Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  anyone ever relocate the solenoid on a 4.9 starter?

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


anyone ever relocate the solenoid on a 4.9 starter? by wiccantoy
Started on: 04-09-2008 05:08 PM
Replies: 32
Last post by: wiccantoy on 06-04-2008 10:33 PM
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-09-2008 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ok the starter is still getting heat soaked on my 4.9l starter. anyone ever relocate the solenoid connected to the starter? anyone have pics on how they did it? etc....

------------------

DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

86 gt 350 4 speed
85 t-top BEING PARTED
86gt 4.9 highly modified
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

[This message has been edited by wiccantoy (edited 05-31-2008).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Frizlefrak
Member
Posts: 2921
From: El Paso, Texas
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score: (5)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 72
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2008 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrizlefrakClick Here to Email FrizlefrakSend a Private Message to FrizlefrakDirect Link to This Post
I didn't relocate it, but I did wrap my starter with heat shield. Solved my heat soak issue.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2008 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Frizlefrak:

I didn't relocate it, but I did wrap my starter with heat shield. Solved my heat soak issue.


i have also done that and it didnt help. grrrrrrrrrr
IP: Logged
gunslinger
Member
Posts: 352
From: southland pines,fl
Registered: Mar 2008


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2008 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gunslingerSend a Private Message to gunslingerDirect Link to This Post
Why not use a Ford type solenoid and wire it to the starter , that will work and you will not have that problem again.

http://www.google.com/imgre...olenoid%2Bdiagram&sa =X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1

[This message has been edited by gunslinger (edited 04-10-2008).]

IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-10-2008 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gunslinger:

Why not use a Ford type solenoid and wire it to the starter , that will work and you will not have that problem again.


not 100% sure how to do that
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-11-2008 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ttt
IP: Logged
Fieroking
Member
Posts: 2126
From: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
Registered: Jun 2002


Feedback score:    (11)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 78
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2008 11:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierokingClick Here to visit Fieroking's HomePageClick Here to Email FierokingSend a Private Message to FierokingDirect Link to This Post
The solenoid on the 4.9 starter is physically connected to the starter gear. When you engages the solenoid it pushes the gear out to engage the starter ring on the flywheel or flex plate which then turns the engine over to start it. The Ford system uses a bendix type starter which works by spinning the starter motor which uses centrifugal force to pull the starter gear into the starter ring. I can see no way to remote the solenoid on the GM style starters. You could Google starters which should give you a better explanation on how the 2 different types of starters work.

Joe Sokol

------------------
85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC build underway
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ok well i dont know what else to do than .....
IP: Logged
Mickey_Moose
Member
Posts: 7288
From: Edmonton, AB, Canada
Registered: May 2001


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 142
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 12:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wiccantoy:

ok well i dont know what else to do than .....


...heat shield??

Not sure what else to say, never had that problem...

Edit: just saw this near the bottom of the page, http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/024804-35.html Archie installing a 6 speed on jscott1's car - he used a starter with the solenoid is on the side vs original - perhapes this starter setup could work for you - have no ideal of what he is using, just saw the picture.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 04-13-2008).]

IP: Logged
Fieroseverywhere
Member
Posts: 4242
From: Gresham, Oregon USA
Registered: Mar 2006


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
I was thinking along the same lines as Mickey. If the wrap wasn't enough I would think that building some heat shields would be the only option left. You could probably make something pretty easy that would bolt the the lower exhaust manifold bolts. Adding a additional cooling fan may be another option though space would be my concern there. Or if you haven't already you could wrap your exhuast manifold to lower the temp around the starter. There has got to be a way. If you come up with something keep us posted. Good luck.

EDIT: I was checking out the thread with the starter Mickey was talking about and noticed the stock caddy heat shield that goes near the starter. Do you have one of these? Might be a good start and I'm sure I have an extra if you need it.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-13-2008).]

IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 01:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
i plan to get a 5.5" fan and mount that under there. and may look into making a heat shroud also
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
fieroguru
Member
Posts: 11277
From: Champaign, IL
Registered: Aug 2003


Feedback score:    (45)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 255
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
Are you sure it is a heat soak issue? Too much timing or poor battery cables can have the same symptoms... On my 4.5 I had the muffler where the stock cat converter was and never had any hot starting issues.

I used Deville manifolds with a y-pipe but if you are using the manifolds that dump down, you could easily make a heat shield (open up a piece of exhaust pipe and weld on a coupled of tabs) that bolts to the exhaust flange and wraps the back side of the exhaust (towards the starter).
IP: Logged
Fieroseverywhere
Member
Posts: 4242
From: Gresham, Oregon USA
Registered: Mar 2006


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
I just thought of one other option that may be the simplest one. Why not bolt a small metal plate to the cradle to direct some airflow up towards the starter. Just something to scoop up some air and cool the starter. This could easily take the place of a fan and would be much easier to do. Having the fan temps lowered would keep everything cooler also or a lower temp thermostat. Just tossing out ideas.

IP: Logged
gunslinger
Member
Posts: 352
From: southland pines,fl
Registered: Mar 2008


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 03:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gunslingerSend a Private Message to gunslingerDirect Link to This Post
The above reference link will work I have done this all the time to different vehicles , if you are not capable to do it get an auto electrician to wire it in for you
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gunslinger:

The above reference link will work I have done this all the time to different vehicles , if you are not capable to do it get an auto electrician to wire it in for you


the reference offered can be seen. but to figure out which of the starters are used and the correct amount of shims and placement of the jig shall be the trick. it is a pain in the but to have to have another flywheel made due to being imaptient. looks like i have a bit more to look into now. lol , it never ands. i guess i shall start with a heat shield and a fan. and if nothing else works i will just have a bit more reading to do. now if i could only find those reading glass's i lost a few years back.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ok i have a email into bubbajoe. hopefully he is still on from time to time. thank you all so far. im itching to drive my car a little father than a few miles from home. its a pain in the but to have issues with the starter
IP: Logged
SERGE144
Member
Posts: 153
From: Venice, FL
Registered: Nov 2002


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2008 08:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SERGE144Click Here to Email SERGE144Send a Private Message to SERGE144Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gunslinger:

Why not use a Ford type solenoid and wire it to the starter , that will work and you will not have that problem again.

[URL=http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/FordSolenoid.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/solenoid.htm&h=80&w=140&sz=30&tbnid=5grqcV0xi2wJ:&tbnh=80&tbnw=140&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dford%2Btype%2Bstarter%2Bsolenoid%2Bdiagr am&sa]http://www.google.com/imgre...olenoid%2Bdiagram&sa[/URL] =X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=1



The ford solenoid works well for heat soak issuses, no need for fancy or expensive changes. Just read the article entirely.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-14-2008 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SERGE144:


The ford solenoid works well for heat soak issuses, no need for fancy or expensive changes. Just read the article entirely.

NICE i will be doing this in the next few days. thank you very much
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-16-2008 08:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by SERGE144:


The ford solenoid works well for heat soak issuses, no need for fancy or expensive changes. Just read the article entirely.


ok this DOES NOT work dont try it.

------------------

DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

86 gt 350 4 speed
85 t-top BEING PARTED
86gt 4.9 highly modified
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

IP: Logged
Fieroseverywhere
Member
Posts: 4242
From: Gresham, Oregon USA
Registered: Mar 2006


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post04-16-2008 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by wiccantoy:


ok this DOES NOT work dont try it.



