I am starting to paint my Formula. This will be the first car that I've ever painted. I already took off the spoiler and painted it as a trial. Since the spoiler I have painted a couple of other things to help get a little bit of practice. Right now it has two coats of rollered on Rustoleum black, courtesy of the previous owner. The Rustoleum will be completely removed to start...actually I started sanding it off this evening.

The paint I am using is single stage Acrylic Urethane. I'll be doing black and a darkish lime green.
http://www.paintforcars.com/kitu_jetblack.html http://www.paintforcars.com/kitu_limegreen.html
I bought the paint not too long after I got the car and being completely new to paint I thought that it should be pretty good stuff for around $75 a gallon. Now I with that I would have know about SPI ( http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ ); If I had I would have gotten my paint from them. I have used some of their Epoxy primer on a different project and it seemed to be really nice stuff.... it sprayed better than the paint that I will be using... Oh well, I already have the paint so that is what I'll be using.
I'll be using an Astro EVO4014 LVLP spray gun to do the painting.

Here are some pics I took right before I washed it today. I should have taken them after I washed it.... no matter it'll be a lot better looking shortly..... I hope!




The questions I have are regarding body work. I took pictures of the areas that need attention and what I need help with is what products I should use to repair each place.

This spot I think the picture is pretty self explanatory.



Then there's this crack in the passenger side fender:


And then some surface cracking on the bumpers:



Could this be fixed with High Build 2K primer?

And the last thing I've noticed so far; a chip on the hood:


All help / suggestions / opinions wanted, welcome and appreciated.

Thanks guys,

Frank

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'88 Fiero Formula

ok first of let me tell you i'm an auto body tech. if i where you i would go to an auto supply stop and get the stuff call metal glaze. its like bondo but works great for plastic and fiberglass. first off i would you use 80 grit sand paper on a D A. sand it all the way down then use a coat metal glaze (putty). then use 120 grit to sand the putty down try to hold the sander flat as possible that way you do not leave high spots because the car is going to be lime green.

also i saw that you are going to use paint from paint for cars.com be carefully. make sure you sand every spot on the car. also remember take your time with the prep if you take your time it will come out great.

also this how i paint a car
do all the bondo and putty work in 80 grid
then sand in 120 and primer the whole car
then wet sand the car with 400 then spray the car with your car base and clear (but your using one stage so just spray it)
the best step use 800 grid and sand it again and then re clear the car.
and it will shine like a mother

Well the most important advice I can give if you are using a Urethane paint is listed in the products specs.
PRODUCT SAFETY INFORMATION:
Before using any Rayflex product, be sure to read all safety directions and warnings. WEAR PROPERLY FITTED AIR PURIFYING RESPIRATOR with organic vapor cartridges (NIOSH approved TC-23C) and particulate filter (NIOSH TC-84A), eye protection, gloves and protective clothing during application and until all vapors and spray mists are exhausted. In confined spaces, or in situations where continuous spray operations are typical, or if proper air purifying respirator fit is not possible, wear a positive- pressure, supplied air respirator (NIOSH TC-19). In all cases follow respirator manufacturer’s directions for respirator use. Do not permit anyone without protection in the painting area. Only professional, trained painters intend this product for industrial use. For more information CONSULT MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET.

[This message has been edited by AusFiero (edited 10-19-2008).]

Are Rayflex products really more dangerous than other paint brands?
I do have an MSA respirator (from Lowes); and I usually wear Harbor Freight Nitrile gloves ( http://www.harborfreight.co...taf?Itemnumber=37050 ).

To start with I am using an electric Porter-Cable random orbit sander with 220 sand paper; I figure that 220 is working to get the Rustoleum off and I don't want any larger scratches than I need, so that's what I'm using.

In this picture you can see the sander I'm using. This is what I got sanded on Saturday; on Sunday I got some more done on the front bumper and started on the passenger side.



For further clarification, I will be painting my car black with the mid section of the hood and deck lid being the lime green color. With the green I'll be trying to follow the indented mid section of the hood / deck lid.

Tonygk85, the car in your picture did turn out very shiny.

Thanks for the replies guys!

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'88 Fiero Formula

[This message has been edited by 725franky (edited 10-20-2008).]

