i am building the OpenGauge MPGuino v2.1 MPG monitor for my fiero. the kit comes with a backlit ugly green w/ black lettering LCD. i bought a black w/red lettering LCD from a chinese dealer on ebay. the kit was 39.95 + shipping and the pontiaccolored LCD was 9.80 + shipping. so in all i spent less than 50 bux for a real time MPG computer that installs in any vehicle. it connects to the VSS low and the injector driver grounds.
buiding is currently underway. i have ADHD hardcore and stopped in the middle of my build to make this post
getting back to work and a picture of the software load will come shortly.
Good to see an updated attempt. Oliver Scholz had all the schematics for an in dash unit that monitored the outputs form the ecm for the fiero and mounted in that little slot that looks like an extra odometer on the right side of the dash. He had alot of good info on that site, including what may be your biggest issue, determining the actual flowrate form the injector pulse width. There may be copes of the pages out on other fiero sites, as his site is now gone. Might be worth some surfing time!
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07:54 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
ive looked hard into that one. and had all the info to build one. just never heard anything back from him for the programming the chip needs. it was the same for the one touch window module. oh well. i have my own of each now. and were relatively cheap. im getting onto the programming stuff now. may god be with me because i dont know what im doing when it comes to this stuff.
Good luck with the project! Sounds interesting... I got my 87 GT back, and found another 3500 for $70. Maybe I will get it running longer than 2 months this time
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09:40 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
Good luck with the project! Sounds interesting... I got my 87 GT back, and found another 3500 for $70. Maybe I will get it running longer than 2 months this time
haha good luck on that man! the first 3500 that was in my car spun a bearing. this 3500 was had for free with some hook ups. so far its lasted since....sht, almost a year! and its only had like 300-400 miles put on it haha.
Where do you plan to mount it? What is the actual size of the display? Cool , not sure I really want to know what mine is doing for mpg. Seems like every time I get in it I have a really heavy foot and a big smile.
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10:34 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
i havent thought of that just yet. i gotta wait till i get it into its enclosure i make for it. then ill decide where i want it. its...well crap, i cant find my ruler to measure it with.
oooo, would this be a saleable item? I've wanted to make one myself, but I just don't have the knowledge for something like this and the ones selling on eBay are outrageous and won't work in Fieros anyway
just re-read your post, lol, thought it was a custom project, so this scanner does work for OBD1?
[This message has been edited by cujoe_da_man (edited 01-21-2009).]
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02:30 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
it works with anything that has a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and fuel injection. OBD I is much easier as OBD II has seperate control of each injector. at low rpm of course.
today is the first really warm day we have had in a while and that i have free time. so i am going to twist those together and check some grounds below my C500. and some wires on the 5 pin DIS connector.
today is the first really warm day we have had in a while and that i have free time. so i am going to twist those together and check some grounds below my C500. and some wires on the 5 pin DIS connector.
They have to be twisted together at a rate of not less than 9 turns per foot. I found another reference to it while checking for something else that mentioned it and explained that it is done to keep the electrical interference down which will cause a misfire. It explains the unusual crank signal I observed on the oscilloscope making it difficult for the module to sense the reference point.
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10:00 AM
topher_time Member
Posts: 3231 From: Bailey's Harbor, for now. Registered: Sep 2005
haha good luck on that man! the first 3500 that was in my car spun a bearing. this 3500 was had for free with some hook ups. so far its lasted since....sht, almost a year! and its only had like 300-400 miles put on it haha.
Sad thing is, this will be number 5 or 6 in this car turbos and very bad tuning... may just tow it to Darth and tell him to make it work. But my dd Land Rover comes first, needs an engine
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07:10 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
its number...1,2,3....carry the 12.....divide by....to the power of....... its looking like its number 7. or 8. my math and memory are shotty now but its a high number. in a really short time. haha. thats merlot and his half assing for ya! nah, most of it was not having access to the right info and learning the hard way. i think only 2 of these motors were paid for, rest have been free replacements. its all been N/A and there really hasnt been any tuning. had nothing to do with why the motors blew. if i could afford for darth to do it, it would have been done. that part will hafta wait till im outta the military and pulling in that disability pay. ow, my brain. and my back. :\ but yea, i feel ya man. for me, life comes first. this is just my side project. it will become more project time as it warms up.
its number...1,2,3....carry the 12.....divide by....to the power of....... its looking like its number 7. or 8. my math and memory are shotty now but its a high number. in a really short time. haha. thats merlot and his half assing for ya! nah, most of it was not having access to the right info and learning the hard way. i think only 2 of these motors were paid for, rest have been free replacements. its all been N/A and there really hasnt been any tuning. had nothing to do with why the motors blew. if i could afford for darth to do it, it would have been done. that part will hafta wait till im outta the military and pulling in that disability pay. ow, my brain. and my back. :\ but yea, i feel ya man. for me, life comes first. this is just my side project. it will become more project time as it warms up.
