Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  IM SOOO HAPPY, and dissapointed

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


IM SOOO HAPPY, and dissapointed by My84
Started on: 05-09-2008 11:44 PM
Replies: 17
Last post by: My84 on 05-14-2008 12:20 PM
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-09-2008 11:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
So yesterday i found out i have a bad starter, I put the new one in to day @ about 7:30 pm cranked it over to prime oil pump ( couldnt figure how to prime ) then i put gas in it cranked it about 6 times with adjusting distributor and adding gas into the intake and it finally started and stayed running. only to find out 1/2 hour later it was getting really hot and almost over heating, gatta check fan to see if it work ( didnt hear it click on) then work my back checking thermostat and TSU ( Temperature Sending Unit's ) has 2 right? on head and in thermostat housing? well im just happy i got it running for the first time, i was given the car about 4-6 years ago didnt run then, sat for 10 years with cracked cyl head caused from over heating. so i should start at fan and work my way back in the order i mentioned? now after that i gatta finish the brake system, replacing the front 2 with new and i rebuild the rear 2, gonna turn my rotors and call it good and take for test drive.
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
merlot566jka
Member
Posts: 675
From: Norman, Oklahoma
Registered: Jun 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for merlot566jkaClick Here to Email merlot566jkaSend a Private Message to merlot566jkaDirect Link to This Post
woah, jumble post!

first tell us year and engine, otherwise we can only ofer generic advice

for cooling, you should make sure there is no air in the system. bleed it a few times

Did you replace the water pump? you probably should have, considering that it over heated.

check senders function, and verify the guages work properly.

the fans use a fan switch to turn them on, if there is air surrounding the fan switch, then you can guess that the fan isnt going to come on.

most important, make sure the coolant is circulating, there is no air in the system, and that the senders and switches are working.

i know your user name is my 84....but doesnt say if it has the duke or some other swap.
IP: Logged
FieroBrad87
Member
Posts: 743
From: Nevada, Iowa, United States
Registered: Dec 2005


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 03:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroBrad87Click Here to Email FieroBrad87Send a Private Message to FieroBrad87Direct Link to This Post
So this is a new engine? Remember that new engines are tight and they will run hot until broke in sometimes. Also a Fiero will heat way up just sitting still and most (or all) temp switches don't turn the fan on until 235 degrees.
IP: Logged
maryjane
Member
Posts: 65972
From: Cleveland Texas
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 06:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
1. There are actually 3 temperature related devices on your engine. One operates the temp gage. One sends data to your ecm. The other is a switch that energizes your radiator fan relay. That's where you want to start. It is located on the exhaust side of the cylinder head- near #1 spark plug---points right at the driver's seat. A little difficult to see with the air cleaner snorkel in place. It just grounds the circuit when temp reaches about 238 deg F. Locate the switch, pull the wire off of it, and ground the terminal. If the relay and fan are good, it should tuen on the fan. On your car, there are probably 2 wires on that switch, since most 84s have a 2 speed fan--thus a switch with 2 sets of contacts and 2 wires. One contact turns the fan on at 238 deg for low speed operation, the other contact turns the fan on high--at a higher temperature. The fan relay is located right under your driver's side headlight--kinda hard to see without raising the light. The system gets low speed fan operation by using a big resistor which is located on the fan support brace. The resistor drops the voltage to the fan and it runs at a slower rpm. For high speed operation, the relay uses a different set of contacts, and sends full battery voltage straight to the fan motor--bypassing the resistor. You can test everythng pretty easily with a test light, except the resistor. I think the resistor is about 70K ohm.
Turning your Air Conditioner on will also energize the fan relay. AC doesn't actually have to work--just the a/c switch. The ac switch just takes the place of the temp switch on the eng----grounding the coil inside the relay to complete the circuit. There is primary power to the relay all the time--fed by fusible link--it is just the secondary control circuit (switch circuit) that uses "key on/run" power.

Edit:
I think someone else already said it, but remember--our cars will run hot if left at idle for long periods of time, unless EVERYTHING in your cooling system is perfect--and few are afer 20+ years. It is not advisable to leave one running and unattended for very long. The fan on my 84 works, and it has a new radiator, and I still won't let it run at idle unattended.

