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engine won't turn over? by 87GT2M6
Started on: 01-24-2008 09:33 AM
Replies: 18
Last post by: Hudini on 01-27-2008 10:21 PM
87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-24-2008 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
Driving home last night the engine just stopped, like if someone had flipped a switch. I pulled over and the engine cranks but will not start. This morning I checked and noticed the center wire going from the ignition coil to the distributor was heavily corroded. My question is, would that prevent the car from starting and when I change this today if it still does not start what else could it be.. Need advice here from all that are willing to help.

Thank you in advance, this is a very friendly and helpful forum from what I can see.

Angel
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Report this Post01-24-2008 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofetishClick Here to Email fierofetishSend a Private Message to fierofetishDirect Link to This Post
Firstly...welcome!! Sorry it is a problem that has brought you here..but at least you ARE here now!!
Yes, the cable could have failed.It is more likely to be the ignition module, or the coil, or the pick-up coil. Oh..have you checked fuel level? That isn't meant to be funny ..the fuel gauge has been known to be very inaccurate It could even be the fuel pump . Which model Fiero is it? How long have you had it, and has there been any work done on it lately?
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 01-24-2008).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post01-24-2008 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Welcome to the Forum!

The ignition module is the number one suspect in my mind. It lives inside the distributor and gets very, very hot. Sooner or later (and always in a bad spot) it just dies. You can remove the IM easily and take it to a place like Autozone or Advance and have it tested. Highly recommended to get an AC Delco replacement for daily use and a cheapy spare for emergency use.

The coil can also die and cause the engine to just quit. Easy to test with a multimeter.

Of course, you sure it has fuel? More than one person has run out of gas because the gas gauge was off.


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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-24-2008 09:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
the car is a 1987 GT fastback, no work has been done to it recently. I've had this car for about 5 months now. I'm going to start off with the ignition coil and wires first, unless you think I should do something diffrient, I'm going on what you guys tell me. As far as I'm concerned you guys are the experts.

Thanks for your quick response Nick it is greatly appreciated.

Angel
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Hudini
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Report this Post01-24-2008 10:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
I'd invest in a multimeter first ($15-$20) and test the coil and pickup coil on the car. If those test good then remove the IM and have it tested at a parts store like Autozone. I'd also add a gallon or two of gas. I hate spending money on unnecessary parts, but that's just me. The multimeter will last a very long time and you can use it on many things. I use mine all the time.
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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-24-2008 10:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
I will do the multimeter first as you suggest. As far as gas it has a full tank or close to full as I filled it up a day before this happened. Just so I know is the fiero store item number 51054 control module the same as the IM you mentioned?
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Report this Post01-24-2008 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DPWoodClick Here to visit DPWood's HomePageClick Here to Email DPWoodSend a Private Message to DPWoodDirect Link to This Post
Do you hear the fuel pump come on when you turn the key to start. It should run for a couple seconds to pressurize the system.

I'm not that familiar with the V6 wiring but my little four bangers have two fusable links coming off the starter circuit. One is just for the starter solonoid, the other is linked to fuel and accessories. My wife and I had both of our cars die on the road because of corroded/burnt fusable links.

Just a possibility

David
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Hudini
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Report this Post01-24-2008 10:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Yes, that's the one. And a good price too at $61 for AC Delco. Advance was $66.50.

Also, while you are checking things, look at your fuses. Especially the TBI 1 and TBI 2.

As asked above, make sure the fuel pump runs when you first turn the key to ON. You can hear it for about 2 seconds or so. If you have a fuel pressure tester it should show about 43psi.

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Report this Post01-24-2008 12:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofetishClick Here to Email fierofetishSend a Private Message to fierofetishDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87GT2M6:

the car is a 1987 GT fastback, no work has been done to it recently. I've had this car for about 5 months now. I'm going to start off with the ignition coil and wires first, unless you think I should do something diffrient, I'm going on what you guys tell me. As far as I'm concerned you guys are the experts.

Thanks for your quick response Nick it is greatly appreciated.

Angel


You are more than welcome!! Now...before we rush off to spend all our money, let's just run a couple of very simple checks to eliminate at least one or the other:
Does your car throw a problem code? Check this out FIRST!! If you donīt know how to do that, look at the top odf this page, along the black border, to the right. You will see Ogreīs cave..click on it, and then under electrical subsection look for trouble codes, and then check how to do it.

Next:is it an ignition problem, or fuel problem? the codes pulled SHOULD guide you, if there are any....if not:
First, check for a spark at the plugs. easily done with an old plug connected to one of the plug cables on the car. Hold the plug with insulated pliers, or grips, and get somebody to crank the engine over with the key, whilst you hold the body of the plug against a metal part of the engine.You only need to turn the engine over a couple of times, and you will then see if you have a spark or not, at the plug electrode. If you HAVE got a spark, it is 99%sure you have a fuel problem. If you DONīT get a spark..then it is electrical..or even both !! Donīt count out either yet! IF you have a spark at the plug, AND you can hear the fuel pump (which is hidden away in the fuel tank ), then maybe your fuses for the injectors are blown. There are two only, because all three cylinders on each bank fire simultaneously . I is most unusual for both fuses to blow together!!
Try these tips first..they wonīt cost you anything..and you will be learning too
Good luck!!
Nick

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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-24-2008 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
So far this is what I have done...

1) Borrowed a multimeter...got home to late to actually do anything "can't wait till the hour changes" must have more daylight time!

2) Since my wires are bad I purchased a set

3) I've been to Ogreīs cave and printed out all I need to test the electrical

4) Checked already for blown fuses....all good

5) I checked for spark and there is none

I have to work tomorrow so by the time I get home it's the same thing as today too late too dark

I will finalize all the tips and suggestions everyone has given me this Saturday and I will post my results.

Thank you all for your help I'm glad to be a part of such a friendly and wonderful forum, you all deserve pluses thanks again.

Angel
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PaulJK
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Report this Post01-26-2008 01:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 87GT2M6:

I'm going to start off with the ignition coil ....

Angel


Good idea - it's one of the easiest things and probably gets the hottest since it's ON the engine and next to the exhaust manifold. You might consider using an aftermarket coil that mounts on the trunk wall to stay away from the heat and lengthen its life. I can recommend Accel which has been good to me (so far). Don't forget about the distributor cap and rotor, which are also easy and relatively cheap, and could be ruining your spark. Wires are also easy, just be sure to use a good brand of 8 mm wires, like Taylor; everybody here seems to have their own favorite. No need to keep the metal protectors , if you still have the original wires. Do Not use the $8 set from AutoZone . When buying the pick-up coil and module, AC Delco brand is probably the best to use.

If you have time and energy left, verify your grounds are making good connections (including the battery cable connections):

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/084498.html

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 01-26-2008).]

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Report this Post01-26-2008 06:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierothomasClick Here to Email fierothomasSend a Private Message to fierothomasDirect Link to This Post
where would the fuses for an 86 notchie be located.... under the dash or somewhere else... i too am having this prob never thought to look at the fuses
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Report this Post01-26-2008 03:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKDirect Link to This Post
Under the dash next to the driver's left foot
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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-26-2008 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
Hi everyone...here is what’s going on today.

Installed a new ignition coil, cap rotor and new wires.

With the limited tools I have I can't check fuel system other than do what is on the ogre's site and it checks out ok.

Still no turn over, I'm giving up and I'm just going to take it to the Pontiac dealership nearby. Just to get it there is going to be $65.00 dollars, I can feel this is going to
be an expensive problem but I just don't know what else to do.

Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated other than that my GT is going under the knife (tools that is) Monday

Keep checking back here and as soon as I get it working one way or another I’ll post what was done to it to get it fixed.

Thank you all you've been great, I'm really glad to be a part of this community.


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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-26-2008 05:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
Lets say if the ground cable broke or came loose would that prevent the car from starting?

Oil level in the car is one quart low, it has a slow leak and I do me slow one drop a day or so. 2nd Question is it possible that being a quart low keep the car from starting?

just a thought...


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Report this Post01-26-2008 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84BillClick Here to visit 84Bill's HomePageSend a Private Message to 84BillDirect Link to This Post
Have you tried a spatula?

Just a boot back to the top for ya.
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Report this Post01-26-2008 10:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
I would take out the ignition module and take it to Autozone or Advance or O'reillys or Murrays, etc. They have a special tester for ignition modules that will tell you if it's bad. Just remove the dist cap and the 2 connectors on the front and the 1 on the back of the module. Two 7mm (IIRC) bolts and it will come right out.

Here is a link to jetman's distributor replacement. Has some good photo's of the ignition module on the distributor:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079386.html
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87GT2M6
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Report this Post01-27-2008 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87GT2M6Click Here to Email 87GT2M6Send a Private Message to 87GT2M6Direct Link to This Post
Ok people it's fixed...thanks to all your suggestions, pointers and over all great help.

After doing everything including checking the ign. module with the ohm meter which pointed to good I was lost to what could be the problem. I then did a double check on the ign. module by taking it to the auto parts "advance" store and having it checked out and low and behold that was it. I put in the new one $35.00 and it started right up.

Thank you all again for your input I would have not been able to fix it if it were not for all the information you all gave me.

+s for all

List of things I bought and replaced before the last step "ign. module".

New msd ign coil
Cap and rotor
New spark plug cables
Extra ground cable going from the plenum to the strut tower
and the magic piece ign module.

Angel
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Hudini
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Report this Post01-27-2008 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
That's cool. And $35 is much better than that dealer would have charged you. I have to ask though, did you put the grease on the bottom of the module? It's very important to dissipate heat and make the ignition module live longer.
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