Got the LT1 out. Not to hard, pulled it in about 5 hours.



Here is the old Isuzu and the NEW MK7 Isuzu. The new one is for a 95-98 Sunfire. Same tranny except different ratios and different slave/throwout bearing setup.



This new tranny uses an internal slave./throwout bearing

My questions are.
Should I go with the new slave and master setup? or
Should I split the cases and use the Fiero external slave throw out bearing?
I want to split the case on the old Isuzu at least to see what kinda damage I did.

I cant seem to get the halves apart.. Can some one tell me how to do it? What am I missing? I dont want to pry on it because I may have to use the bellhousing.


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[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 05-01-2007).]

I wish I could answer your questions but I can't. Just to let you know your intake is on backwards. Just kidding I'm sure you knew. How did you do that with the intake I was thinking the same thing but I don't know how I'd get it to seal up? I checked the Haynes manual and nothing about how to split the trans case I'll call the tranny shop I go to tomorrow and see if they know.

I think you'll probably have to remove the whole detent assembly on the trans before you can split the case. Thats how the getrag works anyway, not sure where the access is to that stuff on the isuzu.

that throwout is sweet, VW does the same thing on the 02M 6 speed manual trans I work for VW and it is a proven setup and is pretty slick I say keep it!

Dan

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3800sc XP Hot Cam, Comp Pushrods, Comp Lifters, Stage 3 Blower,Ported Lower Manifold, N* Throttle Body, LS1 MAF, Ported Heads,.052 Cometic 4 Layer Headgaskets, Stage 2 ZZP Intercooler, 2.6 Pulley, SLP Headers. Elimislip Pulley Set up, 42.5 Lucas Injectors, Custom Tune! Ahhhhh.....yeah

I know others here has used that setup on newer FWD Getrags. I think it should be much better than the old one and then later you can change to a new FWD Getrag if you get one.

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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

Most definately keep the hydraulic throwout bearing... it does away with all the complications of the fiero clutch bleeding. I have been running one for a couple of years.

Thanx for all the input guys. I will stay with the NEW type slave. I really didn't want to crack open a brand new tranny.
I'm hoping that this throwout bearing/slave will mate up to my clutch alright. Does anybody know of any problems. I Havent got the new slave yet.

quote Originally posted by fresnofiero: I wish I could answer your questions but I can't. Just to let you know your intake is on backwards. Just kidding I'm sure you knew. How did you do that with the intake I was thinking the same thing but I don't know how I'd get it to seal up? I checked the Haynes manual and nothing about how to split the trans case I'll call the tranny shop I go to tomorrow and see if they know.

Clean surfaces and lots of RTV. The RTV must be allowed to setup before tightening down the bolts. I dont have a MAF sensor. This is a 96 LT1 running on a 95 OBD1 computer.


Bonzo

[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 04-27-2007).]

These hydraulic throwout bearings cost between $90 to $150 depending on model, so they are far from cheap.

Also, with the SBC application, there is more distance from the flywheel face to the surface of the hydraulic throwout bearing, so if you do not correct this, the first time you press the clutch it will over extend and result in purchasing another throwout bearing.

For my install I spaced the throwout bearing from the tranny to make up for the difference.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: These hydraulic throwout bearings cost between $90 to $150 depending on model, so they are far from cheap. Also, with the SBC application, there is more distance from the flywheel face to the surface of the hydraulic throwout bearing, so if you do not correct this, the first time you press the clutch it will over extend and result in purchasing another throwout bearing. For my install I spaced the throwout bearing from the tranny to make up for the difference.

Huge bit of info. I have read about blowing up these slave/throwouts. I figured it was from using the stock Fiero master and moving too much fluid. What master cylinder did you use? Do you have any more info on your setup? I asked in another thread for info on this setup and got no pertinent info.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/081184.html

Bonzo

[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 04-28-2007).]

I am running a wilwood 7/8" master (larger than needed) with the pedal travel reduced. It has been a couple of years, but the spacer was less than 1/2" and I am thinking it was around 0.4".

I am running a 93 Getrag with hydraulic throwout bearing. I will be pulling the trans to install a rebuilt tranny (3rd gear syncro bad) and a stage 3+ clutch in a few weeks (gotta get it back together for the Power Tour). I can take pictures once it is out if needed.

Got my slave/throwout bearing in today $115.


How far from the clutch should a throwout bearing sit? Just from some quick measurements it looks like this will be about 1/4 inch away. I have been told I might have to put in a spacer but I'm not sure how far to space it.

Bonzo

As the clutch wears, the pressure plate will get closer to the flywheel and the pressure plate fingers will get closer to the throwout bearing. It would be best to set the clearance with a used clutch to ensure enough room for clutch wear, without causing a preload due to insufficient clearance.

I set mine up with a new clutch and left about 1/8" clearance between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate fingers.

Looks like the new style is the second design, which is funny as I broke that style bracket, and swapped to the old style thinking it was the new and updated one.

Look at this pic, it is the same U shaped bracket like the MK7 has, only you can see where mine is cracked.

There is a little more info on this tranny in this thread.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/081184.html

Got the slave installed and the tranny mounted. I had modify the cable bracket a little.





I will be painting the intake black but I'm debating on painting the tranny.

Bonzo

[This message has been edited by bonzo (edited 05-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by bonzo: There is a little more info on this tranny in this thread. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/081184.html Got the slave installed and the tranny mounted. I had modify the cable bracket a little. I will be painting the intake black but I'm debating on painting the tranny. Bonzo

How do you mount the throttle stuff on the wrong end of the intake like that?? Could it possibly be done with a TPI setupe????

