Hello everyone! It's neat to finally post in here. I've been checking the forums off and on over the past 10 years since I first got my Fiero. I've never registered here or felt comfortable posting before because (A) my car has been sitting for the past 10 years (only driven for about 6 months), (B) I haven't had the means to do anything with it, (C) I'm not a mechanic and know almost nothing about how to work on cars. Now before everyone runs me off (hehe), let me at least introduce myself and my car.

Me:
My real name is James. I'm 32 years old, married, and have a daughter. This past October I started my own business. Since I was 15, before I had my first car, it's always been my dream to own a real sports car. Firebird, Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, something! But it's never happened. I have a '99 Cougar which is kind of like a sports car, but not quite.

While I can barely change a tire, and have never changed my own oil (I plan to learn how!), I can do almost anything and everything with computers, networks, and various other high tech things. That and music are my two biggest talents. Although I don't work much with heavy tools and grease covered metal parts, I'm fairly mechanically inclined. I'm good at mechanical theory, but a total newbie when it comes to actually doing the work. So I hire people.

My Car:
Black 1986 Fiero 2m4, 4Cyl, 5-speed manual.

I got this car from my dad for my 22nd birthday back in 1997. It had been rescued from a junk yard... why it was in a junk yard, I don't know, I think it just needed a clutch. That had been replaced. Of course its time in the junk yard was not kind to it, as some of the emblems were missing, the back deck rack was (is) missing, the trunk lock has been removed, the stock wheels were gone, replaced with aftermarket ones, and it barely ran. But it ran well enough for us to drive it across the road. My dad paid $950 for it. We put some work into it, replaced the 02 sensor, tried to fix the headlight motors, and did a few other minor things to it. I drove it for about 6 months or so, but then the engine started puffing white smoke just a little, so I parked it.

The Project:
Okay, so fast forward 10 years to the present. By now the car has had its side windows shot out, one of the tires is flat. The scope of this project is basically a restoration as well as modernizing the whole thing. By the time I'm done this car will look a lot like a 1985 GT or a 1988 Formula, but with several modern and custom touches. I'm putting lightweight wheels on it, I plan to replace the suspension and brakes with lightweight parts, and I plan on enhancing the side vent and making it a functional intake scoop. I'm also adding keyless entry, power windows, a custom stereo/speaker setup, and a bunch of other things. The first priority, however, is to get it roadworthy again and I've decided to do an engine swap in order to accomplish that.

I got some credit from equity on my house, and now I'm able to really get going with this poor car. The first step was to figure out what type of conversion I wanted to do. The 2.2 4Cyl Ecotec looks totally awesome, and it would allow me to (somewhat legitimately) still call this car a 2m4. I also considered rebuilding my current engine, as well as trying to find a Quad 4 or Super Duty 4 to put in there. None of the 4Cyl swaps sounded very appealing though because I was finding almost no information or success stories from people who had actually pulled it off. I understand there are at least 1 or 2 successful Ecotec conversions out there on the road somewhere, and supposedly the Quad 4 used to be a fairly common conversion but I couldn't find hardly any information on it. The Super Duty 4 would be a no brainer considering it's basically an Iron Duke done right, but finding those engines for any reasonable price seems next to impossible.

Tossing out 4Cyl options for this project, I decided on the 3800 Series II Naturally Aspirated (L36) for a nice balance between power and fuel economy. I also don't want to overload my Isuzu transmission with too much power, and I'm not planning on racing. I want this car to be my daily driver, and just keep my Cougar as a spare or if I need back seats for something. After several phone calls and following leads, and referrals of referrals, I've finally circled back around to the same shop that replaced my Cougar's transmission 2 years ago. Turns out they have a guy there who does engine swaps on all kinds of vehicles on a fairly routine basis. I thought I knew a thing or two about what this project was going to entail, but this guy blew me away with his knowledge.