The relay--there are several relays in that general area. The one you are looking for is about 3-4" long--as opposed to the usual 1 1/2-2" long relay for the later years with a single speed fan. That relay is located in a bad place--and the cover let rain water in.

You might want to look at this thread:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/042326.html

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-10-2008).]

IP: Logged
maryjane
Member
Posts: 65972
From: Cleveland Texas
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
I have added in a manual operated fan switch if you wish to bypass the fan switch. The diagram does not show the 2 speed circuit or resistor.


[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-10-2008).]

IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 08:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
 
quote

first tell us year and engine, otherwise we can only ofer generic advice

for cooling, you should make sure there is no air in the system. bleed it a few times

Did you replace the water pump? you probably should have, considering that it over heated.


its an 84 with 2.5, and no i didnt replace the watter pump but it works.
IP: Logged
Dennis LaGrua
Member
Posts: 13575
From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A.
Registered: May 2000


Feedback score:    (13)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 321
Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 08:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
Did you set the timing properly using the proper procedure (by connecting the correct two pins on the ALDL connector together) before setting the timing position? If so then move on to do the proper coolant fill procedure. Then drive the car for a short while and see if any codes set. If you are still running very hot (over 200-*F) then you'll need to do a scan and further checks.

------------------
87GT - with 3800SC Series III engine, 4T65eHD
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

IP: Logged
omnivec
Member
Posts: 31
From: ca
Registered: Sep 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for omnivecClick Here to visit omnivec's HomePageClick Here to Email omnivecSend a Private Message to omnivecDirect Link to This Post
Usually once a engine overheats it gets easier to overheat every time. A bad head to me equals a rebuild.
IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-10-2008 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
well i just finished rebuilding it, i had the head maged b4 i put it together, my fan is verry dusty and still is dusty so thats why im starting at fan then checking sensors cuz i put new sensors in ( cuz i destroyed the old one on old head to have it hot tanked and maged, found out it was cracked, then replaced ) so im sure the sensors are still good. i noticed alot of rust inside thermo housing so i think thermostat is rusted but not sure gonna check in some boiling watter. possible air bubble ( dosnt make noise. dose it make noise when theres an air bubble in coolant lines?) going to go test fan now.
IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2008 08:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
well i pulled the fan off and tested it. next im gonna start it and look to see if it kicks on. if not i was gonna pull fan switch sensor and see what it looks like. it probly has rust on it. would that cause it to not work right? the reason i think there is rust on it is because the gasket at the front of the block wasnt sealing when i started to fill it. so i use silicone gasket maker and sealed it up but didnt fill it up after it dried so i filled it up the other day and noticed rust on thermostat and in the thermostat housing. my tempiture sending unit is good cuz it was reading on my temp gage. any ideas? just start with relay and fan switch? thanks Steve
IP: Logged
$Rich$
Member
Posts: 14574
From: Sioux Falls SD
Registered: Dec 2002


Feedback score:    (20)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 396
Rate this member

Report this Post05-11-2008 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for $Rich$Click Here to Email $Rich$Send a Private Message to $Rich$Direct Link to This Post
since your kinda new here, tell us what you did for the fill and burp procedure on the car

just to make sure you did it correct

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-12-2008 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
lol thats a new term ( fill and burp ) but i filled the radiator and then the thermostat housing and overflow tank. squezed the hoses from under the car in the back then the hose up front that i can reach and herd a little slushing in radiator and added more then started it up. i checked it today and was low again, i checked over flow tank and filled it. pulled the thermostat and and ran it w/o thermostat and fan kicked on and only got to 220 1/2 way on temp gauge. made me fill better.

so now on timing it says it needs to be 8 before and i can get just under 16 and it runs rough. but i have it @ about 20 before and purrs like a kitty, so im kinda confused, any thoughts on that? is there suppose to be a certain way to do that or just using a standard timing light and turning the distributor work?