I think Archie has done a reverse TPI swap, I've seen it on the forum somewhere,

quote Originally posted by typhoon: How do you mount the throttle stuff on the wrong end of the intake like that?? Could it possibly be done with a TPI setupe????

The entire intake is reversed not the throttle body.

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Well so far adapting this slave to our car has been a chore. The 88 Fiero slave hydraulic coupling is metric and the MK7 slave is SAE. The Fiero is a 12mm X 1mm and the Mk7 slave is 1/4 . I have spent hours digging through brake adapter bins only to find out that 12mm isn't available. I am going to have to cut, reflare and put a SAE on to do this. I Will Make This Work.


Bonzo

quote Originally posted by typhoon: How do you mount the throttle stuff on the wrong end of the intake like that?? Could it possibly be done with a TPI setupe????

TPI has the distributor in the way.

Yes the TPI system on a SBC can be turned around. We've done a few of them.

The latest one we did was when we retrofitted TPI to my GT40.

On the GT40, because of the body & rear window design, you would have to turn the Tpi around for it to fit.



Doing this requires a "crab" sytle distributor, a crank trigger & a throttle body extension.

Archie

quote Originally posted by bonzo: Well so far adapting this slave to our car has been a chore. The 88 Fiero slave hydraulic coupling is metric and the MK7 slave is SAE. The Fiero is a 12mm X 1mm and the Mk7 slave is 1/4 . I have spent hours digging through brake adapter bins only to find out that 12mm isn't available. I am going to have to cut, reflare and put a SAE on to do this. I Will Make This Work. Bonzo

Just take the fiero line and cut the flare off as close to the end as possible. Then put an SAE nut on it and flare it. Then use female/female SAE coupler to attach the two. I will go and get some pics.



Just for reference purposes the 92-94 Getrag with internal slave (hydraulic throwout bearing) measures 2 3/8" from the bellhousing face to the face of the throwout bearing when fully compressed. On my SBC/Archie kit with a Spec Stage 3+ clutch, the distance from the bellhousing face to the tips of the clutch fingers is 2 1/8" - so there is about 1/4" clearance. I installed a 1/8" spacer behind the bearing.

The interesting thing is that when I had the spec stage 3 and a spec stage 2+ the fingers on the clutch required close to a 0.400" spacer. probably something different with the pressure plates...

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-25-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: Just take the fiero line and cut the flare off as close to the end as possible. Then put an SAE nut on it and flare it. Then use female/female SAE coupler to attach the two. I will go and get some pics. Just for reference purposes the 92-94 Getrag with internal slave (hydraulic throwout bearing) measures 2 3/8" from the bellhousing face to the face of the throwout bearing when fully compressed. On my SBC/Archie kit with a Spec Stage 3+ clutch, the distance from the bellhousing face to the tips of the clutch fingers is 2 1/8" - so there is about 1/4" clearance. I installed a 1/8" spacer behind the bearing. The interesting thing is that when I had the spec stage 3 and a spec stage 2+ the fingers on the clutch required close to a 0.400" spacer. probably something different with the pressure plates...

Thats the easy way. I used a junk flare tool and messed it up. You only have one chance with the Fiero braided hose. I ended up having to cut off the braided part and using ferrul type crimp. I converted it to SAE 45* and hooked it up. The motor is back in and about reddy for fire up. I'll take some pics this weekend.

Bonzo

Well she runs and runs great. I still have some final things to wrap up. The MK7 tranny shifts strong. I havent jumped on it real hard yet.



Bonzo

Nice work as usual Bonzo - I often wish I went for a manual conversion, maybe the 6-speed is in my future dependent on how long my built 4T60 lasts...
Were the LT1 fuel rail cover painted red to mimic LT4 or LS1 covers?
Although, they were probably like that when you bought the car...
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1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster Build)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

[This message has been edited by Fiero2m8 (edited 06-26-2007).]

It didn't have fuel rail covers and the intake was yellow. Here is what it looked like.



I painted them.

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I like it!!! Nice to see that it's running and working.
Hope to see it one of these days at one of the FL get togethers.
Keep us posted.
Have a Good One
Gary

This is all interesting, one question for the curious.

What is the other line for. Is that some kind of vent on the end of the other line?

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 09-24-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: This is all interesting, one question for the curious. What is the other line for. Is that some kind of vent on the end of the other line?

Probably used to bleed the air out of the system.

Yes, the 2nd line has the bleeder screw.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-24-2007).]

There are seven mods I had to make the MK7 tranny work in a Fiero.... from easiest to hardest...

1. Splice in the correct plug for the reverse switch
2. Adapt the hydraulic clutch line to go to the input line on the internal hydraulic release bearing.
3. Tap an untapped hole on the MK7 tranny so that you can bolt on the front tranny bracket mount.
4. Use a spacer with the hydraulic bearing or use a taller clutch (like an S-10 clutch)
5. Drill a new hole in the shift lever assembly off the Fiero tranny so that it can be properly mounted on the MK7 tranny. (or just bolt it on minus one bolt)
6. Buy and install a speed sensor signal interface box ($80 at Dakota Digital) so that your speedometer and computer won't freak out.
7. Severely modify the bracket that holds the shift cables on the transmission... or make one out of a piece of angle iron.


To answer a couple of questions....

Yes the CV axles interchange
Yes the stock Fiero master cylinder will work with the internal hydraulic release bearing. (I used one from an 85 4 cylinder fiero)

The MK7 has a smoother feel shifting from gear to gear. Otherwise it seems to be about the same. The gearing feels just a little more close ratio.

[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 05-06-2008).]

What are the gear ratios of the MK trans?

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 05-06-2008).]