I already had a salvage yard in mind where I was going to look for the engine, so I called them and they had one out of a 1998 Lumina with 105k miles on it. It's a lot of miles, but being a 3.8L V6 and the type of car it's coming out of (family sedan), I suspect it'll be okay for a while. It has 185 compression and 65 oil pressure (whatever that means). I guess it's good, but it's cheap at $650 with all the trimmings (including the wiring harness).

I called FRSport and ordered some 5Zigen FN01RC 17" x 8" 35mm offset, 5x100 bolt pattern. I hope I got the right kind! I like them because they're fairly inexpensive ($196 each), and they're the lightest wheels I could find. I decided on brushed silver. I called a local tire shop and ordered some 17" tires, making sure they'd fit the rims. I called a local glass company to get my side windows replaced. Then I called West Coast Fiero and got a flywheel, front engine mount bracket, and headers with Y pipe. I'm told that's all I'll need, although my mechanic really wanted me to get a new pressure plate. I decided to take my chances on that one though.

Now I'm just waiting on everything to arrive. I'm not sure where I'm going to stage anything. Basically the mechanic doesn't want to get started until I have all the parts in hand. Unfortunately the wheels won' t be in until the 2nd week of April, but the engine swap will probably still be underway at that time anyhow.

When I figure out how, I'll post a few "before" pictures of what it looks like now. I'm also going to put this on my blog with pictures there too.

Anyhow, nice to meet everyone, and wish me luck! Nobody seems to care about the 2m4 but I'm determined to make this one a really really sweet ride to keep for life and pass down to my kids.

the L36 seems like the perfect motor for your project, good luck!

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Losing sight of our roots in the cathode rays.



Ultimate 3800 swap thread

You gotta put up some pics so we can see the dramatic before/after! Notchies rule!


Are you coming up to MI for the 25th?

Haha, I really am such a newb! I've watched tons of Youtube videos and stuff listening to various engines people have been putting into Fieros, but I just went back and listened to a few more and WOW, those things rumble! With the right exhaust they can sound really really nice!

I have three questions:

1.
The 2m4 just has a single exhaust out the back that (I assume) forks out into two pipes running side by side over on the left side as you're facing the bumper. I'm thinking of replacing that whole assembly with something a little more custom, and more suited to the 3800. Now, here's where I'm just fumbling in the dark. I'd like to figure out if (A) I should try to modify this thing into a dual exhaust system heading to both sides of the vehicle (GT style), (B) a dual exhaust system with the two pipes leading to the same spot as the 2m4 design, or (C) a single wide pipe going to the same place as before. What are the advantages and disadvantages of those options?

2.
I don't know much about exhaust systems. I know it consists of a header (or headers), otherwise known as the exhaust manifold? And then that goes into the catalytic converter, then the muffler, and then out into open air. Correct? One thing I'm not sure about is whether the pipes coming out of the headers come out as a pair on a dual exhaust system, or what? How does that work? And with what I got ("3800 Headers- includes Y-Pipe", Part #WCF-HDR-03) will that work either way? It seems like they were telling me it would, but I still don't totally understand. What's a Y pipe and if I did want to do some type of dual exhaust setup, would that defeat the purpose?

3.
I'm looking at either Dynomax or Magnaflow exhaust systems. They both sound great. Honestly, I don't know what all those systems consist of... muffler? Tips? Cat? Everything from the headers to open air? What all would I need to get to use either one of those in either a dual or single exhaust configuration? Am I going to have to take pipes somewhere to get them bent, or are there pre-bent pipes available, or how does that work?

Looks like it will clean up after some elbow grease. The interior is honestly just dirty looking and not that gone.

Oh my gosh, I found my new dash! This might be real super obvious to a lot of people, but it's totally new and awesome to me... exoticwooddash (dot) com has a dash kit that's laser cut and made for my Fiero. Check it out!



This is the cutout, I assume. But look at the positioning! Everything's all in the place it should be. The gauges and lights are arranged correctly and the whole bit!!

