quote Originally posted by Will: There is a cable from the automatic shifter that operates a mechanical interlock on the auto trans steering column. This prevents the key from being removed (or the wheel locked) with the car in gear.

True, I should have said the little lever was the only meaningful difference. Actually the purpose of the cable is to lock the steering column when the car is in park. The cable doesn't do anything with the key.

After checking the service manual, the electrical Park/Neutral switch IS on the transmission and for the manual the clutch start switch is on the clutch pedal.

I see; so in theory it could be done using the auto column? That is a definate plus with the caddy ecm. Dont you have to be a tuner to mod the caddy ecm, or can you do it yourself?

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: I see; so in theory it could be done using the auto column?

It's no theory....I converted my car from auto to manual and I didn't swap the column.

I don't know what's involved in tuning the caddy ECM, but there are folks that can do it for you at reasonable cost.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-06-2007).]

So if you dont switch the column do you just ignore the cable lock or do you have to do something?

Just ignore the cable lock. I had mine disconnected anyway.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Actually the purpose of the cable is to lock the steering column when the car is in park. The cable doesn't do anything with the key.

Actually, it does. At least on my 6000. You're not supposed to be able to turn the key all the way to lock with the vehicle in gear. Of course once parts wear and work their way out of adjustment...

quote Originally posted by Will: Actually, it does. At least on my 6000. You're not supposed to be able to turn the key all the way to lock with the vehicle in gear. Of course once parts wear and work their way out of adjustment...

My 88 Fiero is like that - you can not remove the key without it in park...

Contact aaronrus for the programming - he is about the only one that does it (unless you can get ahold of Rockcrawl).

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 12-06-2007).]

Yeah I should have been more clear that the cable does pevent you from locking the steering column in geer which has the effect of not letting you remove the key. But the default position is unlocked if you disconnect it. I had to do emergency surgery on mine when it jammed and I couldn't remove my key. That's why it was disconnected even when my car was an auto. It's not required.

Well I suppose that answers that. Depending on which route I go and how permanant I think it will be I may or may not perform the column swap. Nice to know I have the option.

quote Originally posted by BJR: How can you tell a 1984 economy trans with the hiway gears in it, from the other 4 speed used in 84? Is there some numbers on the case or some other identifying thing to look for?

two ways, one is the white identification sticker on it. those that have DW or UM in the number printed on the sticker are the 4.10 performance gears, and those that have NA or DJ printed in the number are the econo gears. another way is counting the number of turns of the input shaft vs the output shaft when you enage the tranny into 4th gear. if it is a performance tranny, it will have approx 3.3 turns of the input shaft to one turn of the ouput shaft while in 4th gear, and the econo tranny will have approx. 2.4 turns of the input shaft to one turn of the output shaft while in 4th gear

[This message has been edited by aaronrus (edited 12-06-2007).]

this is a little off subject, but mickey moose mentioned the wiring harness for the 4.9 and I am currently putting my 4.9 back together for its debut in my 86. I am using the caddy setup all the way, engine, tranny and computer. I will probably get aaronus (spelling?) to flash my chip but I still haven't found a good build thread or info for making the harness. I need pinouts or schematics for the caddy (92 deville) and any other pertinent info. I would also like to find some technical manuals online for the 4t60e tranny so I can go through mine for a rebuild. If anyone here can help, please and thank you. by the way jscott--I have been reading about all of your achievments and was wondering who did your harness?
Again, thanks guys--fieros are great with pennocks!

quote Originally posted by majesticpools: ...by the way jscott--I have been reading about all of your achievments and was wondering who did your harness?

PBJ custom built it from the Fiero and Cadillac harness.

quote Originally posted by majesticpools: this is a little off subject, but mickey moose mentioned the wiring harness for the 4.9 and I am currently putting my 4.9 back together for its debut in my 86. I am using the caddy setup all the way, engine, tranny and computer. I will probably get aaronus (spelling?) to flash my chip but I still haven't found a good build thread or info for making the harness. I need pinouts or schematics for the caddy (92 deville) and any other pertinent info. I would also like to find some technical manuals online for the 4t60e tranny so I can go through mine for a rebuild. If anyone here can help, please and thank you. by the way jscott--I have been reading about all of your achievments and was wondering who did your harness? Again, thanks guys--fieros are great with pennocks!

