Like a dumbass, I cleaned my engine with Gunk this past Sunday, rinsed it and let it dry until this morning. I started the car and it worked, let it run a few seconds and then put it in Reverse. Most cold mornings it might cut off when I do this, as it did today. But when I went to start it back up, it won't start.

It makes the CHR-RR-RR-RR sound, but won't kick in. Any suggestions?

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-02-2006).]

Welcome to the forum, Open up your distributor cap and other electric connectors/sensors, plug wires/boots, relays if needed--use a hair dryer, then spray with silcone or wd-40 around the distributor/sparks plug and wire areas--blow out excessive water in the sensor / connector areas. Plug holes/wires & boots are good for holding alot of water. Once you get it started keep it going with deck lid down to heat it up back there--you may have to clean off all the major battery/starter connections if they corrode..

If that dont do it, you may have gotten the cleaner into one of the sensors / connectors and messed it up or even the ignition module inside the distributor. Ive seen engines screw up immediately when guys sprayed armor all on engine parts to make them ' pretty '. Some that could be bad are throttle position sensor, MAT sensor, O2 sensor, or tach filter/ coil connector.

Thanks guys, I'll give that a shot when I get home today.

Last time I cleaned my engine, and decided against sealing everyting off. I soaked my aircleaner causing no air to make into the engine, hence not allowing it to start.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: Last time I cleaned my engine, and decided against sealing everyting off. I soaked my aircleaner causing no air to make into the engine, hence not allowing it to start.

What was the solution for that? Just letting it sit longer.

I have an update, I went back to my car last evening and went to start it up and IT STARTED!! Ran it for a while, but it seamed to want to cut out every once in a while. I just sat in the driveway reving it up and letting it idle. The RPM's were dropping around to the 400 mark and jumping back up where they usually sit at 1000. Then I cut it off without driving it anywhere. Went to start it back up and guess what. . . the same thing started happening. It would make the CHR-RR-RR-RR sound again and then nothing.
Here are some pictures for you guys to oogle over.

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-03-2006).]

Looks nice & clean now--but your going to have to take out all the plugs and distributor componets to make sure their dry, also check your map, mat, cts===idling up-n-down,

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Looks nice & clean now--but your going to have to take out all the plugs and distributor componets to make sure their dry, also check your map, mat, cts===idling up-n-down,

Hey 3800,

What do some of those acronyms stand for? I've got my Haynes Repair Manual out trying to keep up with you. :

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-03-2006).]

I would just check your air cleaner if its damp, just go ahead and replace it. Thats what I did. They take a really long time to dry out. And once they get wet it kind of ruins them anyway.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: I would just check your air cleaner if its damp, just go ahead and replace it. Thats what I did. They take a really long time to dry out. And once they get wet it kind of ruins them anyway.

Mr Luv,

What is the Air Cleaner? Can I get that at a Pep Boys, Advance Auto?

The cts is your coolant temp sensor located right above the water pump (yellow & black wire leading to it. The map is manifold air pressure located to the left of the thermo neck , (little black box with the green wire connector) bolted on to your top plentum (big sucker that says Fiero on top). Mat is your air temp, its located in your air box 2 wire lead.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help, I feel like an idiot here.

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-03-2006).]

No worries--just noticed pic # 3 right in front of or a fingers length from your thermo cap is your map sensor (little black box with the green lead wires into it) ....

Found it. I'm just taking my time and finding everything electrical and unpluggung it, drying it out, and plugging it back in.

Question about the Air Cleaner, it didn't seem damp, but the car still wouldn't start even when I had the Air Cleaner taken out. Does that mean it probably isn't the Air Cleaner?

The air cleaner is probally ok then--did you try removing the plugs yet?

I'm scared to try the back ones, but I'll definately remove the fronts, will I need a special socket for that?
It will take a while for me to post since I'm running back and forth between the car and the computer.

There's alot of electrical plugs on this damn engine

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-03-2006).]

