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Euro Spec V12 Fiero by ducattiman
Started on: 04-10-2004 01:03 PM
Replies: 145
Last post by: bmwguru on 12-06-2008 06:53 PM
ducattiman
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Report this Post04-10-2004 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
Wow i have finally have some thing to post that is interesting.


A few days ago i saw a ad from this guy that was selling a 1991 Bmw 750il 5.0L V12. Well the wheels started to turn and i bought it


Here r some pics of it


enjoy

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Posthumane
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Report this Post04-10-2004 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PosthumaneClick Here to visit Posthumane's HomePageClick Here to Email PosthumaneSend a Private Message to PosthumaneDirect Link to This Post
Is that the same motor that came in the 850i? maybe that's what he meant... Those engines are super smooth. I saw a video of one where they started it up, and then stood a coin on end on top of it, and it didn't fall over.

I'd have to say good luck fitting a v12 under the decklid of a fiero. Maybe you should find out what the dimentions of the motor are.

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BtotheB
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BtotheBClick Here to visit BtotheB's HomePageClick Here to Email BtotheBSend a Private Message to BtotheBDirect Link to This Post
Wow... if you could fit that in without going longitudinal, I'd be amazed. Good luck!

Brad

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Erik
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
Hmmmm ..that would be nice to modify to about 600hp and put into a Fiero ..er a I mean a Mc FieroLaren
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gt88norm
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gt88normSend a Private Message to gt88normDirect Link to This Post
look at the size of the accessories and pulleys and belts and stuff, looks like it might be do-able,
a logistics nightmare worthy of as much awe as one could conjur up. Let's see 5.0 / 12.0 =.417
roughly 400cc per cyl. i'd guess pistons the size of the little cans of V-8 juice. Does BMW make a
8 cyl version?
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NotAFieroAnyLonger
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotAFieroAnyLongerClick Here to Email NotAFieroAnyLongerSend a Private Message to NotAFieroAnyLongerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gt88norm:

look at the size of the accessories and pulleys and belts and stuff, looks like it might be do-able,

I agree!!
But, I think it would lood alot better if you went longitudinal...

------------------
aka."SmoothGT"
Custom Built W I D E B O D Y ~ GT!! One of One!!
3.4DOHC/5speed swap coming soon..(gathering part's now!)

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gt88norm
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gt88normSend a Private Message to gt88normDirect Link to This Post
Hey Ducattiman think of how it would sound w/ true 180* scavenging exhaust (yeah...... I know ...."dream on smart ass") talk about a nightmare
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crzyone
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Report this Post04-10-2004 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneDirect Link to This Post
60* V-12 cool

I'm sure the width would be fine, measure the length and then compare to a sbc.

What is the factory output on that motor? I think it would be cooler transverse with an isuzu 5 speed personally- if it would fit.

May have to move the fiero transmission over a couple inches and get some custome axels made but it would be one sweet project!

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ducattiman
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Report this Post04-10-2004 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
wow i have to thx u all for ur input and interest in my project


Postumane it is 1 of the engines that come in the 850 too but it is a 750il


BtotheB well it will work both ways long and lat but i am goning long way and twin turbo this sucker

gt88 the bore and stroke is 84x75


NOW BE READY TO BE AMAZED


WOW the flow of air of those intakes r great



gee no wonder euro engines make more hp then americian engines.pictures cant show how amazing the flow is..the air just flows straight in and smacks the intake valve prefect.


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ducattiman
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Report this Post04-10-2004 03:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post

ducattiman

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Member since Mar 2003

the bottom end is great sprayed 4 bolt mains,,just thinking how much power those things can hold

this is just a top view of the heads of and u can see the deep channel for the coolant


alum block and heads lol,,,see it is not that big as u all think. it feels roughly around 70lbs or so. i am only 5'5 tall and i am not busting my back holding it, as u can see my 1 foot is pointing up, not heavy at all try that with a v6 or 8 block


now the big upset is the crankshaft

i can not stress enuff,,that thing is a crazy boat anchor,when i first pulled it out i all most dropped it is so dam heavy,,thinking close to 140 or more lbs..i have to get so amazing machine work on it to drop the weight

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rmphoto
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Report this Post04-10-2004 04:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rmphotoSend a Private Message to rmphotoDirect Link to This Post
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post04-10-2004 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessClick Here to Email ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
Way to think 'outside the box'

------------------
Northstar 87 GT in progress... Who's got cheats for the learning curve? :eyebrow:

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G-Nasty
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Report this Post04-10-2004 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for G-NastyClick Here to visit G-Nasty's HomePageClick Here to Email G-NastySend a Private Message to G-NastyDirect Link to This Post
Ducatti's are great Italian bikes-
On the 12: It maybe too fat (wide to fit)
But with some creative welding and fitting-you would have a wild ride. Aluminum heads and block is the way to go bro. I was thinking that a 2.7 Twin Turbo DOHC acura engine and NSX gearbox would be radical but your euro engine would make the Fiero a clinified insaneV12 BEAST!!!
Good Luck man,
OUT>
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ShaddowGt
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Report this Post04-10-2004 06:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ShaddowGtClick Here to Email ShaddowGtSend a Private Message to ShaddowGtDirect Link to This Post
if he pulls this off, is that going to be the FIRST V12 fiero? siiiiiiiiiiiick

gonna make a kit? lol

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scrabblegod
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Report this Post04-10-2004 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for scrabblegodClick Here to Email scrabblegodSend a Private Message to scrabblegodDirect Link to This Post
This is interesting, as I have access to a Jag V-12, and just measured it yesterday.
It was 36" end of pulleys to end of block, 26" high (my 4.9 is 25"), 29" wide.
The Eldorado 325 transaxle is 10" deep and it is 11" from the bellhousing mating surface(back of the block) to the axle centerline.
I took a preliminary measurement of the Fiero engine compartment, and it will be a very tight fit if it goes in.
When I have my wife's motor out this week, I will get some some real dimensions. I also envision a pair of turbos.
If it will fit, I will do it instead of the 428 Pontiac. In the end it will be a whole lot cheaper.

Gene

------------------
87 Notchie 4.9
87 SE 3.4TDC swap in progress
87 Notchie Pontiac 428 longitudinal coming soon

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ducattiman
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Report this Post04-10-2004 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
gee i dont know what is worse a jag v-12 or a 428

both a very heavy weights,why i chose the bmw is it's (can be light) weight


it is only 2" wide,the 60' v12 is very skinny it is just the exhaust that makes it seem wide,,as for the length it is because of the pulleys ,if i stay with them it is only 3"longer then the 350,,,,really searching and doing the math and the set-up i want is like the ferrari f-40 but use a v12

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Flyguyeddy
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Report this Post04-10-2004 07:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FlyguyeddyClick Here to Email FlyguyeddySend a Private Message to FlyguyeddyDirect Link to This Post
what is the overall length of thsi engine? would it fit in the standard fiero arrangement?
i know it prolly dont, but just asking to clarify....
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Erik
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Report this Post04-10-2004 08:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ErikClick Here to Email ErikSend a Private Message to ErikDirect Link to This Post
that is one sweet motor , very well built, is the crank forged? ..imagine that in a longitudinal mount with a g50 behind it. I know the lambo kit guys have already done a swap like that. The Mc laren F1 uses a BMW v12

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 04-10-2004).]

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post04-10-2004 10:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessClick Here to Email ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ShaddowGt:
if he pulls this off, is that going to be the FIRST V12 fiero? siiiiiiiiiiiick
gonna make a kit? lol

No there's a guy running around with a bmw V12 powered kit car somewhere... Longitudinal mounted - not sure if it fit the other way or not...

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rockcrawl
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Report this Post04-10-2004 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rockcrawlClick Here to visit rockcrawl's HomePageClick Here to Email rockcrawlSend a Private Message to rockcrawlDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
there's a guy running around with a bmw V12 powered kit car somewhere... Longitudinal mounted - not sure if it fit the other way or not...

I'll take some pictures of it and post them this week. It's mated to a Getrag 5N longitudinal 5 speed. Come to the Carlisle show next month if you want to see it in person.

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gt88norm
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Report this Post04-10-2004 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gt88normSend a Private Message to gt88normDirect Link to This Post
Photos from the future huh? You got a DeLorean in that shed?
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Rocky64
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Report this Post04-10-2004 11:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rocky64Click Here to Email Rocky64Send a Private Message to Rocky64Direct Link to This Post
This is off on a bit of a tangent (sorry) but has anyone heard anything lately about the Cadillac Northstar V12. There was talk about it awhile back... Is it supposed to/did it ever go into regular production or was it just a concept, specialty or limited edition (100th anniversary) project?