Now, they don't have any pictures of my particular dash installed, but they have pictures of others using the same materials. Of course when I first stumbled on the site I thought "Bah, wood? What the heck, I don't want wood!" But just as I was clicking away, I thought "Wait a minute... if I had the tools and know-how, wouldn't wood be the easiest and most obvious thing to re-fabricate something with?" Besides, the site has cars listed going all the way back to 1960, so they must have something going on. I dug back in and lo and behold, they have all kinds of colors and finishes to choose from! Just earlier I was thinking to myself "You know, I'd almost be willing to go with one of those PISA kits, but... grr, I love the "Fiero" dash look!

"Oh, I know, I'll go with one and make it brushed silver with flat gray carpet or something. Yeah, that'd be cool enough... but darn, I'd lose the look!"

Then I come across this place. Not only do they have replacement dash/consoles (so it appears), they can do it in the colors I wanted!

My car is black of course, with a light gray interior, and I plan to keep it that way... mostly. However, I don't mind a few enhancements.

Check this out (not the actual install, but a close available match):



It's a gray interior with raw brushed aluminum dash. Perfect!! And it's less than $200 (as of this writing... they say it's on sale?)!

I think I'd rather go with that than try to scrub everything down or steam it off, or whatever it might take. I'll keep a few things out of the original dash, I'll have to, but this thing here sure looks promising!

Has anyone gotten one of those exoticwooddash kits before? What all do they replace? I'm still reading about it on their website to see what more details I can dig up. Sure looks good though.

By the way, I'm sorry for being SO long winded, but this is like 10 years of longing and wishing all bursting out at once, and I have SO many questions. Should I separate out into separate threads or keep everything here?

(edit) Ah, it looks like that kit goes on top of the factory dash, so I suppose steam cleaning and/or power scrubbing will be in order. (/edit)

(edit2) Heh, okay, it's not made of wood at all... it's polymer/plastic stuff, but their "catch" is that they can give you that wood dash look like you see on luxury cars. I still like what it looks like it might do for my car though! That brushed aluminum and gray, that looks awesome! (/edit2)

[This message has been edited by Zanriel (edited 03-23-2008).]

i believe the bumpers will all interchange but the support structures underneath are different.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: You gotta put up some pics so we can see the dramatic before/after! Notchies rule! Are you coming up to MI for the 25th?

I totally agree, notchies DO rule! I definitely prefer that body style.

If I can find someone to go with me, I'm going to the 25th no doubt! Aren't there a couple of Fiero gatherings in various places each year? I wouldn't mind checking one out earlier if I can find one. Unfortunately, where I live, there are no clubs I can join. I'm all alone out in the wilderness out here in Arkansas. Now there's a shocker!

quote Originally posted by Zanriel: I keep coming back with more questions... The body style on my car is what I believe is called the "standard' style as opposed to the "Aero" style that was used in the 85GT and the 85+ Formulas. There's no front air dam (spoiler? skirt?), etc. The front bumper cover is cracked on the driver's side, but I'd rather go with a Formula/GT style anyhow. Can I just snap one on? Or are there aftermarket bumper covers available that will fit my body style? Are those parts interchangeable or what? I remember now, this is where I found some aftermarket fiberglass stuff: http://www.ovis.net/~dmkfiero/fiberglassparts.html

If you want to do the aero front bumper, you're going to need to find a bumper from a '85GT or a '86SE. Unless you want to change all the trim on the rest of the car. The trim on your '86 is ribbed, and once you get into '87 and '88s, the trim is rounded. Nice Fiero tho! Looks like you've got a fun project!

Here's an update; what all I have on order and/or in progress:

-> 215/45/R17 Ventus HRII All Season Tires (from local shop)
-> 17" x 8" 5Zigen 5N01RC Wheels (from FRSports)
-> 3.8L 3800 L36 Series II (From local dealer. Donor: 1998 Lumina)
-> Rear GT/SE Replica Spoiler (from Spoilers4Less.com, awesome price!)
-> Side windows (from local shop).

