well... I finally got my car good enough to go to the drag strip and get a few runs in... I was doing a lot of weight reduction and getting all the bugs worked out and I got it to the point where with slicks on the street I could pull the front wheels off the ground going into 2nd! anyways, after much anticipation I towed the car down to the strip with every tool imaginable to do almost anything to the car at the strip like change CV axles, or change fuel pumps, etc (iv been having troubles with the fuel pump). and on the FIRST run of the day I did a small burnout to clean off the tires, didn’t heat them up much at all, and pulled up to the line and I launched at 2500 RPM! The car didn’t move enough to turn off the staging light, it just jerked a little and oil came pouring out from under the car. I blew the differential out... there was chunks of gear laying on the drag strip, lol. The differential side tranny mount isn’t holding anything up besides a few pieces of housing that it is bolted to, the tranny split in half. soo... I’m in the market for a new tranny...

I have about $2000 to spend on the strongest tranny that I can get my hands on, does anyone know of any pure race trannys that I can get my hands on, or does anybody know if that one person that sells racing gears for getrags is still selling them?? any help would be much appreciated... I don’t care if its a 5-speed or 4-speed, I just need the strongest available because I AM going to be getting more HP out of this engine, and I need a bulletproof tranny, something that the CV axles will break before the tranny does again. If you could give me links to any tranny websites, no matter what the prices are.

I don’t have any pics now, but I will try and get a few this week... I don’t have a digi camera. I am open to any advice, opinions, or suggestions. Thanks guys.

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1986 Silver 5 speed Fiero 3.4 DOHC
Bored .30,Fully balanced and blueprinted
13.93@101mph as it is on the street

355/380hp sbc, 4 bolt main
spec stage 3, and many other extras.
87 GT 5-speed Getrag, power everything.

I suggest a built 4t65e-hd from zzperformance. Its an auto, but WILL hold the power. They have ran 9 second passes in grand prix's with these trannies, so I would be safe to say it could handle anything that motor could throw down naturally asperated.

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=150

I wouldnt see why you couldnt be able to get a core tranny for cheap, heck I know a few people here in michigan that have a few.

Also, might want to look into the caddie 4t80e.

Going to be quite a problem running this tranny without a stand alone controller, they are not cheap.
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/content-4.html

This will be a perfect drag setup, and WILL see faster times than any manual.

With $2K to spend you may want to look into the 6 speed swap, they are out their, I found one a few months ago for about $800
you have to call around the big cities or you can get a couple of four speeds which the consensus suggests is the strongest out of all of the Fiero manual transmissions. The automatic is a good option but I suspect you probably like shifting with the V8.

how much stronger are those 6-speeds, after i blew it at the strip another v8 fiero owner said NOT to get the 6-speed because there a generally weak tranny... there good for highway daily driving but not racing. thats what he said.

the specse in your sig are those current? What is your desired level of hp/tq?

I did the same thing to a Getrag, but I think it was due to high miles and abuse. Mine had over 200k miles and ~50 6000 RPM clutch side step launches. I plan on upgrading to the Quad 4 diff which has larger gears in the diff. I haven't heard of many people breaking other parts.

------------------
62 Buick Special
86 GT, 5-Speed
87 GT, 3.4l DOHC Turbo
88 Toyota Supra Turbo
95 BMW M3

Forget the ZZP transmission:

http://www.gm.com/company/gmtunersource/downloads/gmtunerhydra-matic_4T65_race_transmission.pdf

If a mostly bone stock 4T65E (Not even HD), with some modifications to stock parts and some GM Performance parts to finish the deal, can hold up a 1000+ BHP turbo Ecotec dragster through several races, then you have no worries.