The pics are too big so I didn't see them all.
On the bumpers you have to strip off ALL of the cracked paint, if you don't want it to come back.
On repairs you have to use the correct product for the type of material the part is made of. That's different for SMC fiberglass & the plastic the fenders & such are made from.
The doors, fenders, & 1/4 panels are RRIM. I think the rockers/ground effects are TPO, They may have a product that works on both. Grind (slowly so as not to melt) the back of the crack with 24 grit, 1" around it (at least). If you don't have a grinder then hand sand with 24 grit, but you'll need a grinder later. Mix the repair material with a little chopped (with scissors) fiberglass mat for strength, & apply to the area about 1/8" thick (minimum) behind the crack. Once that dries, grind out the front of the crack in a "V" & fill in with the same repair material. Mat is not needed but dosen't hurt. Finish as you would any body repair.
For the SMC (hoods & top peices) use "Vette panel adhesive/filler".
Edit: You should be using base/clear. Shoot the base black, layout the stripes & paint them, & clear the whole car. That way you don't have to sand the black before shooting the stripe, & you help eliminate the tape line. You can completely eliminate the tape line if you put enough clear coats on it (3 or 4 coats depending on the brand) & sand & buff.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Time is an illusion that serves purpose. - Edgar Casey

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 10-20-2008).]

Sorry about the large pics, I just wanted everyone to be able to get a good look at the problem areas.

Yeah, I didn't think about the line problem till I already had my single stage paint. Kinda late now.

Tha Driver do you have any particular repair products that you've used and would recommend? And thanks for the suggestions

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'88 Fiero Formula

[This message has been edited by 725franky (edited 10-20-2008).]

I tried disposable liners once last year. I thought it would be good since I do a lot of switching colors during the day in my shop. I found it cheaper to just clean out the gun between colors. The liners with lids were like $50 for 25 count. I can clean a lot with thinner for $50 I get thinner at $27 for 5 gallons. I really saw no benefit with them shooting upside down. I rarely ever need to do that. I can spray almost straight up with a regular HVLP gun with screw on lid.

quote Originally posted by 725franky: Tha Driver do you have any particular repair products that you've used and would recommend? And thanks for the suggestions

Evercoat part # 870 to fill (instead of bondo) fiberglass & SMC panels. It says on the can to use "SMC panel adhesive # 994 or #995 to bond SMC panels".
SEM 39337to bond SMC to SMC or SMC to metal (requires a fairly expensive gun).
SEM 39708 for "RIM, PUR, TPUR, and other flexable parts". I assume that also means RRIM. (RIM are the rubber bumpers, RRIM are the doors, fenders, & 1/4 panels).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Hey Leroy, what'cha doin' dragging that chain across the floor?
Leroy: "Ever tried pushing a chain?"

rogergarrison,
One particular area that I am thinking will be hard to paint without painting upside down would be the front bumper. Or am I supposed to remove the bumper to paint? Thanks for the info on the liners too. I paid like $15 for one gallon of Lacquer thinner though....sure wish I could get 5gal for around $30!

Tha Driver,
Thanks for the product #'s they will help a lot. I really like your quote too, it made me & my wife chuckle.

Well, I didn't manage to get any further on the sanding today because it was raining when I got home and it continued to rain all evening (don't have a garage to work in).

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'88 Fiero Formula

well that looks exactly like the paintjob on my car courtasy of the previous owner

IMO Rusoleum sucks as a car paint. I don't know about your car but on mine if I ran my finger nail across the Rustoleum paint job it would leave scratches in it. ...it's like that stuff never dries hard.

mine had alot of runs in it.

quote Originally posted by 725franky: I really like your quote too, it made me & my wife chuckle.

My father worked in a big Chrysler dealer as a transmission specialist. The incident with the chain actually happened & he said he nearly busted a gut laughing!

It's really a good idea to dissaseble the car as much as possible to paint everything. I usually paint everything off of the car except the roof sections. I HATE painting the coupe bumpers, even off of the car & on the rack that I made just for them.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

I'm with the bomb squad: if you see me running, try to keep up!

86stealthfiero,
Yeah, lots of runs lots of spots where there wasn't complete coverage a couple of spots where there were hairs in the paint (that was kind of weird).

Tha Driver,
I've not painted a car before but I have painted a couple of things and when I was looking at the bumper (front one especially) I figured that it would be quite a challenge to paint. Wish I had a GT bumper to put on it; since it would be a little easier to paint and IMO they're better looking.

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'88 Fiero Formula

I now have all of the easy stuff sanded...all the stuff I can easily get at with the electric sander. Now I need to start the hand sanding.

What kind of sanding block should I use for the surfaces that are too small and or to curved to get with the electric sander? Does the brand matter at all?

Also I've notice that on the front bumper (especially there anyway) the "molding" part has a lot of nicks, scratches, and pits in it; is it even worth trying to repair or just leave it? There's also Rustoleum down in those pit that I have no way to get out, will that hurt my paint or should it be OK?

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'88 Fiero Formula

On cars with low bumper, like Fiero, Corvettes, Ferrari, Porsche, etc is put them up in the air a bit on jackstands. Ez to get nose, tail and rockers that way. Hardest car to paint is XKE Jag. All 4 sides go underneath well over a foot. You have to put it up with wheels a foot of the ground to get it. Buffing it out underneath is out of the question unless you have a lift.