Thanks Steven
IP: Logged
maryjane
Member
Posts: 65972
From: Cleveland Texas
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post05-12-2008 02:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
Yes, there is a very specific way to fill the coolant system and to time the engine. Failing to follow either is a lesson in futility. You filled the coolant system in reverse order, and if you did not place the ecm into diagnostic mode, you now have your distributor way out of time. Follow this link, and read everything you can in The Ogres cave.
http://www.fiero.nl/ogre

Read this one and bookmark it (timing procedure) :
http://fierodomain.com/content/view/175/100/

Read this and be real sure you understand it before filling coolant system:
http://fierodomain.com/content/view/260/100/

Add this one to your favorites list:
http://fierodomain.com/content/category/8/37/100/

With the key off, remove the bezel around the cig lighter. Behind it, you will see a rectangular shaped electrical connector. This is the aldl connector. You must use a jumper wire to connect 2 terminals together. The A & B terminals. bottom 2 on the passenger's side. This will put the system into diagnostic mode.If you do not do this, you will never get the dist timed correctly. Start the engine, and let it warm up a little. The factory manual says to put take a reading using 1st #1 plug wire as a reference. then # 4. add the 2 together and average them. For instance, if you get 12 deg btdc on #1 and 15 deg btdc on #2, your average is 13.5deg BTDC. Move your distributor accordingly to obtain whatever the veci label calls for. Lock the distributor down and check it again.
While you have the aldl jumped, turn the eng off. Wait a couple of minutes, then turn the key to 'on' but do not start the eng. Watch the check engine light. It will flash. 1 flash means 1, 2 flashes means 2 etc etc. It will pause between flashes. flash flash flash flash pause flash flash means code 42. It will repeat whatever code is stored in the ecm 3 times, then go to the next stored code.
But, the very 1st thing you should do, is go to the top of this page, and click on The Ogres Cave, and read everything in it. It will tell you all about this, and the proper way to fill your coolant system.

Be sure you remove the jumper from the aldl before driving the car.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-12-2008).]

IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-13-2008 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
thanks MJ for the post, thanks those links help alot.
IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-13-2008 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post

My84

221 posts
Member since May 2008
ok here is a question i would like to ask, i cant afford a new AC compressor that runs me 157.33 for refurbished, so here is a pic, hope it works.



hope that shows up. dose it show up?
IP: Logged
maryjane
Member
Posts: 65972
From: Cleveland Texas
Registered: Apr 2001


Feedback score: (4)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 442
Rate this member

Report this Post05-13-2008 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
I don't know of any reason why you couldn't helicoil it, as long as there is clearance between the 'o'ring grooves for drilling the oversize holes needed for the helicoil. Be sure to cover the bores while drilling to keep the chips out of the system.

------------------
84 SE Auto-Jane's (sale pending)
84 SE 4 spd-mine
88 4 cyl-ours
Indy-all mine!!
'08 Silverado-Jane stole it from me!!

IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-14-2008 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post
well i got the fiero out on the rode and test drove it for the first time, i used ATF for temp tranny fluid gonna put some Royal Purple Syncromax in it. but b4 i do that is it easy to replace the out shaft seal on those? mine is leaking from both sides and it looks like a rear main leak so im double sad and pissed off. but im happy that i drove it around the block, so no one ever mentions in any post that i read that its such a pain to steer and low speeds. DAMN YOU RACK N PINION. lol so anyways anyone have a thought as to of how i can fix those 2 problems i just might say i love you ( only if it works ) jk. so anyways im gonna register it tomorrow and take it into town if i feel its safe to drive while leaking. well anything will help me.

Thanks in advance, Steven
IP: Logged
My84
Member
Posts: 221
From: Billings, Mt
Registered: May 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-14-2008 12:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for My84Click Here to visit My84's HomePageSend a Private Message to My84Direct Link to This Post

My84

221 posts
Member since May 2008
well my fan works, i think i had a bad thermostat. so now how do i remove the CV shaft? i need to replace my out shaft seals cuz they are leaking or should i run and additive to soften them up? its been sitting for about 15 years w/o the CV's moving. i have a set that didnt cost me much i just dont want to take time and replace them. i want to drive it
IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock