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Turbo timing?? by Dan010
Started on: 01-27-2008 01:48 PM
Replies: 13
Last post by: Dan010 on 01-29-2008 07:04 AM
Dan010
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Report this Post01-27-2008 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
Added a turbo to my 86gt 3.4 push rod, 2 bar map, 85 ecm with the knock sensor.

Question is????

Timing is being pulled out instead of advancing as it should.
What should I look for that would cause this???
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AutoTech
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Report this Post01-27-2008 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AutoTechClick Here to Email AutoTechSend a Private Message to AutoTechDirect Link to This Post
Knock sensor.
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Dan010
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Report this Post01-27-2008 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
Ok, good answer, now if the knock sensor is disconnected, but continues to do the same thing, retard timing instead of
advanceing timing.
I have tried this, dsconnecting the knock sensor module from the ecm, same results.
What could I have wired wrong that would do this???
I did add a 2 bar map sensor and harness.

I had to do something wrong, many others are running just fine.
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AutoTech
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Report this Post01-27-2008 07:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AutoTechClick Here to Email AutoTechSend a Private Message to AutoTechDirect Link to This Post
The ecm is setup for 2 bar and knock right? I dont have a knock sensor on my car, but Im wondering if it will go into a limp mode if disconnected.
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Dan010
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Report this Post01-28-2008 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
This may also be true, I have also have a chip that does not enable the knock sensor.
Same results.

Let me ask this, the ecm collects data from what to change timing??
Then from the ecm to the distributor what does it use to change timing.

Looking for something that is wired wrong or just plain bad

Thanks for your help !!!!!!!
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AutoTech
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Report this Post01-28-2008 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AutoTechClick Here to Email AutoTechSend a Private Message to AutoTechDirect Link to This Post
Wait a second. Is the timing being retared, or pulled out all together? I think I may have mis-read your question. Timing retard is normal under boost.

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 01-28-2008).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post01-28-2008 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
What sort of wide open timing are you seeing? Typical timing for boosted gm motors is not higher than 20 degrees at wide open....
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Report this Post01-28-2008 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for vafierroClick Here to visit vafierro's HomePageClick Here to Email vafierroSend a Private Message to vafierroDirect Link to This Post
Maybe I'm missing something here. I thought the timing was supposed to be retarded as boost increases. Am I missing something here?
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Dan010
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Report this Post01-28-2008 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
Not sure the amount of time that is being pulled out, do not have the scans here at work.
But it is pulling so much timing out that it will hardly eccelerate at all. I mean, from a dead stop I have to barely push the gas
pedal at all or it will just boog and not eccelerate at all.
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Dan010
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Report this Post01-28-2008 01:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
1 question

is it possible to wire the map sensor wrong and still have the ecm not throw a code
The turbo the map sensor, knock sensor were added. Have 2 chips, 1 with knock sensor disabled, 1 enabled, no difference
in how the engin runs

I am looking for any possible reason for the timing to be pulled so far that it will not work.
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Jncomutt
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Report this Post01-28-2008 03:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JncomuttClick Here to Email JncomuttSend a Private Message to JncomuttDirect Link to This Post
we need to know what your timing is at on the scans before we can really help. Are you positive its the timing?
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Dan010
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Report this Post01-28-2008 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
OK, I am working with Ryan at Sinster performance. Ryan has review the scans that I have done 2 times.
Also, reviewed a scan of the chip that came with the turbo setup that I purchased.
Ryan has reviewed and indicated that the scans are showing this pull out of timing.
Ryan is/has tried looking at this, he is doing an excellent job trying to evaluate what is happening.

This is why I am asking here what can make this happen, what might i have done wrong.
I am at a point I might just take the turbo off and enjoy My Fiero with out a turbo.
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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post01-28-2008 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dan010:

OK, I am working with Ryan at Sinster performance. Ryan has review the scans that I have done 2 times.
Also, reviewed a scan of the chip that came with the turbo setup that I purchased.
Ryan has reviewed and indicated that the scans are showing this pull out of timing.
Ryan is/has tried looking at this, he is doing an excellent job trying to evaluate what is happening.

This is why I am asking here what can make this happen, what might i have done wrong.
I am at a point I might just take the turbo off and enjoy My Fiero with out a turbo.


The turbo very likely has nothing at all to do with what's happening, it's just a minor exhaust restriction. I would focus on the chip and the wiring. In situations like this it is important to go over all changes made after the engine last ran properly. Not knowing what changes you made and the time you made them makes it difficult but based on your description I would suspect a wire is improperly connected like putting a battery in an electric car with the terminals connected backwards. If you just installed the ESC module you should go over the wiring again and make sure the power supply is connected properly. Although it's solid state equipment it's pretty old technology and there may be a possibility connecting it backwards will make it function in reverse as opposed to ruining it. I would also look at the ignition module because they can do some weird things in addition to failing all together when they are bad. My first experience with a bad one resulted in the engine (2.8) idling like I was still sitting at a light although the accelerator was at half throttle.

You should review your TPS voltage also and any sensor or wire tampered with just before the problem started. It's possible you have a bad electronic part that may not be detectable through the datalog. I would certainly be suspicious of the ESC module also.

Yes the MAP can fail without setting a code, that's why my swap hasn't been test driven yet.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 01-28-2008).]

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Dan010
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Report this Post01-29-2008 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dan010Click Here to Email Dan010Send a Private Message to Dan010Direct Link to This Post
looks like I need to look at the map and its wiring
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