Here is the email address of the person who had (has?) the Getrag racing parts:

todd@toddamelio.com

I'm going with the 4t65e hd. Got a brand new one from Morad Parts for $849, and a tranny controller from Ryan Hess. I think he sells it for $200 now. My engine is a N* and I have Petes turbo set up for a future project. As was said these trannys can be built to handle 1000 hp, but they give up fourth gear and the TC lockup. Morad has more of these trannys.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: the specse in your sig are those current? What is your desired level of hp/tq?

the specs in the sig are acurate, but i am planning on a few minor parts and dyno tuning to get it up to an even 400hp or so, then i am planning on nitrous to bring me up into the 500-550 hp range.

nomatter what i do to the engine, i just want a reliable bulletproof trany that i can just use and abuse and not worry to much about blowing it like this one.

edit: and one probably stupid questions, but when you say 4t65e HD, what does the HD stand for?? thanks

[This message has been edited by flames4me (edited 08-01-2006).]

the hd part is just a preformance package that gm added onto their 4t65e transmission when they hooked them up to the 3800 supercharged motors.

They only had different stall converters, usually different gear ratios, and a larger heavy duty differential, that requires a larger cv shaft. They are identical to regular 4t65e in every way except that.

I was under the impression that GM does not make those racing transmissions for sale. And I understand that zzp uses a majority of the parts in that transmission in the rebuild they do, while still maintaining a very streetable transmission.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I was under the impression that GM does not make those racing transmissions for sale. And I understand that zzp uses a majority of the parts in that transmission in the rebuild they do, while still maintaining a very streetable transmission.

They don't make the transmissions for sale, but there is a reason why GM put their part numbers in the Sport Compact Tuner Guide.

There are people who have built up 4T65e's with these GM performance parts.

[This message has been edited by LT-5Fiero (edited 08-01-2006).]

PM Sent, check out this thread;

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052661.html

The link in the previous posting is for Todd Amelio, whose email address I listed in an earlier posting. I hope this helps.

yes, everything is helping greatly, it is much appreciated, i am giving pos ratings to almost everyone who is posting. i will have pics of the dammage tomorrow (i dont have a digi camera, and i need to develop the film). thanks again guys.

I would recommend using a 4t65E-HD and a high stall converter 3000 to 3500 rpms with a tall ratio 3.69. Worked wonders for Don Kraus and it works great for me. Takes most of the shock out of dumping a clutch on a manual and will lift the front tires.
Take care. Bill

------------------
Recent additions to my collection
512-TR on a 7" 85 Fiero w/ 4.9L_NOS
Mera 88/Bob Bracey's/N*
Aldino, Don Kraus's/3800SCII
355 Berlinetta, Dave Held's/3800SCII
F40 Jr's/N*
IRM's IMSA/Quad 4

heres some pics that i promiced, there not the best quality, but i hope you get the picture.

here is one of just the major crack...


heres one of me trying to show that the tranny mount is totally separated from the rest of the tranny...


heres the last one that i got, i tryed to show the broked, rounded off gears that are still inside...

LOL

I heartily disagree. duct tape. that is the only way to fix that.
I applaud your effort. I blew a tranny and diff apart in one shot many years ago. I like someone who isn;t afraid to put the balls to the wall.....
good luck replacing it, I have no suggestions, I';m sorta done with blowing things up......
really
I mean it
nope
no more
I owe too much to the duct tape companies!

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 08-03-2006).]

hey, does anybody know any websites that show (or if you just know) the differances between the fiero getrags, and they new 2001 getrags? any info will help. thanks

looks like you busted the mounts and tranny hit the pavement ...seems more like you need to get stronger mounts too ..additionaly ..why in hell would you waste that kind of money just do make a fiero go down a STRAIT line ?? ...boooo hiiissss

noone has any getrag information? (bump)

The current Getrags and the 282 are COMPLETELY different designs.

I've seen that happen before. Chris Hahn broke his Getrag the same way. That sort of failure results from excessive END THRUST from the final drive gearset. The LEFT diff bearing takes most of the radial loading from drive torque. As you can see, that bearing is still where it's supposed to be. The RIGHT diff bearing takes a small amount of the radial loading and ALL of the axial loading that comes from the helix angle of the FD gears. This is the second failure I've seen in which the boss for the right bearing was pushed out of the case. That appears to be the 282's weak spot... the case isn't strong enough to take the end thrust from the helical FD gears at high power levels.

