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Paint Prep Help by grsychckn
Started on: 10-29-2007 09:59 AM
Replies: 19
Last post by: BigB on 10-31-2007 07:20 PM
grsychckn
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Report this Post10-29-2007 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
I assume most people who frequent the board have seen my build thread. A few months ago I got engaged and we've set the date to Jan 26th. What's really cool is that my fiance wants to use the fiero to drive away from the church/reception which puts a lot of pressure on me to get it road-worthy before then. I've managed to get it running and drivable, but now comes the hard part of figuring out what to do with the paint.

When I purchased the car, the previous owner had repainted it (very poor job btw) a slightly different shade than the original medium metallic red. I want to repaint it back to that red and my roommate has a friend willing to let us use his paint booth to do so. My problem is in paint prep as I have no experience or equipment with bodywork of any kind.

I'm at a decision point of attempting to repaint the car or leave it as is until after the wedding. I have enough money to purchase the paint and some supplies, but really the most limited resource is my time. With the wedding coming up, I'm also trying to house search for a move that will take place mid-December. My hope is that I can get someone from this forum to give me a hand with the prep work maybe a couple days (on the weekend) between now and mid-December. I assume the weather will be worse the longer I wait - so the sooner the better. And not to be picky, but I really need someone who has experience with this work before.

I'd be willing to pay for the help (how much I don't know, but negotiable). If you think you can, either PM me or e-mail me. Thanks!
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-29-2007 08:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
speed....bump
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Report this Post10-29-2007 09:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
If its just got a bad paint job, all you need to do is sand it till its all dull, sand out any scratches or chips. Check some of your local Maaco jobs and if there good enough, pay them the $200 to shoot it. Thats the best bang for the buck. Good paint alone will cost more than that to do yourself. Id just dry sand it with 360 or 400 grit at most and prob most could be done with red scotchbrite pad. I can scotchbrite an entire car for a quick paint job in a few hours, another few hours to mask. I did my corvette completely with graphics over a long weekend including color sanding and buffing.
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-29-2007 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

If its just got a bad paint job, all you need to do is sand it till its all dull, sand out any scratches or chips. Check some of your local Maaco jobs and if there good enough, pay them the $200 to shoot it. Thats the best bang for the buck. Good paint alone will cost more than that to do yourself. Id just dry sand it with 360 or 400 grit at most and prob most could be done with red scotchbrite pad. I can scotchbrite an entire car for a quick paint job in a few hours, another few hours to mask. I did my corvette completely with graphics over a long weekend including color sanding and buffing.


I might give that a shot, but I'd like to take the time I need in order to make it as nice as I can without obsessing. I'd take it somewhere here to have painted, but the labor rates alone would bring a $3000 job up to about $8000 since labor is around $100/hour now. Buying the paint won't be too bad as my roommate paints wheels for a living and has connections with a couple paint distributors in the area. With easy access to the paint and a paint booth, I was hoping to prep the car while it's at home and remove each panel and have it painted seperately so that I don't have overspray (or less masking) and I ensure to get all the hard to reach spots evenly. For someone who is willing to help me and has experience with Fieros, I'd be willing to pay a fair price - as my time is in short supply.
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Report this Post10-30-2007 01:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
You have the right idea about doing it right; taking it apart. But... unless you have really good help & lots of time you'd better wait untill after the wedding. You'll have to strip all the non-factory paint off, & that alone will be time consuming. Do a search & you'll find lots of threads about stripping & painting.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Not sure where we're going but, no sense in being late!
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BigB
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Report this Post10-30-2007 02:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for BigBSend a Private Message to BigBDirect Link to This Post
"make it as nice as I can without obsessing"

Again i'd have to agree with roger (that's twice now). Unless your existing paint job is peeling, it will most likely simply need a slight sanding to even things out and provide a stickable surface. Afterward take the panels off the frame, do a slight sanding to your now available corners, a quick clean and away to the paint booth you go. BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR ROOF!!! I'm 2 out of 3 on this and i cannot say what a beast it is to get off. I dare say i have done my last one. If it is your buddy's booth, maybe leave it on, remove the triming around the window for painting and leave it at that. You can remove the rear clip with it on anyway.

Good luck.
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-30-2007 08:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BigB:

"make it as nice as I can without obsessing"

Again i'd have to agree with roger (that's twice now). Unless your existing paint job is peeling, it will most likely simply need a slight sanding to even things out and provide a stickable surface. Afterward take the panels off the frame, do a slight sanding to your now available corners, a quick clean and away to the paint booth you go. BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR ROOF!!! I'm 2 out of 3 on this and i cannot say what a beast it is to get off. I dare say i have done my last one. If it is your buddy's booth, maybe leave it on, remove the triming around the window for painting and leave it at that. You can remove the rear clip with it on anyway.