I have also seen certain situations when cleaning engines that the water pressure will sometimes blow a connector off of a critical part or two. try checking for any disconnected wires anywhere. When it don't start try checking everything like check for fuel by looking into the throttle body. If there is fuel then check for spark, if there is spark, I would probably then check for spark on every cylindar to see if maybe a spark plug wire has been blown off (doubtful though cause it don't run rough when it does start) Check the distributer connectors and make sure they are clicked on nice and tight. What I would do to check spark, I know its not the most reliable but it is the easiest. Hook up a timing light to the car and put the inductor over each spark plug wire and crank the engine if the light flashes you are at least getting a spark down that cable. Also check that there isn't any water pooling on the spark plugs themselves that can in very rare circumstances cause the plugs to not fire by shorting them out. Other than that I'm out of ideas.

lol a little of topic but its so clean...i wish mine was that clean lol

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CLICK HERE FOR THE DEMONS MYSPACE PAGE

quote Originally posted by DEMONCHILD: lol a little of topic but its so clean...i wish mine was that clean lol

LOL. Yeah the $3.00 dollar engine killer. That's what they should call Gunk. I know it's my fault, but it would be impossible to cover all the electrical parts of this engine

Did you get the distributor cap off yet and dry ? The back plugs don`t need a special tool, you`ll be doing it mostly on feel instead of sight. If it helps any, you can remove the black air tube running to your throttle body and the battery to make room to get back there, standing in the trunk may help, or lay a board accross the top plentum then lay on that to reach to the rear plugs, on the back firewall nearest the glass, if your standing behind the car, the plugs run --looking from left to right 6 4 2 . You can grab the # 6 pretty easy from the drivers side and 4 & 2 from the pass-side. I`m pretty sure your just getting erratic spark, thats inconsistent due to the plugs, wires & distributor components.

I did open up the Distributor and it didn't look wet. Maybe I'll do that again and really blow that air in there. As for checking the spark plugs, do I have to take them out as well or just remove the wires and try and get it dry in there?

You can dry the tips first of the plugs and wires , then try again to start it, be carefull how much air you blow around the distributor parts, did you un plug the 2 connectors at the bottom of the distributor? One will lead to your coil, the other feeds back into the wire loom, these go bad on their own let alone water and gunk gets on them, try to look around and dry that area to. Lets say we`ll save the plugs coming out until last. This may help speed things up also, lets check to see if your coding anything from this:
https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes
just use a bent paper clip to ground the a&b terminals

I used plastic wrap to seal the sensors, dist. etc. Don't rinse too hard.

Since I like a clean engine (makes working on them sooo much nicer), I tend to clean my cars engine bays pretty regularly, and this situation occurs from time to time. The main culprit that prevents starting/running after rinsing with water is the plug wires. Water/moisture on the plug wires allows the 'spark' to short itself to parts of the engine other than the spark plugs. The fix is pretty easy: Go to the parts store, and buy a can of Silicone spray, and spray all of the plug wires, and the distributor cap. It disperses the water. I was always skeptical about this, until a more experienced tech demonstrated the phenomena. In the shop, we had a test engine on a stand (the kind that actually runs). He started it briefly...Ran fine. Got a spray bottle of water, sprayed all the plug wires and cap. No start, misfires. Then the really interesting part: We turned the lights in the shop off, and watched in the dark as he cranked the engine over: You could see the ignition sparks between the wires and any part of the engine that was close. Sprayed with silicone spray, and all was well again.

-Darryl

quote Originally posted by dsnover: Since I like a clean engine (makes working on them sooo much nicer), I tend to clean my cars engine bays pretty regularly, and this situation occurs from time to time. The main culprit that prevents starting/running after rinsing with water is the plug wires. Water/moisture on the plug wires allows the 'spark' to short itself to parts of the engine other than the spark plugs. The fix is pretty easy: Go to the parts store, and buy a can of Silicone spray, and spray all of the plug wires, and the distributor cap. It disperses the water. I was always skeptical about this, until a more experienced tech demonstrated the phenomena. In the shop, we had a test engine on a stand (the kind that actually runs). He started it briefly...Ran fine. Got a spray bottle of water, sprayed all the plug wires and cap. No start, misfires. Then the really interesting part: We turned the lights in the shop off, and watched in the dark as he cranked the engine over: You could see the ignition sparks between the wires and any part of the engine that was close. Sprayed with silicone spray, and all was well again. -Darryl

I did see something at Pep Boys next to the Starter Fluid that said it drys ignition systems and wires, it's probably the same thing. I'll get some.

3800superfast, have you heard of this or tried it before?

WD40 (blue and yellow can) will work fine. If you dont find anything obvious, your ignition module may be gone. If you hadnt washed it, the symtoms for a failing module are almost all the same as you describe. Its inside the distributor, costs between $25-80 depending on where you get one.

Stop everything. instead of chasing every dang sensor, why dosent someone take the logical aproach. First, when the car wont start, pull off a spark plug wire and use a spare spark plug or piece of metal, using thick rubber gloves, or pliers, hold the spark plug near the strut toer bolt, and have someone crank the car over, do you see a spark? If its just you, you can position the plug so its grounded on the strut tower bolt and then hop in and look out the back window to check and see if its sparking while you crank it.

If you have no spark, work backwards, to find the cause. Not all sensors will keep the car from running. The ignition module (located under the distributor cap, thing with spark plug wires coming from it) would be a good place to check the plugs on. both the 4 prong and the 2 prong. Then check both of your coil plugs, the coil is connected via one small spark plug wire on the distributor cap in the center. Both plugs on that should be dry.

Also check to see if your tach needle moves when cranking.

quote Originally posted by krackley:I did see something at Pep Boys next to the Starter Fluid that said it drys ignition systems and wires, it's probably the same thing. I'll get some. 3800superfast, have you heard of this or tried it before?

Iv`e seen it--wd 40 will do the same thing--it just doesn`t last as long. Tends to evaporate faster. If its been this many days now, you have a fire problem. Did you try pulling any codes yet ?

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Iv`e seen it--wd 40 will do the same thing--it just doesn`t last as long. Tends to evaporate faster. If its been this many days now, you have a fire problem. Did you try pulling any codes yet ?

No, I'm a complete virgin when it comes to pulling codes.

I've been back at work lately but I want to work on it this weekend. I tried it this morning and still no fire up.

quote Originally posted by krackley: No, I'm a complete virgin when it comes to pulling codes. I've been back at work lately but I want to work on it this weekend. I tried it this morning and still no fire up.

The info for pulling codes is in the link I put in the above post --all you need is a paper clip & a torx t-15 to take off the cigg lighter panel on your center consol, it explains the how to`s and what they mean in the link above, give a yell when you find something ... I think the no tach movement would indicate your ignition modual is shot. Or one of the distributor/ignition/components.

it would indicate a ****ed ignition module. I dobt that is your problem, as the car would not start/not/start/not with a bad ignition module. After this much time you should be good to go, just check the connections I mentioned above, and let us know.


DID YOU CHECK FOR SPARK YET?

It's been raining here in Virginia all day and through this weekend. I won't be doing any spark testing. But I will crawl into my Fiero and check for any codes. That link above is so easy, even I understood it

Thanks you guys!

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: it would indicate a ****ed ignition module. I dobt that is your problem, as the car would not start/not/start/not with a bad ignition module. After this much time you should be good to go, just check the connections I mentioned above, and let us know. DID YOU CHECK FOR SPARK YET?

Fiero modules are weird animals. Ive had one just instantly die for good with no warning and others would quit and start up, run fine for another few days and quit again. Ive had them die, take them across the street to Autozone and have them test fine, put it back in start up and go 2 miles and quit again.

If you need a igniton modual I have a few GM ones here that are good. My neigbor junks cars for a living and if he gets a GM car I always pull the ignition moduals and coils off every running car.
With shipping to you and the part $10.00, if you are interested PM me or e-mail me your address.

You could try some starting fuild, spary just a little in the intake and turn over. If water got in the engine it well help dry it out.Get at any auto parts store.

quote Originally posted by chopfren-z: You could try some starting fuild, spary just a little in the intake and turn over. If water got in the engine it well help dry it out.Get at any auto parts store.

Yeah, I did that. Talked about it a couple post before this one. The first time I sprayed it in, it started up. Then after I turned it off, it wouldn't start up again, even when I used the Starter Fluid.

I'll check the codes today. I also might take you up on your offer OH10fiero!