Another trick is to throw a length of old chain over some part like subframe and let it hang on the ground. This grounds the car from static electricy that can attract dust, dirt, hairs.

Yeah, I think I probably will put up on jack stands (or blocks) to make it easier to get at the bottoms of the bumpers and such. Thanks for the suggestions...the chain on sounds interesting.

Edit:


Another question: Is it going to mess anything up if I can't get ALL of the Rustoleum out of the seams and such (like between the notchback and the roof part?


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'88 Fiero Formula

[This message has been edited by 725franky (edited 10-24-2008).]

Id try to get all I could out. Fold sandpaper and run it back and forth as much as you can. I might not react in that small an area, but do your best.

quote Originally posted by 725franky: What kind of sanding block should I use for the surfaces that are too small and or to curved to get with the electric sander? Does the brand matter at all? Also I've notice that on the front bumper (especially there anyway) the "molding" part has a lot of nicks, scratches, and pits in it; is it even worth trying to repair or just leave it? There's also Rustoleum down in those pit that I have no way to get out, will that hurt my paint or should it be OK?

Foam sanding pad. Again: autobody supply. They make different densities, you'll want a medium & a soft one for the different curves. If you tear a peice of sandpaper in half, it will fold over the sponge pad on three sides.
Yes get out ALL the Rustolem. Can only cause problems with your paint lifting or flaking. Fold 180 wet to get down into the crevises.

I will try to get as much as I can out I'm sure there will be a little bit left though and I wondered if that would cause any problems. Thanks for the replies!

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'88 Fiero Formula

If you can get primer on it without reacting, paint will be fine. You can also try a wire brush in the seams. Just paint thinner on a rag and a thin putty knife might get it too. On Corvettes I sometimes put metal tape (furnace duct tape from hardware store) on both sides of the seam and use a small hand sandblaster. Dont get too carried away, it will eat the plastic too if you do it long enough.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-24-2008).]

Question in painting the bumpers. What is the best way to remove the paint from the bumpers. Mine are mostly in great shape with few cracks, and I would like to reduce the possibility of the newly painted bumpers from cracking. I am going to paint th car with PPG Single stage Urethane with the additive on the bumpers. What primer works best?

Thanks
Jim

quote Originally posted by bowrapennocks: Question in painting the bumpers. What is the best way to remove the paint from the bumpers. Mine are mostly in great shape with few cracks, and I would like to reduce the possibility of the newly painted bumpers from cracking. I am going to paint th car with PPG Single stage Urethane with the additive on the bumpers. What primer works best? Thanks Jim

You can get "Bumper Stripper" in a spray can if they have thick paint on them. If not just sand them. Make sure you sand out ALL the paint cracks.
Epoxy! I use PPG & for the bumpers you'll want 401 catalyst. You'll have to give it a 20 minite induction period before you shoot it, but it's the best most flexable primer for the bumpers. You should use it on the whole car BTW...

I ALWAYs sand them to bare urathane. Just a few hours time. Lisa did her own GT front bumper in 2 hours, whole thing from end to end completely bare with 180. Thats just the only way I do them. Guaranteed no problems in the future.

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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
Ferrari, Mercedes and Porsche Approved
____________________________________________
88 Corvette convertible
05 Dodge Magnum Hemi R/T
66 Dodge Killer Bee Coronet

What grit do you guys usually sand your primer with (I was thinking like 320)? Also can I just use the High Build 2K primer I have or do I *need* a base primer (like epoxy)?

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'88 Fiero Formula

An epoxy type primer is prob best. They do now make a special flexible primer, but never tried it. I use laquer primer most of the time except on high end customer cars. I do use laquer on my own. After I sand it, theres really not much of a thickness left. I sand with 400 if its a darker color and 360 most of the time. 320 might be pushing it a bit. A paint chemist from PPG told me that you should use a courser grade paper to sand gray primer than red or black. So that depends on what color primer you use. I WONT use gray myself, Ive had many problems with paint peeling off of it for many years, but then I always sanded it with same paper as the red. Never a problem with red oxide. I dont use black primer simply because its so nasty to sand. They do also have tintable primer that you can use under specific colors like blue, green, yellow etc. I wouldnt use a ' high build ' because its simply too thick. On a flexible part you have to make sure you use only enough for coverage whether its primer, paint or clear. Piling on thick or extra coats is asking for disaster.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-27-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 725franky: What grit do you guys usually sand your primer with (I was thinking like 320)? Also can I just use the High Build 2K primer I have or do I *need* a base primer (like epoxy)?

Prior to painting I use 400 wet. You shouldn't use the hi-build on the bumpers. Epoxy only (you can put on several coats if you *have* to, to fill imperfectrions). I always use epoxy as a base, so that everything sticks. If I need a hi-build, then that goes over the epoxy. After blocking (usually with 180 wet), I spray epoxy again, & sand that with 400 & paint.
Like I've said before: It's far too much work to take shortcuts - you DON'T want to do it TWICE.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

This is what the Formula looked like at the beginning of last night


Then I took the passenger side fender off:


And this is what I found on the back side of the fender:

They used some sort of mesh & resin to repair the crack. Now the question is do I just put filler on the front side, smooth it out and use it; or, do I need to somehow remove the repair and re-do it myself (so I can be sure it's right)?

What does everyone do to "repair" the "molding part of the bumper? There are a lot of scratches / gouges on it. Should I fill it or just leave it?

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'88 Fiero Formula

They make a plastic bondo type filler that I have been using on my trim pieces...

I am also repainting my 88coupe right now, I took nearly all the panels off as a bunch of my friends are working on it with me, so it makes it alot easier. Painting the front and rear will be easier off the car too.

I am going with a black epoxy primer, a high build urethane surfacer, and then going to use that black epoxy primer as a sealer. Going with a matrix/ppg strong black then a gallon and a half of MS20 high performance clearcoat. $480 at the paint store... Not bad, but not as cheap as lacquer.

Yeah, I kinda wish I had boughten BC/CC paint rather than SS. But, when I bought my paint I didn't know anything about paint or painting and I went for the cheaper / "easier" stuff.

Darkhorizon do you remember what product (brand and name) you are using for your trim filler?

Have someone to help with a project can make it a hundred times better (faster & more fun). ...I'm doing mine by myself.

Thanks,
Frank

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'88 Fiero Formula

[This message has been edited by 725franky (edited 10-31-2008).]

It was called "plastic repair kit" I think. Its made by evercoat.

found it on the web, here it is. I filled my antenne hole with it, although I havent looked at it yet, my teacher said it will turn out nice.

http://www.evercoat.com/productDetail.aspx?pID=182

I found it faily cheap, $20, will do enough for all the fieros you would want to paint.

http://www.handsontools.com...roi&site=google_base

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-31-2008).]

You say your using SS paint? Urethane I assume? I wouldn't worry too much about it. From what I understand its best to not use metalics in a SS paint (unless your experianced) because of cutting and buffing problems. Single stage urethane paint is basicly "colored" clear coat. If you take care of your paint it will last a long long time. As long as say.......BC/CC. I'm working on painting my 88 right now myself. http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ . Good site and very helpful.

Vinny

Single stage can be done very nice in base non metallic non pearl colors. The end result is not as "durable" and such as a BC/CC would be, but it will result in a nice paint job. I hear SS black is really neat because you can really increase the "depth" factor with it using a few techniques spraying it (and like a quart extra over what you would normally use.)

Darkhorizon,
Thanks for the links.

Vinny,
You are correct, I'm using Urethane SS from www.paintforcars.com ( http://www.paintforcars.com/kitu_jetblack.html & http://www.paintforcars.com/kitu_limegreen.html ) The fact that my paint came from such a cheap place (I know it's my own fault...I bought it) is part of what makes me worried about how it will turn out.
What model is the '88 your painting?

Thanks for the replies guys, I hope that your cars turn out awesome.

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'88 Fiero Formula

coupe, same thing as yours without a wing, single exhaust instead of dual, and no formula lettering.

I did my Mercedes SL in acrylic enamel. A month or two later, sanded and buffed it out and it looked like laquer. Slick and glossy as it could be. It looked beautiful for 10 years I owned it afterward, and guy who bought it still has it 10 more years later and its still gorgeous.

Yesterday I worked on the car a little bit more. I took off the driver side fender and the front bumper, to find that both have been repaired. The repairs don't make the parts not quite right. I'll try to get some pics today (if it stops raining) or tomorrow. So, it's kind of looking like I need new front bumper and fenders. ....this is something that I definitely wasn't planning on running into.

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'88 Fiero Formula

Notice the foam piece / support, where a plastic one should be:


The "repaired" driver side fender:


In this picture you can kind of see how the bumper wasn't glued tight enough


Inside repair area



I think I'm just going to get a new front bumper and fenders.

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'88 Fiero Formula

Hey are you guys wet sanding the primer before BC or dry?

I am beginning to prep my car, got an electric DA sanded and removed all the checking paint off my wing in 1/2 hour with 120 paper. I could not believe how easy that went. I want to be sure to prime that and the checked roof as well and get it as "right"as possible before I BC it.

Also I was told NO sanding on BC, unless you foul up.

sparx22