Good luck.


Well, I may go ahead and do it that way then. I do have a few areas where the existing paint is peeling, but if I remember correctly it's on the bumper which I'm replacing anyway. Regardless, I'll do a thourough check for peeling on the other panels. I may try to get some of the prep work done this weekend. Thanks for the help.

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Tha Driver
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Report this Post10-30-2007 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by grsychckn:


Well, I may go ahead and do it that way then. I do have a few areas where the existing paint is peeling, but if I remember correctly it's on the bumper which I'm replacing anyway. Regardless, I'll do a thourough check for peeling on the other panels. I may try to get some of the prep work done this weekend. Thanks for the help.


Yeah, right. You have paint peeling & you're going to paint over that paintjob. I'm sorry but that's why I don't paint over old paintjobs unless I just don't care about the car (it's a beater anyway), & then I just don't paint it. Paint is far too expensive & it's far too time comsuming to do it *right* to have to then go back in a few months & strip not only the old paint off but the shtuff you just put on to boot. Do you even know what kind of paint is on the car? Was it primed before painting? I prime everything with epoxy to make *sure* it's sealed & will stick well after thorough prepping.
If you don't care if it peels or retains the shine more than a year or so then take it to Maaco (for real). Heck they'll clear-coat for a few extra bucks & the shine will last longer (might still peel). If you *do* care, do it right the *first* time.
Of course, this is why I've never made any money painting. Shops that do the quick jobs (we call that a "scuff & douche") make *very* good money, but the jobs just don't last as long.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Scientists say we only use 20% of our brains. But if they're only using 20%, how would they know?

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 10-30-2007).]

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Tha Driver
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Report this Post10-30-2007 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post

Tha Driver

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BTW I wouldn't pull off the roof panel either. In fact I'd leave both roof panels on, as they're a real pain to pull: you can get excellent results without all that trouble. No use in being "obsessive". ;D
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

I checked today and... this is the oldest I've ever been.
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-30-2007 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:


Yeah, right. You have paint peeling & you're going to paint over that paintjob. I'm sorry but that's why I don't paint over old paintjobs unless I just don't care about the car (it's a beater anyway), & then I just don't paint it. Paint is far too expensive & it's far too time comsuming to do it *right* to have to then go back in a few months & strip not only the old paint off but the shtuff you just put on to boot. Do you even know what kind of paint is on the car? Was it primed before painting? I prime everything with epoxy to make *sure* it's sealed & will stick well after thorough prepping.
If you don't care if it peels or retains the shine more than a year or so then take it to Maaco (for real). Heck they'll clear-coat for a few extra bucks & the shine will last longer (might still peel). If you *do* care, do it right the *first* time.
Of course, this is why I've never made any money painting. Shops that do the quick jobs (we call that a "scuff & douche") make *very* good money, but the jobs just don't last as long.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Scientists say we only use 20% of our brains. But if they're only using 20%, how would they know?



Good points, which is why I want to get someone with Fiero painting experience to give me a hand. The last paint job it had must not have been primed, because where it's peeling, I'm seeing the original paint underneath. I don't know what kind of paint they used to re-paint with. So I'm assuming that since no primer *seems* to have been used, that I should remove as much of this crappy paint job as I can before I even begin the prep work on the paint underneath?

Eh, screw it - I guess I'll try to take it to a paint shop and see what real estimates I get for all the work to be done. Seems to me like I'm in over my head.
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Report this Post10-30-2007 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Wii BirdClick Here to visit Wii Bird's HomePageSend a Private Message to Wii BirdDirect Link to This Post
I live in Nova Scotia, Canada I went to Maaco Collision & Repair to get a price on a simple, basic paint job. My front bumper is all spider cracked, and there is a chip on the front hood that is right threw to the body. He quoted me $2000.00+. After thinking about it my dad has painted cars before years ago. We both can use Bondo/Body Repair Supplies. So we are going to paint it ourselves this winter.
I strongly recommed NOT taking off the roof panel, I took the one off my 1984 Fiero Parts car, and it snapped on the front column, that is until the members on here recommend a Windshield Removal Tool, and that solved the problem.
Personally, I would experiment with painting to yourself. I have guessed around $900.00 to paint it myself which saves me $1100.00+ to do other things to my Fiero.... Which are going to be a hood scoop, side scoops.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post10-30-2007 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I might have misunderstood, but I took it as he wanted it to look decent for as cheap and quick as possible. Taking one apart and painting it piece by piece is not cheap nor fast. I did a Packard from the 30s (I think) like that and it cost the proud owner nearly $40K. and about 6 months. Lots of custom one-off replica parts made by hand.
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Report this Post10-30-2007 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageSend a Private Message to bmwguruDirect Link to This Post
Don't ask my opinion of DIY paint and prep. I almost needed anger management classes after trying to do my own body work. My problem is that it is never good enough. I gave up and trailered it over to a local body shop. No more anger issues
Dave