From Fiero Store:
-> Side Air Intake Scoop (Part 52514)
-> Front and quarter panel emblems
-> Monroe Suspension Kit #1
-> 1" Lowering Springs
-> Replacement Driver's door hinge
-> Replacement Door Handle clips (to fix the sagging L/H handle)
-> Replacement Driver's lower window seal
-> Side and rear locks
-> New ignition switch

From Fiero Sails:
-> L & R Sail Panels w/ Fiero logo (Crest with pegasus and Fiero above).
-> Rear custom replacement decal that says Fiero GTZ (It won't be a 2m4 or a GT, but it's Zan's custom GT... GTZ!)

From West Coast Fiero:
-> Engine Mount Bracket
-> Flywheel
-> 3800 Exhaust Manifold w/ Y Pipe
-> 3800 Cold Air Intake system (K&N)

All of that stuff is either on order, or has already arrived. Right now I'm waiting on a quote back from Fiero Warehouse / Sage Glassworks on a GT/SE Front Bumper, Rocker Panels, GT/SE Rear Fascia, and "ground effects package". Once all that's done, I think the only thing left will be the interior and of course the work itself... and probably some various parts and pieces. I also bought a few odds and ends off Ebay that I may or may not end up needing, but they looked important, so I got them.

This thing is going to be such a sweet ride when it's done!!

I'm still trying to figure out the exhaust system. I think I've settled on the Dynomax 17749 Super Turbo muffler with the Magnaflow cat (click here for the sound paired up with the 3800). However, since I'm probably going to be getting the rear fascia replaced, I may or may not end up with a dual pipe system (GT/SE) rather than a single pipe (2m4). That will dramatically alter the cat-back shape, so I'll probably hold off on the exhaust system until I'm ready for the body work.

I also need to get the headlight motor issue addressed. I had originally wanted to go to a custom front end / headlight setup like maybe a Camaro style, but I think that might screw up the lines too much, so I plan to stay with the flip-up design.

I've got my best friend and my wife and kid on board for the 25th anniversary so unless something weird happens, I'll see you all there! Thanks for the support and hints. Any tips on the exhaust system? Summit Racing (the place I'm planning on getting the components from) has this: http://store.summitracing.c...294923429+4294922711 That's the GT/SE catback system, which I assume would have the pipes pre-bent the way I'm going to need them. However, since this won't be a true GT/SE but a heavily modified 2m4 with a 3800, should I just plan on going custom pipe bending all the way? And will there be enough room for all that stuff?

[This message has been edited by Zanriel (edited 03-25-2008).]

I think you are REALLY overestimating the cost of this swap, and doing so really does make it easy to needlessly spend money, which i really feel you did with your westcoast fiero purchase.

The exhaust should work to some degree, but you are really paying for it....and only because you have a n/a motor. Dont expect to see a trouble free install with those headers either.

The other stuff from WCF can be had from other places around here and around your town for near half what you paid also.

In reference to your exhaust. That muffler is HUGE I highly doubt it would fit. Also, you can have the "single exhaust look" and still have 2 outlets. For a small time I had a single exhaust, with a invisible dump tucked under the bumper.

Even with your extreme WCF bill, I still think it will be hard for you to have more than $5000 invested into this. Stay savvy, and dont be so ready to dump endless amounts of money into this, and you will be surprised how finantially efficient your build will be come.

The $10000 or so I'm estimating includes the swap and the restoration itself. I'm hoping the swap comes in around $5000 or so and that I can whip the body, trim, and little details into shape for around that amount too... hopefully less. All I've spent so far on the actual swap itself has been $760 for the engine (after tax and delivery), and $1200 or so from WCF for headers, flywheel, mounting bracket, and a K&N air intake system. I pretty much expected to spend around $2000 to $3000 just on hardware related to the swap (including the engine). The rest has been other stuff like replacing the suspension, wheels and tires, and various odds and ends.

