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how much weight can be dropped by thecrew29999
Started on: 01-16-2008 11:08 PM
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Last post by: Steven Snyder on 01-27-2008 04:47 AM
thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-16-2008 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
i recall on a website a stock fiero comes in around 2700lbs or somewhere in there but how much weight can be stripped off these cars?
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Report this Post01-16-2008 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero BrickSend a Private Message to Fiero BrickDirect Link to This Post
That depends on how far you're willing to go with stripping, replacing parts, etc. What do you still want the car to do when you're done?

[This message has been edited by Fiero Brick (edited 01-16-2008).]

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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-16-2008 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
be a chassis with a engine basicly. looking for a track car nothing more
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
my goal would be to be around 2000 lbs with about a 450 lbs engine roughly.
figured id shot my goal numbers out there
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stickpony
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Report this Post01-17-2008 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stickponyClick Here to visit stickpony's HomePageSend a Private Message to stickponyDirect Link to This Post
Do it. Do it. Bacardi and Cola, do it!
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-17-2008 12:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
With no trunk, no interior (no dash, no pillar covers, no headliner, no carpet, no speakers, etc), stock brakes (they're very light), all heat shields and engine bay insulation removed, stock wheels (14.5 lbs each), and a very short exhaust, my 1988 Fiero with a 3.4 DOHC V6 and Isuzu 5-speed weighed ~2660 lbs.
It was scaled on race scales at 2720 with the trunk and interior installed. I removed the trunk and weighed the metal to be 18 lbs. The interior carpet, dashboard, etc, was another 40-50lbs or so.
The 3.4 DOHC weighs ~450 lbs.
I don't think you can get down to 2000 lbs. There is not 700 lbs of useless stuff to remove after the point I was at.
Keep in mind a roll cage is going to add weight. You're also probably going to want bigger brakes. You'll certainly want wider wheels so you can mount better sized tires.

[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 01-17-2008).]

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SCCAFiero
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroClick Here to Email SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroDirect Link to This Post
FYI. My 8 point cage weighs about 150 pounds.
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
how much do stock seats weigh?

and im guessing both trunk and hood are fiberglass?

i know with carbon fiber from fiber glass your probley olny gonna save about 20 lbs tops

what about gutting doors? no power anything, no stereo, no reinforcement in the doors and possibly lexan windows over stock glass
kinda sad that it dont seem like 2000 lbs - 2200 lbs is easy to get i guess the body panels and the cage the car was built from carry some weight

[This message has been edited by thecrew29999 (edited 01-17-2008).]

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Pyrthian
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Report this Post01-17-2008 10:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PyrthianClick Here to Email PyrthianSend a Private Message to PyrthianDirect Link to This Post
being it will be a track car, I expect the will be a cage - so yes - there is much to shed in the doors also.
for street use tho - keep them doors solid.
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linuxpowered88
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Report this Post01-17-2008 10:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for linuxpowered88Click Here to Email linuxpowered88Send a Private Message to linuxpowered88Direct Link to This Post
Ive never done it but the GTP alum. tubular frame will save a lot of weight from what i read. Someone who knows more please speak up and correct my ignorance.
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by linuxpowered88:

Ive never done it but the GTP alum. tubular frame will save a lot of weight from what i read. Someone who knows more please speak up and correct my ignorance.

do you mean putting a GTP alum frame on a fiero ?
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-17-2008 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
There was a prototype aluminum Fiero space frame built that saved something like 100 or 200 lbs. You can't get one anywhere. AFAIK it was crushed.
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SCCAFiero
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Report this Post01-17-2008 12:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SCCAFieroClick Here to Email SCCAFieroSend a Private Message to SCCAFieroDirect Link to This Post
I have to keep certain things in my car such as windows per rules. Mine currently weighs 2542 with half a tank of gas and without me. After you get done with the easy stuff like the entire interior, 15 feet of exhaust parts ( I now have 4 feet total), and obvious shields trim etc, it becomes a lot harder to find extra weight to lose. I am looking to drop another 140# off my car if possible.
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
well since the weight dont seem to really drop much beyond 2500 2600 lbs im just gonna need to add a few more bolt ons haha
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josef644
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Report this Post01-17-2008 06:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Click Here to Email josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
The Ac box, heatrer box is about 25 lbs. you can remove it and mount a block off plate there. Plus heater and ac lines to the front. A gallon of water is about 8 lbs. you have a good 1/2 gallon of water in those two lines from the engine to the heater core. 4 lbs
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niemann99
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Report this Post01-17-2008 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for niemann99Send a Private Message to niemann99Direct Link to This Post
Check out http://www.8shark.com/12.htm

His goal is 1300 lbs. Of course, it is debatable how much Fiero is left.

If this is a track only car, start by gutting the doors, make them shells only. ( you have anti-intrusion bars on your roll cage, right? ) Save at least 100 lbs. If you're really serious, eliminate the jambs, strikers and hinges, both for the door and frame.

Then, get your hole saw out and go to work. Good places to stay away from: Steering column support, the steel parts around the windshield, brake M/C and clutch M/C. Good places to make holes: roof ( you have your roll bar installed, right? ) front inner fenders, anyplace else that is redundant. Areas that need reinforcement: Strut hats, lower front frame members. i know, i know, the front inner fenders are supposed to do that, but they are too weak to do a good job, If I could, I would weld a piece of roll bar from the front of the lower front frame member to the cross bar across the dash area, one on each side, and eliminate the inner fender completely.

Ok, take two peices of steel about a yard long each, wide enough to fit between your roll cage and the A pillar. Make holes in them to lighten and weld those suckers together, the down bar to the A pillar, that is. Tack what's left of your roof to the roll cage too.

This is a lot of trouble. Depending on class, why not just make a tube frame fiero?

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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
wow hes got some project going on. 225 lbs engine with 200 hp and if he hits 1300 lbs its gonna be one fast machine
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megafreakindeth
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Report this Post01-17-2008 08:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for megafreakindethSend a Private Message to megafreakindethDirect Link to This Post
someone did a tube frame fiero appaerntly and it didnt give any substancial weight savings over the space frame. another guy did the measurements and found that the ecotec in an 88 notch weighed in at 2400, start gutting it out from there and you should be good to go.
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by megafreakindeth:

someone did a tube frame fiero appaerntly and it didnt give any substancial weight savings over the space frame. another guy did the measurements and found that the ecotec in an 88 notch weighed in at 2400, start gutting it out from there and you should be good to go.

that being said what does a stock 2.8 weigh?
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post01-17-2008 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thecrew29999:

that being said what does a stock 2.8 weigh?


Roughly 350-375lbs. About the same as the 4.9.

For some reason the 84-85 cars are much lighter then the later cars. I still have never heard a good reason why that is.

Here is a link to some engine and tranny weights...
http://fp.enter.net/~rockcrawl/weights.htm

Stock fiero weights and other specs...
http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm

More info (site recently updated), for fun...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Fiero

Once you have the weight down a much as you can from removing stuff you will have to start with lower weight bolt on parts to get anywhere near 2000lbs. These are the four I would start with to drop some serious weight.

Wheels ~10-45lbs depending on size
Alluminum knuckels/spindles ~40lbs
Make an alluminum engine cradle. There are none available yet for some strange reason?!? est. 40-70 lbs probably more
Tubular "A" arms and coilovers ~25-50lbs
High tensile race springs ~8-10 lbs

For what you can remove from the car...

Entire interior. I mean everything short of the gauges if you don't plan on replacing them. Carpet (light weight replacements available), dash, console, headliner (and sunroof possible or equiped), a-pillar trim, ect.
Trunk, including blower motor (if equiped) and tubing.
Remove front tub, everything heater related (and block off as stated above), headlight buckets (when possible), washer fluid tank (~6 lbs when full), steering stabilizer strut (84-87), and any wiring that is no longer used (this can add up fast). Anything non essential, bolted down or not. Seats will make a huge difference. Lightweight racing seats can save a ton especially if you can get away with only putting one back in.

jstricker has a fiero that weighs pretty close to that and would be a great person to talk to about it. Good luck and post you results if you can.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 01-17-2008).]

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ron768
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ron768Click Here to Email ron768Send a Private Message to ron768Direct Link to This Post
What was the basic weight of the car without any power options? When I ordered my 85 SE, I didnt order any options except for A/C. No power windows, power mirrors, or power door locks. Hard top, no sunroof.
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
Oh yeah, that's the other thing. My car had no options except AC. So there wasn't anything there to remove either....
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post

Steven Snyder

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Member since Mar 2004
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:
Once you have the weight down a much as you can from removing stuff you will have to start with lower weight bolt on parts to get anywhere near 2000lbs. These are the four I would start with to drop some serious weight.

Wheels ~10-45lbs depending on size

Stock rims are pretty light, so any performance upgrade is going to add weight to the figure he's starting with (2700 lb).

 
quote

Alluminum knuckels/spindles ~40lbs

You're not going to save 10 lbs per corner using aluminum stuff. Maybe 3 or 4.

 
quote

Make an alluminum engine cradle. There are none available yet for some strange reason?!? est. 40-70 lbs probably more

What? The stock cradle weighs like 40 or 50 lbs. That's all steel. You can't save more than maybe 15 lbs by making a cradle out of aluminum.. and it would be a LOT of work and money esp including the heat treating that is necessary.
 
quote

Tubular "A" arms and coilovers ~25-50lbs

Coilovers don't save any weight. Tubular A-arms ~4 lbs per corner.
 
quote

High tensile race springs ~8-10 lbs

Springs aren't going to weigh any less than the stock ones. Should be about the same... smaller diameter, but more windings..
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ron768:

What was the basic weight of the car without any power options? When I ordered my 85 SE, I didnt order any options except for A/C. No power windows, power mirrors, or power door locks. Hard top, no sunroof.


2.5 or V6? What tranny? Basic curb weight for an 85SE (my daily driver ) is supposedly around 2500-2650 depending on engine and tranny combo along with options. The 85GT's were still the lightest stock fiero with a V6 and even beat out the later released formula (base car with performance drivetrain) but options could be added to these and often increased the weight.

The 86-88GT bodywork and standard options knocked the fiero up into the 2650-2750 range but even the formula is heavier then the early cars. The SE's can be pretty heavy also since they were available with all options. Add a bigger engine and 4 speed auto tranny and some have broken the 3200 mark.
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thecrew29999
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thecrew29999Click Here to Email thecrew29999Send a Private Message to thecrew29999Direct Link to This Post
jesus 3200 lbs? hell id go with a different car in that case.
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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
I knew I should have put in a disclaimer.
My weights were estimates to the best of my knowledge. I have no intention of building a track only car at this time.

Steve Snyder : I dont want to take the time to quote each and everything you said so here you go...

Stock 14's weigh in at 22lbs (See "High Performance Fieros" written by Robert Wagner). 15's come in just under at 21lbs. Motegi Tracklites (just off the top of my head) can weigh around 10lbs for a 15 and 12.5lbs for a 16. Thats 40-50 lbs there. If you go smaller then that and go with a true racing wheel you can get it down more.

At second glance 10 lbs per side may be a bit high. But I think 3-4 is a bit low.

What? I weighed a stock 84-87 cradle when I was going to send one out to someone. Weighed in at 90lbs so obviously the deal did not go through. The 88 cradle is probably lighter. Your right though 70 would be impossible unless is was pretty flimsy. Sorry should have been paying closer attention to what I was typing.

Tubular and coilovers together do save weight. See below.

A high tensile race spring will save weight just like a forged rim saves weight over a cast. The way the metal is formed and produced can make a world of difference. Not only is the outer diameter smaller but the wire diameter itself is smaller, not to mention that they will (should) be shorter. 2.5 lbs per spring is very doable.

I appoligize for my weights being off. Did the best I could.

I really don't want to argue about this but if you insist lets take it up through PM from now on out. I'd like to exchange ideas with you anyway. I think it could be fun. Later.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 01-17-2008).]

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Fieroseverywhere
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Report this Post01-17-2008 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroseverywhereClick Here to Email FieroseverywhereSend a Private Message to FieroseverywhereDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thecrew29999:

jesus 3200 lbs? hell id go with a different car in that case.


Me too. Hehe.

Thats why I started with an 85GT for my build. My car has only power windows and trunk release for options and is a manual. Add my 4.9, lighter weight wheels and all the stuff I removed (not necissary with that motor) and I should be around 2500lbs. Trying to get 10lb per HP out of it to start with. Should be great for a street car. If I do decide that I want more power later a turbo will probably be added or I'll just remove some stuff and/or bolt on more light parts to get the weight down.
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Steven Snyder
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Report this Post01-27-2008 04:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Steven SnyderClick Here to visit Steven Snyder's HomePageClick Here to Email Steven SnyderSend a Private Message to Steven SnyderDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere:
I really don't want to argue about this but if you insist lets take it up through PM from now on out.


How are other people supposed to know if you're wrong if I just PM you about it?
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