General info about the Cien V12:
http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehicles/cadillac/cien/cien_features_tech.html

Comments about it and the Fiero:
http://www.fierofocus.com/articles/0102%20Northstar%20V12.htm

Has pic of the engine:
http://www.sae.org/automag/globalvehicles/10-2001/

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post04-11-2004 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessClick Here to Email ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rockcrawl:
I'll take some pictures of it and post them this week. It's mated to a Getrag 5N longitudinal 5 speed. Come to the Carlisle show next month if you want to see it in person.

Do I get to drive?

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jim123185
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Report this Post04-11-2004 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jim123185Click Here to Email jim123185Send a Private Message to jim123185Direct Link to This Post
Are those cylinder walls aluminum instead of a cast iron insert? They sure look like aluminum in those picutres.
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8Ball
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Report this Post04-11-2004 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 8BallClick Here to Email 8BallSend a Private Message to 8BallDirect Link to This Post
i saw the longitudal BMW v12 about a year ago, and got to thinking. So I did some checking around.
Those v12's can be gotten fairly cheap, as some of the cars they were in apparently had fire troubles. So you could find burnt ones pretty cheap.

When I asked about the swap on this forum, I was assured it will ONLY fit longitudally. I think the engine itself is too wide to go between the strut towers in our usual layout. But if you get this working, I wanna see it, because this is the swap I want to do. Not because the engine is some super powerhouse, but because I want a v12 And I like bmw motors. Expensive to fix, but when they work, they work nice

Good luck, and please keep us informed.

Randy

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8Ball
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Report this Post04-14-2004 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 8BallClick Here to Email 8BallSend a Private Message to 8BallDirect Link to This Post
By all means please do keep us informed of your findings.
As I said I would LOVE to shove in a v12, but I have only ever seen it done longitudally.
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85LAMB
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Report this Post04-14-2004 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85LAMBClick Here to Email 85LAMBSend a Private Message to 85LAMBDirect Link to This Post
I have to say that I am really exited and looking forward to seeing this build, please keep us posted and if possible take a lot of pictures. This is going to be awsome

You should check out "lambolounge.com" go to the engine section or in the "v12" eng, so you can see what a beatifull job someone did with that eng. The guy made it look like a work of art.

What tranny are you planing on using ?

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ducattiman
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Report this Post04-15-2004 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
Eh all,sorry i have been alittle busy latey with work and other stuff,,


the block has no liners in it,it is etched with nicasil coating,,,the crankshaft and con rods r forgued

nothing really has happened,,i did take the block,and some covers to the machine shop to get cleaned and blueprinted

Latey i have been working at home looking up info.Email companys,asking for them to make some custom parts,matching turbo charts,,designing my exhaust headers,thinking of what colour paints to use for the parts..basically all the paper work(yeah yeah that stuff has to get done too)


The trans i am looking at is the 325 and the 325-4 ,,just reading the Road and Track on the vector and its 3 speed engine rpm@60mph in 3rd gear is only 1955(hmm seems good)

i really dont want a 1/4 mile car but more of the top end rocket

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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post04-15-2004 02:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageClick Here to Email MinnGreenGTSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85LAMB:

You should check out "lambolounge.com" go to the engine section or in the "v12" eng, so you can see what a beatifull job someone did with that eng. The guy made it look like a work of art.

Dang... that rocks! http://www.lambolounge.com/Chassis/Engine/BMW-V12/BMW.asp

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88 Formula
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Report this Post04-15-2004 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 FormulaClick Here to Email 88 FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 FormulaDirect Link to This Post
750 and 850 BMW would be same engine, first character in BMW nomenclature signifies body style i.e.
3 Series (small BMW)
5 Series (medium size)
6 Series (Coupe based on 5 series)
7 Series (large size)
8 Series (coupe based on 7 series)

second and third characters denote nominal engine displacement i.e. a 330 is a 3 Series (small) BMW with a 3.0L engine
750 and 850 both have 5.0L engine

BMW typically share engines between series, i.e. the big engine in the 3 Series is the small engine in the 5 Series and the big engine in the 5 Series is the small engine in the 7 Series

I don't know the HP on the 5.0L but I recall the 4.0L V8 was about 290HP

------------------
88 Formula, T-Tops, 3.2 V6 being assembled for reinstallation

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FieroMonkey
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Report this Post04-15-2004 08:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroMonkeyClick Here to Email FieroMonkeySend a Private Message to FieroMonkeyDirect Link to This Post
wow. that is one serious engine my friend! kudos to you for your adventures spirit and vision. i cant WAIT to see this thing powering your car!