------------------

450hp 1987 Fiero GT, 1986 Fiero SE, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

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Report this Post10-30-2007 03:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

Don't ask my opinion of DIY paint and prep. I almost needed anger management classes after trying to do my own body work. My problem is that it is never good enough. I gave up and trailered it over to a local body shop. No more anger issues
Dave



LOL! Like i said in your thread, nothing like having someone paint the car themselves to realize what a pain-in-the-arse it really is (if they want it done right), especially if it needs to be stripped first. Makes them appreciate a $3500 + price tag.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

"James Lewis - get away from that wheelbarrow; you know you don't know nutin' 'bout machinery!"
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-30-2007 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
BTW, I never intended on trying to remove the roof. I understand that very bad things can happen...

Well, I've decided I'm going to get a couple new body panels anyway. I've got a used driver's side door panel on it's way (original med. metallic red), new wide fenders from Fiero Warehouse, and trying to get a pair of either Aus's Stage 2s or Dietmars scoops. That leaves the GT rear clip, decklid, hood, roof, rockers, and passenger's side door panel with the old paint I'll need to prep. I assume the original door panel won't be that difficult, nor will the new pieces I'm getting. I'm also going to get an estimate for the panels from a local paint shop given I remove all but the roof. That might help drop the cost down a bit - at least I hope.

I found a place nearby work where they only charge $40/hour for labor, so I might just get lucky with this. I will update when I get more info.
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Report this Post10-30-2007 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageSend a Private Message to bmwguruDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:


LOL! Like i said in your thread, nothing like having someone paint the car themselves to realize what a pain-in-the-arse it really is (if they want it done right), especially if it needs to be stripped first. Makes them appreciate a $3500 + price tag.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

"James Lewis - get away from that wheelbarrow; you know you don't know nutin' 'bout machinery!"


So far, I'm over $4,500 with them and it isn't even painted yet.
Dave

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post10-31-2007 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
I charge nearly double for a taken apart car, even if I dont take it apart or put it together myself. Takes up to twice the material, and takes up 2 complete stalls. I charge my rate per stall per day. I wont even touch a motorcycle, takes more paint than a station wagon...75% goes into the air.
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grsychckn
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Report this Post10-31-2007 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for grsychcknSend a Private Message to grsychcknDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I charge nearly double for a taken apart car, even if I dont take it apart or put it together myself. Takes up to twice the material, and takes up 2 complete stalls. I charge my rate per stall per day. I wont even touch a motorcycle, takes more paint than a station wagon...75% goes into the air.


Wow, thanks - that makes a big difference. I'm going to take some pictures to the shop tomorrow morning and see what they tell me. BTW, +s for you all.
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Report this Post10-31-2007 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CurlrupSend a Private Message to CurlrupDirect Link to This Post
What Roger said....he gave me some pointers on my car. I was going for "looks better than it did" paint job. So I Red Scotch Brighted the old clear masked and left the panels on. I did the whole car in one weekend. I would not suggest doing it in one weekend like I did. I made some mistakes that could have been avaoided if I had more time but I had the booth for one weekend, and I had to drive it to work that Monday. Overall the paint was $600, (I use PPG every day at work on other things so I got a discount). Here is the pic.



Yes that is flip paint. I use a flip flake additive at work so they let me borrow an ounce. I used a half of an ounce and it popped that much. A little goes a long way. Anyway doing it yourself can be frustrating but you get a nice sense of accomplishment. Just remember your paint job is only as good as your prep work.
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Report this Post10-31-2007 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BigBSend a Private Message to BigBDirect Link to This Post
Well, much has been said since early this morning ... but peeling paint is a key word which changes everything. Based on your initial posting of basically a bad paint job, peeling did not enter into the equation. If you have peeling, then you need to get down to the original layer - but don't get too deep.

Regarding the actual paint job - there is a whole lot-o-money in the prep so the more you do the less the final price. I've had a price for both prep'd and not (on an original paint job) and the price doubles. As for me and 'Ol Blu, I'll be prepping & dismantling but be having an expert to the actual shooting. (2 Stage)
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