Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  LA1 3400 Would this be a good swap?

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


LA1 3400 Would this be a good swap? by JumpStart
Started on: 09-28-2007 03:19 PM
Replies: 14
Last post by: Joseph Upson on 09-28-2007 07:38 PM
JumpStart
Member
Posts: 1412
From: Central Florida
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
I am asking this because my son has decided that he wants to join the Fiero Addiction. Most of the stock Fieros will need attention to the engine sooner or even sooner so I was looking for idea on a 4 or 6 cylinder swap that would be the easiest done using a late model (00-07) that would work. I am now working on a 3800sc swap for mine but this being his first car, has no need for that much power and im not up to doing two swaps that are this involved. I had read on here about using the 3400 but I dont think they were refering to the one from the mid '90s Cameros. What about the LA1 3400? Also is there a late model 4 cylinder that would hook up with little or no mods?

Thanks, Steve
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
futurefiero
Member
Posts: 21
From: borgloon belgium
Registered: Mar 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for futurefieroClick Here to Email futurefieroSend a Private Message to futurefieroDirect Link to This Post
the LA1 fits but needs a custom mount on the front of the engine mount(pulley side).
it's a good engine..just be aware of the intake gaskets !
those tend to leak and cause serious damage to the engine.

just my 2cts...
IP: Logged
goatnipples2002
Member
Posts: 2055
From: Bellevue,Ne.
Registered: Jul 2005


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 112
Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for goatnipples2002Click Here to visit goatnipples2002's HomePageClick Here to Email goatnipples2002Send a Private Message to goatnipples2002Direct Link to This Post
Why not just swap in a 3800 NA...so he can get used to that and later add a 3800sc
IP: Logged
JumpStart
Member
Posts: 1412
From: Central Florida
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
I did read something on here about gasket problems from the factory. If that is the case then im sure someone sells a better aftermarket set that fixes this problem.

A mount and a set of gaskets would easily qualify as an easy swap. Thanks

Any more input? or any 4 cylinders?

Thanks , Steve
IP: Logged
futurefiero
Member
Posts: 21
From: borgloon belgium
Registered: Mar 2007


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for futurefieroClick Here to Email futurefieroSend a Private Message to futurefieroDirect Link to This Post
the eco tec seems a strong 4 banger engine.

I just don't know a lot about it...
IP: Logged
JumpStart
Member
Posts: 1412
From: Central Florida
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by goatnipples2002:

Why not just swap in a 3800 NA...so he can get used to that and later add a 3800sc


Programming, building a wiring harness, coustom brackets and mounts, A machined flywheel ect..... all to tear up a 20+ year old tranny, unless I swap that too then im into coustom mounts and axels for that also.

If there was a good late model 4 cylinder swap, I think that would be the way to go and get the best gas miliage possible. Plus if im putting in a late model with lower miles, I wouldnt expect to be swapping it out any time soon.

Steve
IP: Logged
88 Silver Formula
Member
Posts: 857
From: belleville il
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
so he he have his fiero yet? if so im guessing its not a V6? the 3400 from a 96 - up is a great choice, the allumnm oil pan needs to be slightly cut as so the frame so it fits, nothing drastic tho, it will need a complete wireing done/w ecm, i think the eaisest swap out there has got to be the 93 to 95 camaro 3.4, although i personally dont like the camaro 3.4...might as well have a 2.8 IMO...speaking of 2.8??? you could rebuild one of thoes and put it in stock form or spend 300$ on it to have the same HP as a 3.4, with the camaro 3.4 you have to re-drill holes for the starter, its on the wrong side + wireing..What i did was used half 3400 and half fiero 2.8 with dohc 3.4 guts to make my engine, this way all i had to do was swap parts and no re drilling or messing with wireing or ecm., if you want to go that route i can be a 100% guide, only issue is that you have to come up with 4 engines to complete it...i had the 4 on hand so it was very easy for me... you need a new 3400, need a fiero 2.8 and a dohc or TDC 3.4 and injectors from a 93 to 95 camaro 3.4, these are parts nessassary for my build...

fiero intake manifolds


fiero lower intake manifold and fiero distrubutor...wish i had it in the pic above but oh well



fiero or the camaro 3.4 heads (both the same) i used camaro 3.4 heads just because i had a maro 3.4 sitting around aswell as a fiero 2.8 a 3400 and a dohc 3.4


fiero exhaust manifolds



3400 block and timeing chain/+ oil pan and weindage trey



dohc or tdc pistons



3.4 dohc pistons installed in non dohc 3400 block



all gaskets and 5.85'' pushrods needed



17lb injectors needed from the camaro 3.4



you end up with this perdy specimin

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 09-28-2007).]

IP: Logged
JumpStart
Member
Posts: 1412
From: Central Florida
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
Very nice job. Only bad thing is I have none of these parts to start with and no,he doesnt have a car yet but I am still looking.

Steve
IP: Logged
88 Silver Formula
Member
Posts: 857
From: belleville il
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
yeah i understand your boat, i dont know how i ended up with all the right stuff at the right time...my buddy was doing the oppisite build to his 95 camaro, he used the stock 3.4 block and used the new 3400 pistons and heads up, his first project was to put in the 3.4 dohc and it didnt work so thats how we got all these engines, btw his 3400 in the camaro runs very well, mine has more take off but his would scream past mine above 4000 rpms.

so yeah you might want to rebuild the 2.8, true leo has VERY EXPENSIVE!!!!! intake manifolds you can use on it is money isnt an issue....i kinda wish i had a set for my 3400 but 1 grand for a coffe can with pipes welded to it...lol il pass
IP: Logged
Joseph Upson
Member
Posts: 4914
From:
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 88
Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
The 3400 would make a great swap and it should be easier to do than the 3800 and has very good performance right out of the box and good fuel economy to go along with it at the same time.