------------------
-Monkey

9 Fieros....help

[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 04-15-2004).]

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doublec4
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Report this Post04-15-2004 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for doublec4Click Here to Email doublec4Send a Private Message to doublec4Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:


Dang... that rocks! http://www.lambolounge.com/Chassis/Engine/BMW-V12/BMW.asp

That is one sexy engine

------------------
1986 Fiero SE

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85LAMB
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Report this Post04-15-2004 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85LAMBClick Here to Email 85LAMBSend a Private Message to 85LAMBDirect Link to This Post
MinnGreenGT
Thank you for posting the link

ducattiman
What car does the 325 tranny comes in?

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Tugboat
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Report this Post04-16-2004 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
Awesome motor!!

But it does remind me of why I like rotary engines:

And with the right turbo setup that's good for 800 HP!!

GL

[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 04-16-2004).]

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Fieroswede
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Report this Post04-16-2004 10:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroswedeSend a Private Message to FieroswedeDirect Link to This Post
This engine produces 300hp for those of you who wanted to know.
The 4l V8 produces 286hp.
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Hedhunta
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Report this Post04-16-2004 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HedhuntaClick Here to Email HedhuntaSend a Private Message to HedhuntaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tugboat:

Awesome motor!!

But it does remind me of why I like rotary engines:

And with the right turbo setup that's good for 800 HP!!

GL


just curious.. are there any fieros w/ rotary engines in them? if not is that possible.. i think itd be neat to have a rotary engined fiero if itd fit & work..

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Liquid-Reality
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Report this Post04-16-2004 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Liquid-RealityClick Here to Email Liquid-RealitySend a Private Message to Liquid-RealityDirect Link to This Post
wow that is amazing!!!
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Tugboat
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Report this Post04-16-2004 01:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hedhunta:
just curious.. are there any fieros w/ rotary engines in them? if not is that possible.. i think itd be neat to have a rotary engined fiero if itd fit & work..

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

But yeah, I'm working on it along with umpteen other things. It doesn't have anywhere near top priority at this point. I'm not sure if it will fit longitudinally with a VW tranny, it might require firewall mods. The stock tranny setup (a 4.10 muncie would be excellent) puts a tri-pot where the exhaust needs to be. Rotary exhaust is very hot and can't be restricted if you want power. You can't turn the engine due to oil drainback issues. But you might be able to rotate the trans. I'm not sure if this would cause hood clearance problems, high CG, tranny lube or other issues yet. I haven't even looked at TH 325s, I want to start out N/A (should be around 200 HP with street porting) and need some serious gearing (& a high stall converter) for that. Plus, unless you reversed it, most of the engine (the eccentric shaft is 16" long) and all of the tranny would be behind the axle. But someday I hope to do it, one way or another.

GL

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Fie Ro
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Report this Post04-16-2004 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fie RoClick Here to visit Fie Ro's HomePageClick Here to Email Fie RoSend a Private Message to Fie RoDirect Link to This Post
That V12 is wicked! I would like to have a sneek peek when you fit it in the fiero.

I am looking to do a 3800SC swap, but I am also looking for a nice (european) alternative...audi V8's and the Lexus 4.3 V8 seem nice engines but it would be over my head to do such a swap........Btw I met a BMW850 while driving to work today...next time I will smile at it

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ducattiman
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Report this Post04-16-2004 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ducattimanClick Here to Email ducattimanSend a Private Message to ducattimanDirect Link to This Post
Eh fie Ro.. and trust me i will u first peek at it,apeldoorn is not that far from u..


Since all the people i know r tech people and no one is a body man

and u seem to be top of ur gain can u make or draft a custom trunk for me some thing along the lines of a f-40 hatch to my fiero so i can show off the 12

THX

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