The 3500 has a factory rev limit of 6000 rpm, the VVT motors are around 6300 rpm. Superdave on the 60 degree forum spun a bearing or two in his 3500 and I believe it all had to do with spinning the engine up to 7000 rpm regularly on a stock balance and connecting rod bolts. Recall that merlot hit the rev limiter pretty hard in one of the two videos before the bearing failure suggesting that stronger connecting rod bolts should be used or maybe even pinning the bearing. Otherwise limiting revs to 6k is in order for the 3500. He did mention the possibility of oil contamination with fuel.
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08:01 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
ok, back to the topic, here it is in front of the monsoon. didnt get any daylight pictures.... its not going to be all bright like that on one side. im going to covere that side up, then put it into its own enclosure.
I definately plan to pick one of these up. Nice thing about it is that 8F and code59 have fuel monitoring in the code so it maybe possible to interface with its output signal from the 730 ecm.
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09:41 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
hmm, possibly. but i know nothing about programming.
EDIT to add: they come with a ugly green lcd screen. like the original gameboy, but this is backlit. still ugly. i found mine on ebay. a search term to be used is 16x2 lcd. or 16 x 2 lcd. then go through the resluts till you find ones that have multiple colors available to choose from. there will be a red one in there. more than likely also have a picture of all the color combos together. ------------------ First LX9 Fiero GT, 1987 If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem Fiero's are people too. We pay just as much attention to them, if not more than our loved ones My Fiero Fuel Economy Videos of My GT Google Videos of My GT
[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 01-22-2009).]
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09:42 PM
Jan 23rd, 2009
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
oh, the difference between the V1 board and the other board (its a V2.x board, not labled on the order page) is the V2.x has the USB and the RJ11 on opposite sides of eachother and the V2.x has the USB and RJ11 next to each other.
You know if you upgrade to the LED dashboard that will look perfect there behind the plexiglass.
You'll find that mpguino works good. I have one I built for my suzuki and will be building and installing one in the fiero. I'm going to switch out the GT pod gauges to the LED type and fit mine between them with some custom work so that it looks stock, well more stock.
I'm hoping to afford the full LED gauges by the end of this year.
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04:40 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
I was going to build one of those for my car until I got run off of cleanmpg.com for not being green enough. It is a back burner project for now. I will need to eventually need to get the calibration info for the 4-cylinder auto. I have added this thread to my favorites as well.
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12:03 AM
Feb 2nd, 2009
fieroluke Member
Posts: 357 From: Erlangen, Germany Registered: Mar 2001
I don't remember that you ever emailed me about the Power Window Controllers... I could only find an email from you regarding the use of DashScan with a different ECM ('7730?), and I wrote you a response on what would work (the trip computer stuff), and what wouldn't work (the scantool part obviously as well as the mileage display, since that's the same data stream)? I also wrote that the mileage may be somthing that I'll maybe adapt when I get the '7730 in my Fiero, but the Scantool part for the '7730 was probably not going to happen.
But that email is dated 29/1/09, and your posting was from 20/1/09... did you ever mail me about that before?
@tjm4fun: The DashScan mileage part works great, and while it can be calibrated, nobody has ever complained it was not accurate enough, on the contrary. The only problem with DashScan is the price of the special LED displays needed to fit into the odometer housing. That's also why I don't make them anymore, they're just too expensive (relatively speaking... people have no problem spending way more on a set of headers, but I guess if you get a large package, it justifies a bigger price tag... but I digress...)
Best regards,
Oliver Scholz
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
[This message has been edited by fieroluke (edited 02-02-2009).]
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11:50 AM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
it was a year or two ago i sent you the emails. been a lil while hehe i didnt get your response. they may have been going into my spam folder. whats the email they are coming from so i can check to see if its listed as spam or not.
i dont recall emailing you before about the dashscan. but i may have. no telling now.