A modification to the V8 adapter plate to reinforce that side of the diff could help mitigate or prevent this sort of failure.

quote Originally posted by flames4me: noone has any getrag information? (bump)

http://www.fastfieros.com/NEW_manual_transmission_ratios.htm

Loyde

Why do you V8 guys seem surprised when you tear up a trans meant much less HP? Did you really think it would hold up? Thats the biggest drawback in my mind to putting a V8 in a Fiero, no cheep 4 or 5 spd trans with a posi rear around to take full advantge of all that power.

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: http://www.fastfieros.com/NEW_manual_transmission_ratios.htm Loyde

I seem to remember the 4rth gear on the 84s to be the opposite. .81 for the econo and .73 for the performance.

quote Originally posted by flames4me: how much stronger are those 6-speeds, after i blew it at the strip another v8 fiero owner said NOT to get the 6-speed because there a generally weak tranny... there good for highway daily driving but not racing. thats what he said.

That's interesting to hear about the 6 speed being a generally weak tranny and I'd certainly like to know more if that's the case because I could easily stop the 6 speed process and use my 5 spd. If the 200 lb/ft rating for the 5 spd is correct I don't know how the 6 spd could be weaker or how that could be established without a documented failure this early in its production unless The Saab 9-3 which it started out in around 04 had some trouble with it.

Here are transmission ratings for 07 down to 04, if you want additional automatic specs for previous years which are probably the same you'll have to start from the main pages and look for powertrain.

http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2007/07car.htm
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/2006/car%20eng%20trans.html
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/index.html
http://media.gm.com/division/2004_prodinfo/powertrain/manual/index.html

quote Originally posted by aa2uk: I would recommend using a 4t65E-HD and a high stall converter 3000 to 3500 rpms with a tall ratio 3.69. Worked wonders for Don Kraus and it works great for me. Takes most of the shock out of dumping a clutch on a manual and will lift the front tires. Take care. Bill

3.29 Gears might be better suited for his HP level.
The 3.69 gears might cause him to shift into 4th before the end of the track.
3.29 gears would let him reach the end of the track in 3rd.

This can be helpful http://www.f-body.org/gears/

[This message has been edited by tampalinc (edited 12-15-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Will: The current Getrags and the 282 are COMPLETELY different designs. I've seen that happen before. Chris Hahn broke his Getrag the same way. That sort of failure results from excessive END THRUST from the final drive gearset. The LEFT diff bearing takes most of the radial loading from drive torque. As you can see, that bearing is still where it's supposed to be. The RIGHT diff bearing takes a small amount of the radial loading and ALL of the axial loading that comes from the helix angle of the FD gears. This is the second failure I've seen in which the boss for the right bearing was pushed out of the case. That appears to be the 282's weak spot... the case isn't strong enough to take the end thrust from the helical FD gears at high power levels. A modification to the V8 adapter plate to reinforce that side of the diff could help mitigate or prevent this sort of failure.

has anyone looked into gusset'ing up the case some? like the 4-spds 4-cyl vs 6-cyl, only difference is some ribbing & gusseting. seems if you know where it is popping, we might be able to make a fix.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: has anyone looked into gusset'ing up the case some? like the 4-spds 4-cyl vs 6-cyl, only difference is some ribbing & gusseting. seems if you know where it is popping, we might be able to make a fix.

I've seen transmission case braces for Corvette transaxles. I guess they also have a habit of splitting open the diff case if they get shock loaded. It's definitely something to look into.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: has anyone looked into gusset'ing up the case some? like the 4-spds 4-cyl vs 6-cyl, only difference is some ribbing & gusseting. seems if you know where it is popping, we might be able to make a fix.

Yeah it would be easy enough to make a cradle for the transaxle to keep it from seperating. If someone wants to send me a good getrag for free, I'll make one for them. ;^D
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

You braggin' or complainin'?