$700 for a plug n play harness from injection technologies, or go to www.fieroaddiction.com for wiring schematics for a 91 deville

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: My 88 Fiero is like that - you can not remove the key without it in park... Contact aaronrus for the programming - he is about the only one that does it (unless you can get ahold of Rockcrawl).

I only need a key to start my 84. Once its started the key can come out without any effort at all. I can also pop the decklid while I'm driving and turn off the headlights without lowering them. I can also lower them half way if I want.

Its got a few helpful gremlins in it or maybe... it just needs some work. Depends on you outlook I guess.

Each one of these little cars has its own personality. One of the reasons I like them.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 12-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: $700 for a plug n play harness from injection technologies, or go to www.fieroaddiction.com for wiring schematics for a 91 deville

$700 that is exspensive!!! Why so much, I would think that once you have it down, caddy to 84, caddy to 85-87, caddy to 88 it would just be a color by number operation, is there a reason it is so much?

And my 84 you can turn the ignition without any key at all, kind of convienient because I used to lock myself out, now after unlocking the door I put my keys away and then get in. It works for me.

Where is the identification tag on the muncie?

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: $700 that is exspensive!!! Why so much, I would think that once you have it down, caddy to 84, caddy to 85-87, caddy to 88 it would just be a color by number operation, is there a reason it is so much? And my 84 you can turn the ignition without any key at all, kind of convienient because I used to lock myself out, now after unlocking the door I put my keys away and then get in. It works for me. Where is the identification tag on the muncie?

its gonna be a white sticker that is somewhere on the case. if you cant find it, then it fell off and you will have to count the turns of the input shaft vs the output shaft. all the '84 muncie 4 speeds have a smooth casing that is weaker than the v6 muncie casing, so after you locate an "econo" 4 speed muncie, you will want to swap the gearset into an '85 or later casing. the '85 v6 muncie 4 speed casings is webbed and much stronger.

the econo 4 speed from an '84 fiero:

the '85 and later v6 4 speed:


like i said, the 4t60e is the best way to go, best combination with the engine for both performance AND economy.

[This message has been edited by aaronrus (edited 12-07-2007).]

quote Originally posted by aaronrus: like i said, the 4t60e is the best way to go, best combination with the engine for both performance AND economy.

Best is a relative term....what if you hate automatic transmissions with a passion? That's why I got rid of my 4t60e.

quote Originally posted by Dizzixx: $700 that is exspensive!!! Why so much, I would think that once you have it down, caddy to 84, caddy to 85-87, caddy to 88 it would just be a color by number operation, is there a reason it is so much?

That's not out of line for a custom harness.
Injection Technologies builds harnesses from scratch using new parts. There's also labor and overhead because they have to run a business and sustain that business. They're not just some dude in his basement trying to make cash on the side.

Also, piecing together two harnesses is time consuming. For example, if you're buying a harness from me, you're paying me my labor to build it. I didn't go to college to make $10/hour splicing wires and crimping pins.

...as Will said...once you build one, you will see why.

FYI: Painless wire harnesses range from just over $500 to over $1000, average about $800: http://www.shopatron.com/in...02.0.8460.8474.0.0.0

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I had the 4T60e...Hated It Changed to the F40 Six Speed. Fieroseverywhere - Too soon to know about gas mileage. The car is parked in Wisconsin for a few more weeks.

Still too soon to quote any MPG numbers as I am working on getting the tune right on the car....but I can tell you the 6 speed is INSANE!! I was just messing around on the freeway in 6th gear and it went from 70 to 100 faster than any car I've ever driven.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Still too soon to quote any MPG numbers as I am working on getting the tune right on the car....but I can tell you the 6 speed is INSANE!! I was just messing around on the freeway in 6th gear and it went from 70 to 100 faster than any car I've ever driven.

Very nice. It'll take you a few weeks to be able to check the gas mileage just cause you can't stop stomping on it. At least it has been for me. Mine has now been on the road for 5 days. I've been very impressed with the acceleration in 5th dispite the fact that the VSS stopped working yesterday. Car won't have the torque it should til I replace it. I'm still very happy.

Can't wait to hear those results. Later J