I've started working on a Fiero-specific MPG monitor when gas prices reached an all time high here last year. The parameters were:
Display MPG and (optionally) outside temperature
Fit the unused hole above tach, no modification (drilling/cutting) of visible parts
Small board, only three (five) wires to connect: 12V, ground, ALDL-data, (optionally temperature sensor input and switch input to switch between MPG and temp)
lowest cost possible: avoid high-priced components where possible, only one 4 digit alphanumerical LED (with provision on board for a second one)
Use GM outside temperature sensor (same as MAT sensor)
US and metric version (mpg vs. l/100km)
So far I have built a prototype, I have the data stream decoded, and I can read the temperature, and I can switch back and forth between temp and mpg. What's missing is testing and possibly debugging that thing in the car: when my car broke down last fall, I was about to test my MPG monitor. Car's still down, and it's been too cold to fix it since. And with gas prices back down, the interest has dropped I guess (at least in the US).
Anyway, when I have something ready to reproduce, I'll post on PFF for sure.
------------------ Visit my website: www.fieros.de for lots of technical and other Fiero related information
[This message has been edited by fieroluke (edited 02-03-2009).]
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03:46 AM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
as you can tell, im still interesed in mpg displays. gas here in oklahoma is climbing back up. slowly.
is this going to be available for the different ECM's and PCM's used in motor swaps? i know the '7730 will be tricky since its used with so many motors.
initially "low cost MPG display" will be for the stock V6 (86-88) only, because that ECM is already equipped with a MPG output. And it's a three wire job, doesn't get easier than that. The 85 V6 ECM does not have the MPG output on the ALDL pin, but you can easily swap ECMs and use the newer ECM with the old engine. For some 85 vehicles a PROM patch may be required when using the newer ECM. But basically it's that simple.
I have not dug deeper into the '730, since haven't done the swap yet (car is still down -> lack of motivation). But the swap will render the mileage display of my DashScan inoperative, so I'll have to come up with a solution there. *IF* the '7730 can output the mileage info (I think it does though). When the swap is done and the mileage info is missing, that'll be motivation enough, because once you had that info on your car, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. I don't think the '730 is all that difficult, because I have found (when I quickly looked through the code) that the ECM not only can output the injector pulse width, but also a calibration value for the MPG display. I don't know if the "mask" Darth Fiero uses (pun intended) has that value adjusted for the Fiero though. (I'm talking about the ECM mask, not his helmet ;-)
Then, once I have the code to read and display the '730 mileage, I can try to incorporate that software into the mileage display, but it will make a board change necessary from today's point of view, I don't think it is software only. Reason being, the stock V6 outputs the MPG info on the ALDL all the time, while I *think* the '730 needs to be sent a request message.
So the line of action will be:
1.) Replace the damn water pump (something I'm not really looking forward to) [I know... closed metal impeller... 12 hour job... crate of beer...] 2.) Get the stock version of the MPG display done and out to a few testers 3.) Do the '730 swap on my V6 4.) Either have the car crushed if the swap fails, or try to persuade the '730 to divulge mileage info 5.) Make my DashScan compatible with the '730 (or make a completely new DashScan...) 6.) Make a '730 version of the MPG display, if there is sufficient interest.
Best regards,
Oliver
[This message has been edited by fieroluke (edited 02-04-2009).]
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04:04 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
The DashScan mileage part works great, and while it can be calibrated, nobody has ever complained it was not accurate enough ...
Oliver -
As you know, I have had a DashScan II in my Formula for more than five years now. In my experience, the instantaneous mileage display is interesting and useful but the "total fuel used" value calculated and displayed is only accurate to about +/- 15%. I have never been able to identify a pattern to the totalizer errors, which you would need to develop a fix, and I never considered it important enough to "complain." There are a couple of other intermittent glitches that are occasionally annoying, but overall I'm still a very satisfied DashScan II customer; I'd do it again.
- Marvin
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10:32 AM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
turbos and very bad tuning... may just tow it to Darth and tell him to make it work. But my dd Land Rover comes first, needs an engine 
but its a high number. in a really short time. haha. thats merlot and his half assing for ya! nah, most of it was not having access to the right info and learning the hard way. i think only 2 of these motors were paid for, rest have been free replacements. 