Any details on why it didn't work? Just curious.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post04-16-2008 08:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
no i did what it says to do and it starts like it should . but when i left it sit and get to warmer temps after like 5 minutes . i shut it down , and it wont start back up. no matter im out 40 bucks , no big deal. it sounded like a good idea, but oh well
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post05-19-2008 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ok update .......... ive added a heat shield from jegs.com and i added a fan under there. now im at a loss for words. not sure what else to try . still gettign heat soaked

------------------

DONE: 86gt 5 speed 4.9 complete rebuild with buds outback northstar pistons , delta cams E303 cam , full ported , polished , stronger head springs, and flow tested heads and manifolds. rockcrawl's custom chip , polished crank . too much to list

86 gt 350 4 speed
85 t-top BEING PARTED
86gt 4.9 highly modified
86 and 87 fiero database www.geocities.com/cwandall/fiero.html

IP: Logged
arte444
Member
Posts: 1510
From: Mankato, MN
Registered: Sep 2002


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 151
Rate this member

Report this Post05-19-2008 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arte444Click Here to Email arte444Send a Private Message to arte444Direct Link to This Post
I bought a new one and it fixed my problem. no heat sheilds or anything

------------------
-Kyle
Email: kakagiraffe@gmail.com
Aim: Littlechugger
1988 Notchback 4.9 V8, 5spd Isuzu, Spec Stage 4
True Dual Exhaust, Delta Cam
1993 Ford Probe 2.slow 5spd
1996 Grand Am 3100
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i

IP: Logged
fourpoint9
Member
Posts: 1045
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2004


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-19-2008 06:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fourpoint9Click Here to Email fourpoint9Send a Private Message to fourpoint9Direct Link to This Post
I bought a new starter, (you do need to buy a new starter) added a Cool-It Thermo Tech Starter Heat Shield Wrap THT 14150



and added a Moroso Standard GM Starter Heatshield MOR-74300



No problems now.

I attached the wrap and the shield using the wrap's straps
IP: Logged
v8fiero400
Member
Posts: 963
From: Houston,TX,USA
Registered: Jan 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-20-2008 12:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for v8fiero400Click Here to visit v8fiero400's HomePageClick Here to Email v8fiero400Send a Private Message to v8fiero400Direct Link to This Post
..... or get an Allante gear reduction starter. Smaller, lighter.... and I have yet to have problems with it.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post05-20-2008 05:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fourpoint9:

I bought a new starter, (you do need to buy a new starter) added a Cool-It Thermo Tech Starter Heat Shield Wrap THT 14150



and added a Moroso Standard GM Starter Heatshield MOR-74300



No problems now.
....

I attached the wrap and the shield using the wrap's straps


i did the wrap already but it just seemed to be like a blanket for the starter holding the heat in. i also got the same heat shield you showed. plus the fan ......................

[This message has been edited by wiccantoy (edited 05-20-2008).]

IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post05-31-2008 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
OK Update things done so far

1. heat wrap the starter (took of since that didnt help)
2. placed 10" fan infront of the starter
3. purchased a heat shield from jegs
4. purchased new starter
5. purchased a new battery
6. did the relocate that was posted up in a further reply on this page.

im ready to sell the damn car, ive got 20k invested in the damn thing and cant enjoy it . it was fine when the 4.9 engine was stock. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[This message has been edited by wiccantoy (edited 05-31-2008).]

IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post06-01-2008 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
ok went today to order a allante starter. hopefully this will work before i burn the car
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2008 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
allante starter did the trick. woooooooohooooooooooo
IP: Logged
gunslinger
Member
Posts: 352
From: southland pines,fl
Registered: Mar 2008


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2008 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gunslingerSend a Private Message to gunslingerDirect Link to This Post
You can still burn it
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2008 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by gunslinger:

You can still burn it


naaaaahhh sorry not now
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Fieroseverywhere
Member
Posts: 4242
From: Gresham, Oregon USA
Registered: Mar 2006


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 89
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2008 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
You can at least burn the tires.
IP: Logged
wiccantoy
Member
Posts: 3372
From: northwales , pa / Williamstown nj
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (9)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 90
Rate this member

Report this Post06-04-2008 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wiccantoyClick Here to Email wiccantoySend a Private Message to wiccantoyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:

You can at least burn the tires.


there are plans to burn the tires all the time
IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock