ok i have a turbo kit for my 2.8 v6 bone stock fiero i bought on here a while back and now its time to get to work on it.....my turbo kit has a te04 turbo i was to ld by manny this wont put out anything for boost and that my wastegate actuator wouldnt kick on untill 25 lbs? not sure what any of this means and i was also told i need bigger injectors

here are my questions:
whats a safe range of boost that wont put tons o wear on the motor as this will be a daily driver?(i want enough boost that i can get up an go fairly good and not wear out my motor fast and still have fairly decent gas mileage)
will the turbo work for for the range of boost?
what injectors will i need? what kinds of cars can i get a set off of used?
will the wastegate actuator work for the amount of boost range i want to be in?







IMG]https://images.fiero.nl/pffimages3/acd27D.jpg[/IMG]

Assorted chrome covers...how do these go on?


where and how should i hook this up...i kinda want it some where ezily acessable in the passanger compartment...is this possible?


Spark plugs, injectors and PROMs what are these injectors? i want to use but i broke one and i need to know where i can get another and are they going to be good enuf?


do i need it?
EGR valve and pipe


what other Mitsubishi turbos utilize same mounting that are bigger? and what car can i find one on?
And the exhaust tubing and flanges

It didnt come with a 2 bar MAP sensor?

I suppose one of those chips would work, but why are there 3 of them? I think thats because none of them are actually tuned right, that all of them have different driveability issues - so having 3 choices will let you determine what you want to live with, and what you dont.

This is all just a guess though, you wont know anything until you put them in and see what happens.

Yes, stock injectors will work with the stock ECM. You will want an FMU if you decide to go this route. PM me about it as I have a brand new Vortech 12:1 FMU.

Also, I wouldnt worry about upgrading the turbo just yet. Get everything in and working, then go from there.

I don't now how much boost that turbo will put out.
Your wastegate is adjustable, even more with your boost controller. Yes it can be mounted inside, look up boost controller in google and see how to run the lines for it.
The chrome covers are turbo heat sheilds.
For the injectors, there should be a number stamped into the side, you can look them up that way.
EGR is needed IF the chip supports it, and with the mounting for it on the crossover pipe I would think you would.
For what other Mitsubishi turbos fit, you will have to looking into other websites/forums dealing with Mitsubishi turbos.
As far as the different chips, you might want to find someone who can read them and see what the differences are.
I would NOT use stock injectors as they won't flow enough safely without going static. Odds are if thoose injectors are bigger then the chip(s) should be set for the injectors size. If the chip is done right you can put in the bigger injectors, 2BAR MAP(if the chip supports it), and the chip without the turbo and it should run the same as it does now. Then you can add the turbo. Hope this helps


AKA Sardonyx247

quote Originally posted by LAS VEGAS FIERO CLUB: I would NOT use stock injectors as they won't flow enough safely without going static.

Ive been running them at 10psi boost pressure for many years now, and they flow fine. I have the IRM kit which was designed to use them as well, you cant knock what has been proven to work

I do agree that they are small tho, and probably run a very high duty cycle. If I were to program my own chip, or make my own kit, I would definitely use bigger, ~ 24lb injectors. I suggest stock injectors and FMU for him right now just to decrease driveability issues. When your installing any new system on your car, its hard to pin-point problems that come up because so many things have been added. Just try to keep it simple at first.

Just my $.02

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 03-22-2008).]

quote Originally posted by AutoTech: It didnt come with a 2 bar MAP sensor? I suppose one of those chips would work, but why are there 3 of them? I think thats because none of them are actually tuned right, that all of them have different driveability issues - so having 3 choices will let you determine what you want to live with, and what you dont.

Heres what i was told about the chips and what they say on them:
chip 1 the blank chip) im guessing this one is some where around 5% rich
chip 2 (gabe?):5% lean
chip 3 (gabe?):base chip?

if this makes any sence....anyone in flint got a thing you can hook a prom to ur comp...i have no knowledge about proms, injectors, or turbos lol

quote Originally posted by AutoTech: Yes, stock injectors will work with the stock ECM. You will want an FMU if you decide to go this route. PM me about it as I have a brand new Vortech 12:1 FMU.

i was told you need like 18-20 lb injectors instead of the stock 15lb other wise ill starve for fuel running over 6lbs of boost....... so i need diff ecm for larger injectors!?! whats a fmu?

quote Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: chip 1 the blank chip) im guessing this one is some where around 5% rich chip 2 (gabe?):5% lean chip 3 (gabe?):base chip?

I think the blank chip is just what it seems, its blank. No information written on it. The base chip seems like it would be the stock chip, and I have no idea why you would want a lean chip. Maybe someone else will chime in with a better understanding.

quote Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: i was told you need like 18-20 lb injectors instead of the stock 15lb other wise ill starve for fuel running over 6lbs of boost....... so i need diff ecm for larger injectors!?! whats a fmu?

Like I said, the stock injectors have been proven to work at up to 10psi. Will you need bigger injectors for more boost? Yes, but that requires a new chip burned.

An FMU (Fuel Management Unit) is a secondary fuel pressure regulator mounted in series on the return line, and works through boost pressure. Under vaccum (normal driving) conditions, the FMU will do nothing, and let the fuel return to the tank without interupting flow. Under boost conditions, it will raise the fuel pressure accordingly, at a ratio that is governed.

Example - a 12:1 FMU raises fuel pressure 12 psi for every 1lb of boost. So, at 6lbs of boost, you will have 72lbs of fuel pressure. Adding more fuel pressure will add, you guessed it, more fuel.

quote Originally posted by AutoTech: An FMU (Fuel Management Unit) is a secondary fuel pressure regulator mounted in series on the return line, and works through boost pressure. Under vaccum (normal driving) conditions, the FMU will do nothing, and let the fuel return to the tank without interupting flow. Under boost conditions, it will raise the fuel pressure accordingly, at a ratio that is governed. Example - a 12:1 FMU raises fuel pressure 12 psi for every 1lb of boost. So, at 6lbs of boost, you will have 72lbs of fuel pressure. Adding more fuel pressure will add, you guessed it, more fuel.

ok so i wouldnt need a higher performance fuel pump with a fmu? anyways what does one look like i may have one as i have a box full of lines fittings and lines with electrical hookups on them that all came with my turbo....
.i have this one thing that i have no idea what it is some sort of electronic shut off with a in and out that look to thread into the stock fuel line then another feed that is smaller could this be a home made version that would close the line when u flip a switch?


here is a pic of it and pics of my broken injector





the silver one is the broken one

quote Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: ok so i wouldnt need a higher performance fuel pump with a fmu?

Not necessarily, as your still needing the same amount of flow. I would put in a bigger pump eventually.

I cannot tell you what lb injectors those are. If I were to guess, they would be the 19lb 5.0l Mustang injectors, but I really have no idea. Same thing with that "homemade" thingamobober you got there. Looks like sone kind of adjustable regulator, but I havent got a clue

I can only imagine that one of the chips will work with your new injectors, but the only way to find out is by doing it. Makes me wonder tho, if they burned these chips for a turbo application and bigger injectors, why wouldnt they also program it for a 2 BAR MAP? I assume if it was programed that the MAP would have come with your "kit".

This isn't what you want to do or be told to do i know, but if I were you, I would put that turbo "kit" down and run.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: This isn't what you want to do or be told to do i know, but if I were you, I would put that turbo "kit" down and run.

why?

You say you have a bone stock 2.8, in what condition? Is the bottom end in perfect shape, it has to be if you it it live more one run. I not go any higher than 12lbs boost with a stock engine. I have forged pistons and lots of other work and dont want to go much over 12lbs. I know lots of folks do, but I like to keep my engines in one piece. Funny thing about having boost, it's real hard to keep your foot out of it. Are going to imploy a blow off? I've seen some really nice turbo kits for Fieros, sorry to say but that one don't look like any of them.

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Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

quote Originally posted by Francis T: I've seen some really nice turbo kits for Fieros, sorry to say but that one don't look like any of them.

ROTFLMMFAO!!!!!!!

Im sorry man, but that was TOO funny

as i said my motor stock and basically an original fiero low miles motor all i have done was put new gaskets oil pump valves and rockers
all im looking for is a little get up and go nothing major im weary on runing 10 lbs of boost on this motor as i wont be pulling this car apart again for an engine swap again in a looooooooooooong time and if i blow the motor the car will sit untill i feel like another long and expensive fight and pita....i will do a northstar swap some day long down the road after ive gone through school.... but for now i want to squeeze a little bit more power out of a 21 year old motor

stock 2.8 is ok to me i had a 92 s10 2.8 it had alot of torque and take off but above 60 it was a long and slow climb to 100mph which i hoped a turbo could help with

You'll be alright man. That turbo will give you your 8psi just fine.

Be careful tho, once you get boost, you'll always want more

ok ive found that they are 19 lb injectors for 1983-96 ford 5.0 liter mustang and crown vic

[This message has been edited by DEMONCHILD (edited 03-22-2008).]

Ah, too bad, I just sold a new set on ebay last week. Ironically, they were for my engine, but were too big

So what have you figured out, whats the plans?

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 03-22-2008).]

i guess ill try what ive got for now im still a little confused as to if i need a better fuel pump or a fmu

quote Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: here is a pic of it and pics of my broken injector

That appears to be an aftermarket oil pressure sending unit. That fitting looks about right for the oil supply line but not sure why it's on a T fitting. Did you get an oil pressure gauge with the kit?

Michael Valinder might be a good resource on turbos. He posted here fairly recently. PM him, or ask in his "turbo questions" thread.

quote Originally posted by Hudini: The stock fuel pump will be fine for the small amount of boost you want if the injectors are big enough. The FMU is another way of delivering higher pressure to the injectors without chip tuning so you force more fuel out of them. Depending on who you talk with, an FMU is either an easy way to deliver more fuel under boost or a crude caveman approach to avoid proper chip tuning. Personally, I would not touch those injectors or proms without having them thoroughly checked out. You could fry your engine pretty quick if they are not up to snuff.

Exactly.

This is why I brought up the FMU. Get everything working nicely with it, and start having a chip burned in the meantime. Once you know the engine runs fine with the FMU, most problems you come across you will know are associated with the tune of the chip, and you can always go back to what works until you find the problem.

Having a chip burned is not a quick, simple and easy task. You will have multiple chips burned before you get one just right, and even then it can still be improved upon on a dyno. Mind you, it will take a week or more before you get each chip too, so it can take a little while as well.

Is a chip better? Yes, but sometimes its not the best choice right away when "building" a homemade turbo kit.

This is all opinion, I like to keep things simple at first, and modify what I know works. Others may think differently, and thats what makes for good conversation. You would be suprised on how much you can learn by "opening up" to other peoples views.

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 03-22-2008).]

I would run away from a turbo 2.8 also... but whatever.

To do this right, your going to want a wideband, a chip burner, a nice www.treperformance.com fuel pump, a nice set of 3800 or LS1 injectors IMO....

Anything short of that will leave the door open for a blown motor due to lean conditions, and driveablity problems. The FMU is just not a reliably way to lock in a consistent air/fuel ratio.

ive got some mustang 19lb or corvette 24# injectors for sale...$50 a set...pm me

i wouldnt use stock injectors.

my personal opinion, i would use that kit on my engine if you paid me to. the turbo as been welded on, the brakets have some shady welds to them, the down pipe looks sketchy as well. 3 chips? that should be a sign of something! no map with the kid...??? how are you going to tell the ecm your under boost? id sell that stuff to some guy with a civic and buy stuff thats not all hacked up. im not basing this on making a show car, im basing this on the fact that i doubt you want to tear up your car and realize you paid to destroy your engine.

Useing a FMU without a chip will kill your engine. You to have something to take out timing when in boost or it will be a very short lived engine. Detanation will happen and eat pistons and/or rings. Now you could use it to run way rich as running rich slows down the burn and kinda compensates for timing. But this is the worst and crudest way to do it. If you want to flow test the injectors, fierosails has home built flow tester plans, and it works, to clean them use injector cleaner and pump it through useing the flow tester. I would really get thoose chips checked out or get a new one. You want it programed for a 2BAR map, boost, and for the injector size that you have.

But the biggest thing you should do is learn everything you can about turbos. It is better to spend a month researching and learning than many more rebuilding an engine.

(AKA Sardonyx247)

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The FMU is just not a reliably way to lock in a consistent air/fuel ratio.

Which is why I will not even talk about them in my Turbo for dummies thread. They are the only real choice for non computer carb setups, but they are unreliable at best.

I hope that turbo kit was really cheap. Like $200.00 cheap or less. because it looks like it is not only incomplete but completely worn out. A welded turbo usually means trouble.

I strongly reccomend tuning that turbo back down to 5-6 psi and stay there. a "low miles" fiero is a 20+ year old engine and also depends on your definition of low miles. I call low miles under 30,000.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The FMU is just not a reliably way to lock in a consistent air/fuel ratio.

The stock rising rate fuel pressure regulator used in many cars, including the Fiero, seems to be quiet reliable. Dont you agree? An FMU is the same thing, except that the rise rate ratio is higher. Your definition of reliable must be different than GM's

Dont get me wrong here, a chip is the best option, but there are other ways around it in the meantime.

Also, I dont know why you would suggest a wideband. It is great for tuning, definitely, but thats it. The ECM doesnt even read the O2 signal as it runs strictly off of tables at WOT. A good dyno tune shop should have a wideband to plug in to watch A/F while tuning, but to go out of your way to permanently install one isnt necessary, and costly.

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 03-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by AutoTech: The stock rising rate fuel pressure regulator used in many cars, including the Fiero, seems to be quiet reliable. Dont you agree? An FMU is the same thing, except that the rise rate ratio is higher. Your definition of reliable must be different than GM's Dont get me wrong here, a chip is the best option, but there are other ways around it in the meantime. Also, I dont know why you would suggest a wideband. It is great for tuning, definitely, but thats it. The ECM doesnt even read the O2 signal as it runs strictly off of tables at WOT. A good dyno tune shop should have a wideband to plug in to watch A/F while tuning, but to go out of your way to permanently install one isnt necessary, and costly.

is a FMU consistant? yes it is, and it works. BUT GM uses their regulators to help idle the injectors, and provide a bit more fuel at low vac or boost areas, not to compltely regulate all fueling at wot.

Example, on a normal day depending on temperature, my LTFT's can lock at anything from %3 positive, to %3 negitive, so that leaves a 6% sway in fueling that goes unnoticed by the FMU. I suppose you could go open loop 24/7, but there is your driveability problem, and then you are still not correctly compensating for the pressure increase. There comes a time on every motor where higher boost does not really mean more air.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: BUT GM uses their regulators to help idle the injectors, and provide a bit more fuel at low vac or boost areas, not to compltely regulate all fueling at wot.

Yep, thats why a good tune is better

Hey, did we just agree on something !?