The hardest part so far has been finding body parts. The Fiero Factory doesn't want to sell me anything because I guess they don't like to ship body panels, they just want me to go to their swap meet at the end of April. I haven't heard back from Fiero Warehouse yet to see if they have what I need. My next stop, I suppose, is PISA. I bet they have complete body panel sets that they've pulled to make room for their custom body kits.

Back to the swap itself... What kind of issue do you think I might run into with those headers? That's why I got them... to hopefully avoid issues! Heh.

You might want to do some more measuring before you get the 13inch brake conversion. I have some concerns that it won't fit in your 17inch rims. I am no expert but I'd look carefully at that before investing the $$.

The pictures remind me of my car! It's an '85 2M4. Black with missing door strip on the driver's side. If it's just the strip, you can get replacement clips to put it back on.

We may very well have twin vehicles soon. I'm looking at the N/A 3800 for my swap as well. I'm running 17" MB Motorsports "Drifters" on mine with black spokes and a chrome lip

I'd order a carpet kit for it and put a set of Mr. Mike's leather seat covers on it. Everything else will buff out with some vinyl cleaner and elbow grease. I've even gone so far as to re-apply the vinyl bits that are pulling away from the plastic frame using a Urethane caulk and some clamps to hold it in place.

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Kendall (Icelander) Whitlatch
'85 Fiero 2M4 - 5spd Isuzu
'67 LeMans/GTO clone 6.5 litre TH400
All the rest aren't Pontiacs, so what does it matter?

Thanks for the tips! I do have a carpet set on the way and I'm planning on getting Mr. Mike's seat covers just like you said. Awesome!

Now, here's an issue that just came up. They finally got the side windows replaced, but the installer couldn't get the inner door panels back on because the mounting hardware is so degraded. The driver's side inner door panel is all warped up at the top around where the mirror adjustment knob is, so that one might have to be replaced anyhow. Any suggestions? I plan on changing from manual windows and locks to power windows and locks. Would it be worth trying to get the ones I have straightened and re-mounted, or would I be better off trying to find some inner panels from a parts car somewhere? If so, will I have any issues between year models or are they pretty much interchangeable?

(edit) Ah, I see they have the retainers at the Fiero Store. Now I just have to figure out whether to keep the old panels or try to find newer/better ones.

[This message has been edited by Zanriel (edited 03-26-2008).]

My initial plan for the "power doors" that I got off a wrecked '86 is to use some fiberglass resin to reinforce the door panel material and then re-cover them. The vinyl pockets that were attached to the area where the manual window crank would be were full of rainwater. :P

I've been letting the door panels dry out in my shop/shed for several months now... I haven't done anything with them yet as I haven't installed the doors yet.

Kendall

Fiberglass resin... that sounds like that might help in my situation. I might be able to actually resurrect my door panels. It seems like people tend to hang onto those because they probably don't often get as warped as mine is/are.

Bump...

Just waiting on parts to arrive now. I ordered a driver's side door from an '86 GT and its in. It should match the ground effects / etc. that I'm planning on getting from Fiero Factory. I'm glad I got that door because the handle is in good shape and the trim is attached. It addresses at least 4 different issues I had with the old one.

The waiting though... argh! I'm anxious to get started.

Pretty much all the parts are in and now I'm waiting on the mechanic, heh. He says it will probably take about a month for the whole conversion. All the body panels are in too! I'm just waiting on the wheels and that's all the parts I know of for sure that I'll need.

I'm trying to find a good picture of a black 1985 Fiero GT or 1986 Fiero SE and I'm having a really hard time with it!

The one guy who posted the picture of the 504 HP Fiero had about the perfect body style I'm looking for. Most of the GT's I'm finding have silver ground effects, but I'm planning on making mine all black.

Anyone know where any good pictures are? Google is not my friend on this quest. Most of the pictures coming up are the wrong color, or worse, the fastback style or heavily modified Fieros. Argh!