For the second time, when I mentioned such a reinforcement effort of the sort discussed above hardly anyone said a word if any, now I see my thoughts are right in line with what others are thinking. I believe weld beads strategically placed on the inside of the case halves would produce the best results since the forces are from the inside out, and then a second reinforcement effort on the outside. The failure in the picture is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned welding on the case to strengthen it by filling in some of the boxes resulting from the rib lines.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: For the second time, when I mentioned such a reinforcement effort of the sort discussed above hardly anyone said a word if any, now I see my thoughts are right in line with what others are thinking. I believe weld beads strategically placed on the inside of the case halves would produce the best results since the forces are from the inside out, and then a second reinforcement effort on the outside. The failure in the picture is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned welding on the case to strengthen it by filling in some of the boxes resulting from the rib lines.

You intend to weld a thin aluminum case and expect it not to warp? Once your diff bearing race moves out of alignment you're screwed...
Also once you weld on aluminum you have to get it heat treated if you expect your welds (and the area around them) to be strong. The heat from welding anneals aluminum.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 12-15-2006).]

quote Originally posted by flames4me: how much stronger are those 6-speeds, after i blew it at the strip another v8 fiero owner said NOT to get the 6-speed because there a generally weak tranny... there good for highway daily driving but not racing. thats what he said.

Chris here and WCF has said the the 6 speed trans is weak too....thats why with caredul planning he choose the 5 speed nsx to go along with his 550+hp aurora turbo setup.

------------------

3800 Supercharged w/ some mods
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/344502
West Coast Fiero

[This message has been edited by Sleeper (edited 12-15-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Sleeper: Chris here and WCF has said the the 6 speed trans is weak too....thats why with caredul planning he choose the 5 speed nsx to go along with his 550+hp aurora turbo setup.

I don't think the durability of the 6-speed G6 transmission has ever been proven. The NSX transmission has been proven to hold up to a lot of power, and it requires as much work to install..

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: You intend to weld a thin aluminum case and expect it not to warp? Once your diff bearing race moves out of alignment you're screwed... Also once you weld on aluminum you have to get it heat treated if you expect your welds (and the area around them) to be strong. The heat from welding anneals aluminum.

Thought about those issues but didn't voice them because it's not something I care to do personally. Those with welding experience and knowledge there of should know those things as well as the limitations of such an approach and whether or not one can benefit from it in the end.

hmmm a good friend of mine who owns and runs a tranny shop just purchased a 6 speed and the only weakness he see's are the spider gears...but he is working on that with a slightly modded version of the cadillac spider gears to solve this problem..they will have to be made from scratch but that wont be a problem as he is good buddies with a local machine shop...stay patient..more to follow in the future...tim..

quote Originally posted by thismanyfieros: hmmm a good friend of mine who owns and runs a tranny shop just purchased a 6 speed and the only weakness he see's are the spider gears...but he is working on that with a slightly modded version of the cadillac spider gears to solve this problem..they will have to be made from scratch but that wont be a problem as he is good buddies with a local machine shop...stay patient..more to follow in the future...tim..

I don't think we'll know what the weakest link is until someone breaks them. Even if the spider gears look "small" that doesn't mean they're weak since it's possible GM actually made them with the right material and heat treat specs... but knowing GM, yeah right.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Thought about those issues but didn't voice them because it's not something I care to do personally. Those with welding experience and knowledge there of should know those things as well as the limitations of such an approach and whether or not one can benefit from it in the end.

Well it wouldn't be producing the best result if it destroys the case.. :-P

I think the solution that would provide the best result is a different right side case altogether. This obviously isn't all that practical. I think the best practical solution would be to use a FWD bellhousing half (I think it has a slightly different design around the right side diff bearing to accomodate the half shaft bolts, unless the Fiero already has this) and bolt a reinforcing cage through the half shaft bolt holes, some bellhousing bolts, and the motor mount plate.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 12-15-2006).]

flames4me,
Were your trans AND motor solid mounted? I've personally seen 3 Fiero getrags break similar this. All were V-8s with a solid motor mount and poly (or rubber) trans mounts. It seems to me like the solid motor mount coupled with trans mounts that allow for more movement, would cause high levels of torsional stress along the axis of the trans where most getrags seem to break. Coupling the torsional stress from dis-similar mounts and the internal stresses of a high torque launch sounds like the perfect trans destroyer to me.
But, if your motor and trans were both solid mounted then my theory is caca...
Scott