Has anyone split the case on a 4 spd to reseal the case halves? I have searched the threads and did not find one that dealt with splitting the case halves. Per the manual, it looks pretty straight forward. Appears to be a few "shims" on each of the 2 gear packs and the differential. I am thinking that as long as I am not installing new bearings, etc. it should go right back together with the new sealant. If anyone ahs any experience with this, your wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Pat
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08:03 PM
PFF
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Daredevil05 Member
Posts: 2345 From: South Jersey 08077 Registered: Oct 2006
I'll have to bookmark this topic so it doesn't get lost. I'm planning to do the same in the spring. Leaking at the seam on the bottom, no it's not the axle seals leaking. I would like to do it myself but if not I'll take it to a local shop to split the case and reseal back together. Drop me a pm when you get any info, please.
Dave
[This message has been edited by Daredevil05 (edited 09-01-2008).]
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08:10 PM
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
I am planning on doing this next weekend. I checked around here in El Paso and the trans shops want 250.00 to 500.00 to do this work. It does include rplacing the axle seals and the seals for the output shaft but I think I can buy all the seals for less than 30 bucks. Also thinking of getting a set of Rodney's bearing savers. I have torn apart muncie 4 spds and top loaders but these are a little different. I may end up having to get another trans if I screw this one up! I'll take lots of pics and keep you posted on my progress.
Pat
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08:17 PM
Daredevil05 Member
Posts: 2345 From: South Jersey 08077 Registered: Oct 2006
yes, it is VERY straight forward. the shims are for spaceing the bearings - if you are not changing anything, like bearings, bearing races, or gear shafts - no need to reset the shimming and - the shaft seals are readily available at Autozone for $5-6 a peice, and you need 3: 2 output shaft seals & 1 input shaft seal. any decent RTV will re-seal be LIGHT with the stuff and, there is one area for a "breather" - make sure sealant overflow doesnt clog it.
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09:01 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14226 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Anaerobic Gasket Replacement is the correct sealant.
Take out all the bolts & separate the halves. Scrape off all the old sealant and be sure the mating surface are clean. (you may want to go over them with wet fine grit sandpaper). Apply new sealant. Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
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01:04 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
hmpf...so was using RTV bad? what is the difference?
I don't know if it is bad or not, I have 1 extra 4 spd and a 5 spd that look like they have been done with RTV and the one in the car looks like RTV too! I will try and find the "special" stuff.
Pat
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05:29 PM
PFF
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katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
The manual states that during reassembly, you are supposed to use some sleeves and gauges to determine the shim size needed. I believe that it refers to a rebuild where new bearings and races, gears, etc. are installed. I have talked to a few people here on PFF and at a few trans shops here in town. Everyone thinks that to just reseal the case halves would not require the "shim" setup deal that is refered to in the manual.
So, tonight I split the cases and much to my surprize, there were no shims where I expected them to be. I'll have to go back and read the manual again. I was sure that I would find the shims on the ends of the output, gear pack and diff.
Huh, I think I just figured it out. The shims should be under each of the conical bearings! So, anyways, I split the cases and I think this trans has been rebuilt - aftermarket seals and the cases were sealed with RTV. Also, the trans is very clean inside. There is a little magnet in the bottom and there was nothing stuck to it. The oil was pretty clean too and before the motor went, it shifted very smooth and felt tight. Everything inside look real good too. I will pick up the "special" seal goop tomorrow along with the axle seals and output shaft seal.
This is the first "transaxle" I have ever opened up. I am amazed that these hold up under V8 abuse. The diff itself does not look like it would take much to wad it up into a ball.
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11:21 PM
Sep 3rd, 2008
Daredevil05 Member
Posts: 2345 From: South Jersey 08077 Registered: Oct 2006
Where on the case did you split the halves? What did you use to split the case? Post pics please. This is starting to be a good informational thread.
You get a + .
The case seperates from the "Bell Housing" side. Once the bolts are removed, it just takes a little persuasion with a rubber mallet around the outside and then you can lift the bell housing off. I'll have some more pics this afternoon after I get all the old sealer cleaned off and start the reassembly.
Pat
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11:02 AM
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
Well today I ran all over the Borderland trying to find the specified "anaerobic" sealant for the case halves. Finally found GM's replacement at a Chevy dealership on the West side of El Paso - 75 miles on the 88 Formula and 25.00 for the sealant.
Here's the sealant: It's spendy. It retails for 30.00 - the parts guy at Chevy thought that was hi so he gave me a discount - cost me 25.00 and 3 gallons of gas to find it. Splitting the case: Take out all but 2 bolts (across for one another) to keep the case halves from seperating while you turn it over (bell housing up): Once you turn it over - bell housing up, take the last 2 bolts out then you can work your way around the outside tapping on the bell housing half with a rubber mallet. Once you get a little seperation, you can take a razor knife and run it around the seam to cut the sealant: Lift while you wiggle the bell housing half: Clean and inspect. There is a small magnet located on the bottom side near the ring gear. It just "floats" in a pocket. Pull it out and clean all the metal off of it I had to order the input shaft seal so I could not put the trans back together today.
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06:07 PM
bmwguru Member
Posts: 4692 From: Howell, NJ USA Registered: Sep 2006
$300 to split the case and reseal it??? Sh*t, drop them off at my shop and I'll do it for $200...er...cash. I don't like the GM red sealant. I've used it in the past to reseal the Getrags and they always seem to have a seepage, but not leak per se. I use another type of sealant made by Mercedes for sealing aluminum parts like timing covers and never had one seep or leak yet. Dave
------------------ 1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (daily driver), 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner www.njautobahn.com
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06:17 PM
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
Care to share the Mercedes part number - sealant name? I want the best I can get - no leaks - no seapage. I can take this tube of GM stuff back and get the Mercedes stuff.
I agree, 300 is steep. Especially once I grew some hair and just did it myself. So far, its, been pretty sraight forward and easy. Only issue I can see maybe putting it back together - getting the shafst & bearings lined up, etc. Just waiting on seals now.
What's your opinion on the axle saver outer bearing setups that Rodney and the Fiero Store sell?
Thanks for your input - truly appreciated.
Pat
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06:26 PM
bmwguru Member
Posts: 4692 From: Howell, NJ USA Registered: Sep 2006
Care to share the Mercedes part number - sealant name? I want the best I can get - no leaks - no seapage. I can take this tube of GM stuff back and get the Mercedes stuff.
I agree, 300 is steep. Especially once I grew some hair and just did it myself. So far, its, been pretty sraight forward and easy. Only issue I can see maybe putting it back together - getting the shafst & bearings lined up, etc. Just waiting on seals now.
What's your opinion on the axle saver outer bearing setups that Rodney and the Fiero Store sell?
Thanks for your input - truly appreciated.
Pat
I'll look at the tube on Monday and get the number for you. It is about 30. and is really easy to work with. The stuff is like RTV, but a lot thicker (pastier)and easier to work with. The outer bearing supports work great...IMO. Dave
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06:33 PM
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
$300 to split the case and reseal it??? Sh*t, drop them off at my shop and I'll do it for $200...er...cash. I don't like the GM red sealant. I've used it in the past to reseal the Getrags and they always seem to have a seepage, but not leak per se. I use another type of sealant made by Mercedes for sealing aluminum parts like timing covers and never had one seep or leak yet. Dave
The GM product is just rebadged loctite 518. The dealership price is gouging in the extreme. McMaster-Carr has it (PN 75125A66) for $16.87 for a 50 ml tube. I've never had a problem with it sealing 282's or 4 speeds. I just scrape the surface to clean all the old gasket material, apply a 1/8" bead of the new sealant, and use my finger to spread the material out so it covers the whole mating surface. Muncies are cake to work on compared to 282's. They practically take themselves apart.
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07:57 AM
PFF
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Will Member
Posts: 14226 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by katatak: What's your opinion on the axle saver outer bearing setups that Rodney and the Fiero Store sell?
I had a set on my Northstar car and they galled the original sealing surface on my CV joint tulips. That surface probably isn't treated to be a bearing race.
Basically, if your transmission is in good shape, you don't need them. If your transmission isn't in good shape, they don't help.
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08:25 AM
bmwguru Member
Posts: 4692 From: Howell, NJ USA Registered: Sep 2006
My one tranny the bearings have play up and keep blowing out the axle seals. I didn't want to replace the bearins yet, so I took the easy way out and installed the Fiero Store bearings and the leak is gone and the axle feels supported with no play now. That isn't their function, but it is prolonging my tranny until I get the time to take it out to do the bearings. Dave
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09:08 AM
Sep 8th, 2008
Will Member
Posts: 14226 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