It should not require a custom front engine mount with one exception "MAYBE", it requires a little notch be placed in the oil pan rail on the "L" shaped eng mount bracket side so that it can swing into place and you can almost use pliers to do that mod though a power tool would be better. The only exception is if you are installing it on a 1988 cradle where the V6 uses a different engine mount bracket and the location of the mount pad on the cradle is different, I'm not sure in which way but you may have to trim it to clear the oil pan, otherwise you'll need to fabricate a dogbone mount, same as for the 3800.

You then need to make sure the flywheel is a neutrally balanced version.

The best wiring approach to take is to use the Fiero harness although you will have to cut and solder the wires since the plug pins are not interchangeable or you can use a 3400 harness and graft it in. If you want to get into tuning then you can use the 730 ecm which has a lot of info available regarding converting the Fiero harness to accept it and then use the 90-92 Beretta 3.1 promm with a larger set of injectors as a start which is a much closer start than the 2.8 ecm and promm running the 3.4 iron head engine for a base start, .3L difference vs. a .6L difference. There are also members available to burn chips for you.

The 3400 will not require a custom flywheel.
GM has an upgraded intake gasket set to address the early design flaw.

I would weigh the benefits and disadvantages, if you go with the iron head 3.4 it will be an even easier swap but you would have to add modifications some costly to bring it back up to its stock performance level once you put the Fiero intake on it. If all you want is a little more grunt on bottom end it would be the easiest and quickest path.

I know there is a big following for the 3800 but when you get right down to it, compared to the 3400 and 3500 engine using the power to weight ratio comparison I just don't believe it's the best way to go anymore and in my opinion the only reason it remains such a big swap is because of the supercharger association and a lot of apprehension about wiring. Both swaps carry the same amount of work or the 3800 a little more unless the front engine mount will drop right into place.

If it's in your budget go with the swap that takes the least effort to install and will give you the best fuel economy, and best performance relative to what you aspire to have.

For a youngster, you probably should just do a good job on a 2.8 rebuild, and for you the 3800 SC or bigger, but I wouldn't recommend the naturally aspirated 3800 over the 3400 or 3500 from what I know about the motors and observed as far as their capabilities on the 60 degree V6 forum. Personally I would go with the non VVT 3500 and spend the ~$200 or less in the 60 degree V6 store necessary to adapt a mechanical throttle body and adjustable crank position sensor to it for use with a 3400 PCM.

Just put it on paper before you make your decision once you get enough opinions from the member regarding the subject. What I will tell you not to do is tackle multiple swaps at the same time like some knuckle head I know on the forum doing a twin turbo, 6 speed, 3900 swap all at once. You wouldn't want to be that guy trust me.
IP: Logged
gladiator
Member
Posts: 241
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gladiatorSend a Private Message to gladiatorDirect Link to This Post
Just curious, what do you gain from using DOHC pistons in the OHV engine? Compression boost? Durability?

Gary
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Joseph Upson
Member
Posts: 4914
From:
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 88
Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
In reference to my above post, I'm pationate about this stuff aren't I. Sorry about that, my mind got away from me.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 09-28-2007).]

IP: Logged
88 Silver Formula
Member
Posts: 857
From: belleville il
Registered: Feb 2007


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
well the dohc pistons being used in the non dohc block were to retain proper compression ratio, if i used the stock 3400 pistons with the iron heads CR would be as low as 7.0:1, the dohc pistons bump it to 9.7:1, the extra valve reliefs in the piston have no help full or hurtfull effects, although thats just a speculation i guess., i also had the block decked .200'; and used the thinner gaskets raising my CR to nearly 11.2:1..in which i am having piston to head issues, so dont go my route..it runs great but is slightly noisey.
IP: Logged
JumpStart
Member
Posts: 1412
From: Central Florida
Registered: Sep 2006


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JumpStartClick Here to Email JumpStartSend a Private Message to JumpStartDirect Link to This Post
Hey Joseph, Thanks for the info. I was the one that bought the 5 speed from you a few weeks back. I am just simply looking for a good simple ( well as simple as possible) swap when I get one for my son. I do want to make sure it is dependable and good MPG. I really dont care about power at this point, that can be something he can work on when he gets older and has more experience.

I hope everything is going well with the 3900 swap.
Thanks again

Steve
IP: Logged
Joseph Upson
Member
Posts: 4914
From:
Registered: Jan 2002


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 88
Rate this member

Report this Post09-28-2007 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JumpStart:

Hey Joseph, Thanks for the info. I was the one that bought the 5 speed from you a few weeks back. I am just simply looking for a good simple ( well as simple as possible) swap when I get one for my son. I do want to make sure it is dependable and good MPG. I really dont care about power at this point, that can be something he can work on when he gets older and has more experience.

I hope everything is going well with the 3900 swap.
Thanks again

Steve


How's it going Steve, in that case a fresh V6 is all you'll need for the youngster because a 3400 is considerably more powerful at 180-190 hp and 200 lb/ft than the 2.8 and would be enough power to get him in a lot of trouble especially if it went into a base 4 cyl car which would be lighter than the stock v6 model.

IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock