Sure thing, my e-mail has changed to oh10scott@hotmail.com, if you need one.

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: You can dry the tips first of the plugs and wires , then try again to start it, be carefull how much air you blow around the distributor parts, did you un plug the 2 connectors at the bottom of the distributor? One will lead to your coil, the other feeds back into the wire loom, these go bad on their own let alone water and gunk gets on them, try to look around and dry that area to. Lets say we`ll save the plugs coming out until last. This may help speed things up also, lets check to see if your coding anything from this: https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes just use a bent paper clip to ground the a&b terminals

Okay guys, the latest update. I pulled the codes this morning. Here's what I got 32, 32, 32, 45, 45, 45. Let me explain where the 32's may be coming from. When I had a tune up (using the Fiero Store Kit) done at Midas, I've had the Service Engine light come on 3 times, the 45's could be my issue, but I'll let you big brains think about that. After I pulled the codes, I decided to see if it would start. Surprise, it started again. I let it run for about 10 minutes. When it first started, it wouldn't idle very well. But after a few minutes, it started purring with the RPM's reading at 1000. I decided to take it for a drive around the block and it up and cut off on me

After that, I decided to walk back to the house and post this. Can I get some of these parts at a local GM parts store like Napa or something? Rather than waiting for Fiero Store to deliver them.

Thanks!

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[This message has been edited by raph130 (edited 03-15-2007).]

Code 45 , could be alot of the things listed below, I would rule out the injectors and some of the other things. The tps, map, line to regulator, all hoses and lines could be a cause . You don`t want a bosch 02 sensor, use a ACDELCO Part # AFS20, take my word on this one. Don`t remember if you mentioned the year --so I shot for the middle...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1249107,parttype,5132

Sensor - Rich Exhaust
The ECM will set code 45 when the ECM detects a high voltage from the oxygen sensor, throttle is applied and the system is operating in Closed Loop (conditions must exist for longer than 50 seconds and engine must be running for at least 1 minute).

Check the oxygen sensor and replace if necessary.

Check fuel pressure. The system will go rich if the fuel pressure is too high.

Check for rich injectors.

Check for leaking injectors.

Check for fuel contamination (specifically for contamination with oil).

Check for proper ignition module shielding. If the ignition module is not properly shielded, the ECM might mistake the electro-magnetic interference for reference pulses, causing too much fuel to be delivered to the system.

Check the canister purge for fuel. If full, check canister control and hoses.

Check the MAP sensor. If the ECM detects a lower than normal vacuum then this will cause the system to go rich. Disconnect the MAP sensor. If the rich condition goes away, then a problem exists with the MAP sensor.

Check for leaking fuel pressure regulator by checking the vacuum line to the regulator for fuel.

Check TPS. An irregular TPS output will cause the system to go rich due to a false indication of accelerating.

When you turn the ignition to the on position are you able to hear the fuel pump prime the system? If it wasn't mentioned earlier unplug the pump relay ( one of the two relays on the firewall near the air filter canister) and check the plugs for corrosion, I have had that happen before. Otherwise follow the basic diagnostic procedure mentioned earlier. If the engine cranks but will not run there are 3 major possibilities for starters: Insufficient fuel delivery, Insufficient spark, or a mechanical failure. I say insufficient because you can have a weak spark or pump that will pass the visual/sound test such as a yellow spark which many don't know is low energy and may not start the engine or a working fuel pump that can't supply enough pressure.

I've experienced all of those and it's no fun if you don't have a clue. You can also try starting the car in the dark and observing the engine for any dislocated spark, I had a tachometer filter get out of place and ground on the engine, if the spark grounding to the engine wasn't as strong as it was I may never have found it.

If you mean that humming sound that I hear from the console? I've heard people refer to that before and I do hear something turning on when I turn the key to the start position. Then after a few seconds, it stops. Is that normal?

Yes, it should also cycle when you are cranking the car though you may not be able to hear it, if it's not it should be and that would be a sign of an ignition system problem because the computer confirms spark in order to supply continuous fuel to the engine while running.

quote Originally posted by krackley: If you mean that humming sound that I hear from the console? I've heard people refer to that before and I do hear something turning on when I turn the key to the start position. Then after a few seconds, it stops. Is that normal?

If your cars sits for a period of time the fuel leaks back down to the gas tank, the sound you hear is your fuel pump priming the system so there is fuel at the injectors at start up.

Did you verify that the tach does not read zero when the car just cranks but will not start?

[This message has been edited by Rrazzz (edited 10-10-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Rrazzz: Did you verify that the tach does not read zero when the car just cranks but will not start?

No, the tach doesn't read zero. Forgot to mention that.

Yes, thats the right part # for your 02 sensor, if you have a auto-zone handy , tell them you want to rent their 02 sensor removal kit--it was 15.00 here, I just kept the kit, or you can return it for the full amount.

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Yes, thats the right part # for your 02 sensor, if you have a auto-zone handy , tell them you want to rent their 02 sensor removal kit--it was 15.00 here, I just kept the kit, or you can return it for the full amount.

Thanks 3800superfast! (just gave you a +)

I'm going to start by replacing this and see where that leads. By the way, I got the car to start again yesterday and drove it back to my house. Then, turned off the ignition and tried to start it again. Same thing happened, no turn over.

I've got another basic question, my Volt light comes on everytime I start up the car (even back when everything worked) and once I put it in drive and start moving, it goes off and the meter reads normal. Any idea what that might be? Is this part of my situation?

Thanks again for all your help

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-11-2006).]

quote Originally posted by krackley: Thanks 3800superfast! (just gave you a +) I'm going to start by replacing this and see where that leads. By the way, I got the car to start again yesterday and drove it back to my house. Then, turned off the ignition and tried to start it again. Same thing happened, no turn over. I've got another basic question, my Volt light comes on everytime I start up the car (even back when everything worked) and once I put it in drive and start moving, it goes off and the meter reads normal. Any idea what that might be? Is this part of my situation? Thanks again for all your help

Start checking your electrical system.
Find a place that will do a free test on your alt to see if it is charging properly, and also have them do a load test on your battery to see if its holding a charge. All your problems now seem to be pointing to a dead cell in the battery, hard starts and such, Advance Auto parts can do a free test while everything is in the car. And before I forget, inspect the belts to see if they are not falling apart or if they have the correct tension on them.
Still get the O2 changed, if you do not know the age of the part that is one that is good to change out.

[This message has been edited by OH10fiero (edited 10-11-2006).]

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Start checking your electrical system. Find a place that will do a free test on your alt to see if it is charging properly, and also have them do a load test on your battery to see if its holding a charge. All your problems now seem to be pointing to a dead cell in the battery, hard starts and such, Advance Auto parts can do a free test while everything is in the car. And before I forget, inspect the belts to see if they are not falling apart or if they have the correct tension on them. Still get the O2 changed, if you do not know the age of the part that is one that is good to change out.

The best I'll be able to do is take the battery in somewhere. Since my car didn't go more than a block or two in my neighborhood before it cut off, I'm scared to drive it anywhere. At least I can check the battery.

If you have a multi-meter or can get one, put the red on positive and black on negative, on your battery posts--while the battery is still in the car, (engine off) it should read, 12.2-5 or higher (a hair lower than 12.0 is ok). Now do the same thing as above--this time engine started, it should read 14.4-5 volts , somewhere in that area, now have someone turn on the head lights, a/c push brake pedal, (simulated load) see how far it drops, and note it. Post what you find.. Also as OH10fiero said check those belts and tension--grap the belt with your hand, it should only be able to do a 1/2 of twist, if not time to tighten them up. Look at all your batt cables and wires/grounds for rust/corrosion, look in the C-500 block terminals for rust as well--don`t poke around in there unless you disconect the battery first, C-500 ===(big ball of wires) on passanger side by the battery, under your 1/4 window...

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: If you have a multi-meter or can get one, put the red on positive and black on negative, on your battery posts--while the battery is still in the car, (engine off) it should read, 12.2-5 or higher (a hair lower than 12.0 is ok). Now do the same thing as above--this time engine started, it should read 14.4-5 volts , somewhere in that area, now have someone turn on the head lights, a/c push brake pedal, (simulated load) see how far it drops, and note it. Post what you find.. Also as OH10fiero said check those belts and tension--grap the belt with your hand, it should only be able to do a 1/2 of twist, if not time to tighten them up. Look at all your batt cables and wires/grounds for rust/corrosion, look in the C-500 block terminals for rust as well--don`t poke around in there unless you disconect the battery first, C-500 ===(big ball of wires) on passanger side by the battery, under your 1/4 window...

Forgot about corrosion on the battery poat, thanks for covering my a$$ on that one, so used to cleaning mine twice a year as part of regular car maintainance.
Side note on belt tenson, if you are not famliar with with (by feel) of what the correct tension should be you might want to have someone you trust do that for you. Improper tension can lead to other problems, too little will wipeout a belt and cause squealing (epecially when the belt is wet), too much will wipe out the bearings in your water pump. It does take a few times to get a "feel" for what is right, nothing difficult to learn in anyway, just part of learning about your car.

I would be willing to bet that it is the ignition module.

The link below is a spark checker from JC whitney...but you can pick these up for about $10 or less at any autoparts store and I think even sears.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2004214&TID=101&productId=2004214&catalogId=10101
------------------
--Dillon

Green 1987 GT 5spd
Black 1986 SE V6 Auto - 3800SC Swap in Progress
"And this one time, on the Fiero Forum..."

[This message has been edited by DJRice (edited 10-13-2006).]

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Yes, thats the right part # for your 02 sensor, if you have a auto-zone handy , tell them you want to rent their 02 sensor removal kit--it was 15.00 here, I just kept the kit, or you can return it for the full amount.

I've got the O2 sensor and will be heading out to AutoZone to rent their O2 sensor kit ($14.99). My only question is the O2 sensor installation intructions mention using a torque wrench and to tighten it to a torque of 38-46 Newton Meters (28-34 lb. ft.) Have you ever heard of that?

[This message has been edited by krackley (edited 10-14-2006).]

02 sensor should be tightened to 30 lbs, if you don`t have a torque wrench , you can just tighten it until its snug in there, remember to use some anti-sieze on the threads, it may have a little on it allready. Their kit will only let you get it so tight--once you start to install it , you`ll see what I mean.. No need to over kill it--just snug it up real well, also make sure you have the conector in solid too.

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: 02 sensor should be tightened to 30 lbs, if you don`t have a torque wrench , you can just tighten it until its snug in there, remember to use some anti-sieze on the threads, it may have a little on it allready. Their kit will only let you get it so tight--once you start to install it , you`ll see what I mean.. No need to over kill it--just snug it up real well, also make sure you have the conector in solid too.

Can not stress enough the anti-sieze, but you beat me to the post lol. You will understand in the future when you go to remove a part or have to replace it when you reflect back many years thinking to yourself that it was much harder (near impossible) to remove the old old compared to how easy it is to remove the one you did. Most auto stores sell the stuff in either a jar or a tube, and cost around $5.00 or so depending on size. The more you work on cars the more you will learn to love the stuff.

ACDELCO Part # D1960A
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1249129,parttype,7172

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: If your going to buy a ignition modual--you don`t want one from auto zone, you want an ac/delco or gm modual.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, I was going to check if they had the "ignition tester" there, not the Ignition Modual. Should I order the Ignition Module from Rock Auto as well?

Oppsss, no , I would take your old one in and have them test it first, make sure they test it 3 or so times... Then if needed get a new one....

Just to keep things properly focused, a bad (or missing) O2 sensor will not cause a no-start problem. The O2 sesnor affects engine operation only in closed-loop mode.

Everything posted so far points to a problem somewhere in the ignition system ... ignition module, pickup coil, distributor rotor and cap, spark coil, etc. For what it's worth, an "ignition tester" may or may not properly diagnose a bad ignition module.

Finally, don't blame Gunk for the problem. The problem is a result of careless or improper use of the Gunk or, more likely, careless application of high pressure rinse water ... allowing it to penetrate into places it shouldn't be.

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Oppsss, no , I would take your old one in and have them test it first, make sure they test it 3 or so times... Then if needed get a new one....

My old ingnition module?

Everything looks good by the shown photos, you can just clean the pins on the ignition module to see if that helps, since it is out have it tested. And yes the inside of the distrbutior will get some surface rust over time, you can clean that up as well. Your real problem is when you see rust build up in there, thats when you have an issue that needs to be addresed, by the way you have an after market distibutor, these are 10X's more reliable than stock.
Before I forget, the paste on the bottom of the module needs to be there, you can pick up a tube of it at Radio Shack, have yet to see the stuff sold at a auto store. It is a heat sink paste, do not put teh module back on with out it or you WILL be replaceing it in short order.

[This message has been edited by OH10fiero (edited 10-14-2006).]

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Everything looks good by the shown photos, you can just clean the pins on the ignition module to see if that helps, since it is out have it tested. And yes the inside of the distrbutior will get some surface rust over time, you can clean that up as well. Your real problem is when you see rust build up in there, thats when you have an issue that needs to be addresed, by the way you have an after market distibutor, these are 10X's more reliable than stock. Before I forget, the paste on the bottom of the module needs to be there, you can pick up a tube of it at Radio Shack, have yet to see the stuff sold at a auto store. It is a heat sink paste, do not put teh module back on with out it or you WILL be replaceing it in short order.

Thanks OH10fiero,

I will take the module to get it tested and clean the pins as well. Did you say the Distributor was a good choice? It came with the Fiero Store Tune-up Kit, it included the Distributor Cap, Rotor, AC Delco Sparkplugs (a favorite around here) and STI wires.

Look at the last pic of the coil--tell me what you see wrong in that pic... While you have the ignition modual off, it would be a good time to go have it tested (have them do the test a couple 3 times) even though it looks good, the water/gunk could have damaged it along with other parts/sensors/ect. I thought the car started --but will quit on you? Look at that last pic.... This is refering to the spark your asking about, yes this would be a good time to start there also. I can`t remember if you tried fuel in the throttle body yet --while trying to get it started before? That 02 sensor may not be why the car won`t start --but would explain why it runs like hell , once you get it going, you misewell change it now, use the kit, PB-Blaster, hrs ahead of time, put a small cheater bar on the end of your ratchet, it will come out, just takes a little time...

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Look at the last pic of the coil--tell me what you see wrong in that pic... While you have the ignition modual off, it would be a good time to go have it tested (have them do the test a couple 3 times) even though it looks good, the water/gunk could have damaged it along with other parts/sensors/ect. I thought the car started --but will quit on you? Look at that last pic.... This is refering to the spark your asking about, yes this would be a good time to start there also. I can`t remember if you tried fuel in the throttle body yet --while trying to get it started before? That 02 sensor may not be why the car won`t start --but would explain why it runs like hell , once you get it going, you misewell change it now, use the kit, PB-Blaster, hrs ahead of time, put a small cheater bar on the end of your ratchet, it will come out, just takes a little time...

I don't notice anything wrong with the coil. But I don't know what I'm looking for.

I will have the Module tested. I also did try starter fluid in the TB and it started, but it didn't start after the first time. I understand about the O2 sensor, I'll wait on that for a while. Can you buy cheater bars?

quote Originally posted by 3800superfast: Look at the last pic of the coil--tell me what you see wrong in that pic... While you have the ignition modual off, it would be a good time to go have it tested (have them do the test a couple 3 times) even though it looks good, the water/gunk could have damaged it along with other parts/sensors/ect. I thought the car started --but will quit on you? Look at that last pic.... This is refering to the spark your asking about, yes this would be a good time to start there also. I can`t remember if you tried fuel in the throttle body yet --while trying to get it started before? That 02 sensor may not be why the car won`t start --but would explain why it runs like hell , once you get it going, you misewell change it now, use the kit, PB-Blaster, hrs ahead of time, put a small cheater bar on the end of your ratchet, it will come out, just takes a little time...

Not sure what you mean by most of this myself, could you please explain in more detail, not sure what you are refering to in the last pic.
Also Krackly, what brand module do you have in there? if it is anything but GM I would just replace it even if it test good. If you do a search on ignition modules here on the forum you will find that they all have something in common, only the GM modules that got over heated due to exhaust problems or car running lean had a problem, while all after market brands just did not work.

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Not sure what you mean by most of this myself, could you please explain in more detail, not sure what you are refering to in the last pic. Also Krackly, what brand module do you have in there? if it is anything but GM I would just replace it even if it test good. If you do a search on ignition modules here on the forum you will find that they all have something in common, only the GM modules that got over heated due to exhaust problems or car running lean had a problem, while all after market brands just did not work.

Are you saying I should get a GM? The existing one is an AC Delco, I googled the part # D1978.

quote Originally posted by krackley: Are you saying I should get a GM? The existing one is an AC Delco, I googled the part # D1978.

AC Delco would be more like a factory replacement, what I should have said was the aftermarket for these parts are very poor, but anything that the dealer would sell is acceptable. GM, AC Delco, Morpar, Ford, these are the names you want on the part before you replace something on any car no matter what you work on with the big three, everything else is almost a crapshot unless you are talkin street/strip parts then you get into a whole new ball game.
But like 3800 said have them test the module a few times just to be on the safe side, I have tested these parts bad but they then worked on a car, tested them again and they tested fine. Bottom line is unless everything is hooked up perfect you run the chance of a incorrect reading.

Just an update, I had AutoZone test out the module 8 times (just to make sure). And it passed every time. I did buy a wire tester and I will use that sometime this week.

Thanks for all the input guys.

On step closer to what the main cause is.
In the third picture down, inspect the pick up-coil, that will be the part with the two wires (green and white) with the red clip. The coiled part and condition of the wires are what you need to be inspecting inparticular. This part is subjected to a lot of heat and the protective heat tape, sometimes between age and heat, deteariates away leaving the copper coils exposed. Now I have had pick up-coils that have had that tape missing and they worked fine for years on the car, but it does not help in the long run and needs to be concidared as part of your problem. I do not know of any way to test one of these so hopefully soemone here can walk you trough on if it is possible, replacing one is not that hard and a good quality replacement is only around $8.00.