working honest man. Apathy reins supreme.
I'll put ANY of my paintjobs up against your BEST. I do quality work, & don't take the shortcuts that 99.9 percent of the body shops in this country do.
~ Paul

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Nope, I have no trouble getting any place you can see covered on most vehicles. If you can see it, you can spray it. Use a smaller gun if you need to, even an airbrush. Fire trucks for example (when I did them anyway) must be painted assembled because they are all welded together and driven to the paint shops. The only things missing are all the chrome and rubber trim. You have to paint inside and outside of every panel and compartment. It all has to be PERFECT with no flaws or they wont accept it. That means the inside of a hose bin has to be as nice as the hood on a Mercedes. If your so great at doing quality work, why do you live in the back of a shop barely getting by ? Talent at anything, if known by anybody is usually paid quite well for the work. You should be working for Chip Foose or someone similar and raking in good amounts of cash........ya thats what I thought If you want one ' really ' done right, you go get your GM Fiero parts book and order every part in it and put it all together yourself....now I sound like you.... Im not even going to bother going thru this all again...your just like Al Gore....your right and everyone in the world besides you is wrong.

Amen brother... had to be said I was afraid i was gonna have to do it.. lol.. back to your thread sorry for the hijack

Yes you are right about epoxy primer, Paul..I should have said when using high-build primer because the thickness of it is made up from silica, which gives it the high-build capability. Yes Fieros are easy to disassemble. as you say. And I used the same process as I described to paint mine. that way, everything you need to hit that is not actually in direct line of vision is covered, and then, when you put it all back together and spray the rest, you are sure to get a perfect match between adjacent panels,especially metallic, because they are all painted with the finish at the same time.
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 03-28-2009).]

Gee guys, I have read many post from both of you and both offer very sound advise. The folks are asking for help in a first time paint project at home. Lets focus on sound advise on cleaning, prep, masking, priming, base and clear application and color sanding and buffing if desired from two experts. Not argue over panel on or off painting. These are personal preferences.

Tom

quote Originally posted by oldfiero: Gee guys, I have read many post from both of you and both offer very sound advise. The folks are asking for help in a first time paint project at home. Lets focus on sound advise on cleaning, prep, masking, priming, base and clear application and color sanding and buffing if desired from two experts. Not argue over panel on or off painting. These are personal preferences. Tom

Yeah Tom, I get that. Roger does a lot of used car repair & uses (according to him) laquer primer exclusively. I get that, too, for used car repair, but not for overall paintjobs with urethanes if you want them to last. I just hate to see folks doing things that won't last, after all the time & hard work that they have to put into a paintjob (if they do it right). Of course, they can always "scuff & douche" (as a former boss calls it) if they just want it to shine on the outside for a couple years.
As for the details on prep, paint, & finish; I suggest the folks do a search using my username. I've posted several with lotsa details. On or off panels? You can't get paint around the door lids, next to the hood & decklid where they meet the fenders when raised, the front & bottom of the door skins, & a myriad of other places with the car put together. Like I said, if the owners just care about the outside surfaces they can make that decision for them selves. I still maintain it's not a job done right.
It's funny: all my friends say "with all your talent you should be a millionaire". Roger says it's because I no good that I'm not.
I don't need that.
~ Paul

Paul, you're right, there are many different ways to paint a car..... once a "very good" painted stated to my son "there are no perfect paint jobs, some are better than others..." Personally, I prefer to remove the panels clean, prep, cut in and put back on the car for final color (base, mid and clear) to avoid color variations espcially in midcoat jobs. I'm pretty finiky on clean crisp lines on panel to chasis joins. Panel removal does the trick without lots of masking that is never perfect, not with me at least.

Anyway, both of you guys offer a great host of good information on the subjects. I've been out of paint and body work for quite some time so I too look to you guys for solid basic advise. Currently have my fiero all over the shop in the paint process. Still struggling with color... must have a dozen test panels with different pearls, still like just jet black with silver two tone. Another tread maybe.

Keep up the work of good basic body and paint advise for those of us looking on.

Tom

I started my shop with a months rent and a few hundred dollars in the bank, never got handed a silver spoon. I got my reputation from people mostly at car shows that liked my work. I still have most of those same customers from 30 years ago...they keep coming back. Yes I ONLY use laquer primer surfacer even on $25,000 paint jobs. I did a lot (meaning dozens) of Corvettes that have taken Bloomington Gold certificates. NCRS judges are the TOUGHEST in the world. Yes, lots of my 20 year old paint jobs still look like they did 20 years ago. After a few fiascos I had to eat, I refuse to even work on cars customers have used 2 part primer on. If I do, its now at their own peril.

Driver and Roger,

Being a gun collector, I have an effective functioning pair of dueling pistols in case you are interested in settling this feud for good.


Respectively, each of you have useful input on finishing but...

Sparx22

[This message has been edited by sparx22 (edited 03-29-2009).]

quote Originally posted by sparx22: Driver and Roger, Being a gun collector, I have an effective functioning pair of dueling pistols in case you are interested in settling this feud for good. Respectively, each of you have useful input on finishing but... Sparx22

And we agree on a LOT of things. Case in point: I don't paint cars that the owner has done primer work on either, unless I'm stripping all of it off. Never know what type of prep was done under it.
But I don't need the insults concerning why my life sucks right now. I DO know a lot of folks that make a lot more money than I do, because they use the same shortcuts that Roger uses. The laquer primer dries almost immediatly. It allows you to block & paint the same day. But it's not a good idea to put air-dried primer under catalyst-hardened paint. Why? The laquer primer soaks up thinner, & when the paint dries it seals it in. (edit: I have stripped a lot of cars that wre done this way with razor blades - the paint peels right off.) A factory rep once said "It's like painting a ballon". I have sent untold number of paintjobs to the other shops, because my price was too high. They shoot them in two days & send them out the door, & the folks are happy with them (at least for a couple years).
But any paintjob will last a long time if the car is garaged, & not driven daily. My jobs last for decades left out in the weather, & driven daily. That's the difference in using proper primers & prep, & quality paint. I think that's the case for most folks here: they drive it every day. May or may not have a garage. I just don't want to give advice that will shorten the life of their paintjob, after all the hard work they put into them.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Pardon my driving; I'm reloading.

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 03-29-2009).]