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i need help asap! engine light on! by 88 Silver Formula
Started on: 09-12-2007 08:25 PM
Replies: 38
Last post by: buddycraigg on 09-13-2007 11:48 PM
88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
Hi all, my engine light came on..its the first time ive EVER seen it on since i bought the car 3 years ago, even after a engine swap...well anyway its on how do i jump the ALDL and read the code it gave me???
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Key off, paperclip in, key on, SES light flashes code(s). So flash-pause-flash-flash is 12.
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Dodgerunner
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerDirect Link to This Post
Then go to the beginning of the web site and all the codes are listed.

http://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?ECMCodes
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
thanks im on my way....ahhh **** i may not have any tools to get to that damn thing!..as long as there NOT tqx bits holding down the cover.....dammit all my tools are at work.

thanks hudini!
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerDirect Link to This Post
Sorry they are...
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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
OK i got 2 codes code 12 and code 32, im guessing 12 is a default code and 32 is tps?..what are they and why did it come on??? thanks!!

yeah i forced a screwdriver to turn one and i just forced the plastic cover to pivot on the other screw lol...needless to say i need 1 new screw and a screwdriver replaced lol..

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 09-12-2007).]

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Hudini
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Report this Post09-12-2007 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Code 32 is EGR solenoid. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/045528.html

The ECM flashes 12 after any stored codes or if no codes then 12 is the only thing it will flash.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 09-12-2007).]

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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
WOW that looks like fun....like how you CAN NOT buy this part.....love it...SOOO would a bad one cause poor gas millage?...like say 5.5 mpg??

so i have to follow that thread on tearing it apart?
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Hudini
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
First make sure the vacuum hoses are in good shape. A large part of the time it is simply a vacuum leak. Now there is also a way to bypass the solenoid to make the light stay out. That is in the write up. Do you have emissions testing in Kentucky?
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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
no sir i do not.

if i bypassed it...what would it do to driveabuilty, gasmillage, ect...
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
In my experience, disabling the EGR has not hurt or helped the car (3 cars so far). It is simply one less thing to go wrong. The EGR system is supposed to lower combustion temps to reduce NOX emissions. The EGR valve itself is closed at idle and WOT. A leaky EGR valve at idle can cause problems. I don't know if it can cause bad gas mileage. You could always block it off where it connects to the upper intake to see what it does for you.

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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
well i was reading up on that thred, they said that the coolant temp sensor can cause a code 32 also...can you give me a pic on a 2.8 and physically point at the sensor?? theres like 4 of em and id love a pic....sais a 1000 words lol + is there anywhere to buy a new egr solinoid??...also map sensor could cause 32 also..buddycraigg said in that write up that the collant sensor would cause a high idle and bad gasmillage...which i have both.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 09:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Buddycraigg is good, I believe what he writes. Ok, in the 1st pic the sensor is turned around from the way it's in the car. I was trying to show the adapter that goes between the sensor and lower manifold.

This pic shows the sensor installed:

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 09-12-2007).]

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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
that cold start sensor..is that really the sensor for the cold start??? didnt know that...i thought it was another temp sensor...so do all v6's have that adapter? and that is the lower intake manifold correct? + what is the exact name of that sensor so i can do an autozone search for it., hey if my ecm sensor WAS bad it could cause a code 32 i hear AND i also heard it would cause bad gas millage and could cause spark kncok..any of this correct?? if so im on my way to the parts store.

thanks a million man!

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 09-12-2007).]

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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
It could cause bad gas mileage if it is failed full cold, something like -44 degrees F. You can test it though. The 2 pins are extremely small but it is doable with a little patience. You need a multimeter set to ohms.


EDIT: Yes, that is the lower intake and the big round hole is where the thermostat housing sits. Of the 3 manifolds I have worked on (two 2.8 and one 3.4) all had the adapter.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 09-12-2007).]

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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
ok now so i put a volt meter in the ALDL conectors?? the same ones that you bridge for the engine light test? do i do it with the key on? off? running? cold hot?
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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:
also map sensor could cause 32 also..

i dont think a MAP sensor can cause a code 32.

and i'm still trying to get a feel for what your milage was before the code32 happened
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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post

buddycraigg

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quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

ok now so i put a volt meter in the ALDL conectors?? the same ones that you bridge for the engine light test? do i do it with the key on? off? running? cold hot?



no, you are testing resistance between the two pins on the temp sensor.
the resistance should change depending on engine tempature
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Report this Post09-12-2007 10:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
No, you put the ohmmeter leads onto the 2 little metal pins on the sensor itself. See the 2 pins on the sensor to the left in this picture?
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88 Silver Formula
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
i see, ok now with it running? off ? cold? hot? key on/off? im a noob for the simple things lol

ok as far as gas millage goes, ive had the new engine for 5 months now, the first time i took it on the highway after it was broken in i avraged 34mpg on a 100mile round trip, city was 19mpg (im kinda hard on the pedal), then the next trip about a month later i only got 22mpg on the highway, about 16city, another month passed i made the trip again and got 19 hwy 13town, then the last 3 tanks it plumited donn to 5.5 city..i dont know hwy as im not going to do it untill this is fixed....all this and it runs like a top!, i did a compression test i got between 165 and 168 on all 6. fuel test was good and good spark..
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post

88 Silver Formula

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also will a volt meter set to ohms do the trick on the test? if so then il do it tomorrow during lunch. what setting should i use exactly?
i also heard that the ecm sencer and the temp sensor in the head are the same part numbers? true?

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 09-12-2007).]

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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Key off, engine off, engine cold. One way is to grab a thermometer and place it on the car somewhere. Let the car sit overnight until the engine is the same temperature as the outside air temp. Now do the ohmmeter test on the sensor. Compare the resistance value with the chart above to see if it corresponds with the actual air temp on your thermometer. It should be close. The MAT sensor uses the same scale as the CTS so you can check that one too with the same method.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
MAT?? is that the one in the air filter box ?? mines stock and rusted like no other lol...i think there a bit pricey tho that why its still there...but i will replace it if need be.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

also will a volt meter set to ohms do the trick on the test? if so then il do it tomorrow during lunch. what setting should i use exactly?
i also heard that the ecm sencer and the temp sensor in the head are the same part numbers? true?



A multimeter set to ohms.

The ECM Coolant Temp Sensor and the Temp Gauge/Overheat Light Sensor are 2 different animals. The picture above showing the sensors close up shows the difference. The CTS has 2 wires of which one is a ground. The Gauge sensor has 2 separate circuits built in (gauge and overheat light) and uses the head for the ground which is why you don't use RTV on that sensor.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
so if the ambiant air temp tomorrow is about 80*f that the meter should rear about 2,500 ohms if the sensor is working right?
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post

88 Silver Formula

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ok, just read your post, now on the ecm sensor, do the 2 pins have polarity? or does it matter how i touch the probes to them?...ok so the sensors work without power and the wire is just relaying its info to the ecm? i didnt know this
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

MAT?? is that the one in the air filter box ?? mines stock and rusted like no other lol...i think there a bit pricey tho that why its still there...but i will replace it if need be.


All I'm saying is you can test it with the same method so you know whether it is still good. No need to spend money if you do not have to.

The best and easiest way is WINaldl. You need a computer (laptop preferred for portability) and an aldl cable. Then you can just hook up your laptop to the aldl connector and see exactly what the CTS and MAT and several other sensors are reading. If you do not have a fuel leak causing your low mileage, I would highly recommend it. You can check O2 sensor counts as well as your long and short term fuel trims.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerDirect Link to This Post
If you don't want to guess at values inbetween on the small table here is a fuller one.

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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:

ok, just read your post, now on the ecm sensor, do the 2 pins have polarity? or does it matter how i touch the probes to them?...ok so the sensors work without power and the wire is just relaying its info to the ecm? i didnt know this


The sensor is just a resistor that changes resistance based on temp. In order to know what the resistance should be, you must know the actual temp. If your engine is still warm, it won't work. That is why you do it after the car has sat until completely cold and have a thermometer close by. Now you know for certain the temp. It does not matter which way you have the probes as you are only measuring resistance. The hard part is actually touching the small probes correctly. They are pretty small.
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
Y thank you dodgerunner, il print that out....like how some numbers arent the same between the 2 tables lol...o well there close., so yeah il test that tomorrow and tell how it went, also going to do a leak down test and a vacume test for leaks., did thoes MPG estimates help you understand whats going on Dodgerunner?
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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post

88 Silver Formula

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well i was planning on (i work at a delarship as a mechanic (parts changer) i was going to pull the car from my parking spot into my bay to do these tests, it would only run for a second or so..but id hate to interfeer with the temp so il do the tests out side...hopefully the sun wont mess with the thermastat readings...you know im hoping to get a 100,700 ohm reading...it would explane everything.

thanks all! its bed time il be back tommorow after work to finish our work here.

[This message has been edited by 88 Silver Formula (edited 09-12-2007).]

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Report this Post09-12-2007 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
The tables match but the columns are reversed. The one I posted from the FSM has F on the left and C in the middle, where Dodgerunner's (very nice) table has C on the left and F in the middle.
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Report this Post09-13-2007 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DodgerunnerClick Here to visit Dodgerunner's HomePageClick Here to Email DodgerunnerSend a Private Message to DodgerunnerDirect Link to This Post
I would think if your mileage was really 5.5mpg then your exhaust should really smell rich. Either that or you have a very good Cat.... If you stand behind the car and rev the engine should really be able to smell it.....

You sure you don't have a leak somewhere.
Maybe in the fill tube.
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Report this Post09-13-2007 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
nope no leaks, when i replaced my fuel pump about 3 weeks ago i also replace all of the hoses, none were leaking but replaced them anyway, and the mpg is the same before and after, if you stand behind the car and rev it, it just smells like any other car, nothing really different, acually the mechanic that put it together made a comment that it smelled cleaner than what he expected it would, he thought that the 17;b injectors would be over kill so he inspected things to make sure they wernt.,

well im on my lunch break, i just ran a leak down test, i got a max of 36psi (gauge may be off) and it stayed there for about 35 mins then i noticed that it dropped off about 5 psi withen the next few minits so i disconected it, i ran the OHM test on the temp sensor, i keept getting 1.7, the thermooter i set on the middle intake all morning was reading 89*F so if that 1.7 was 1700 then it would be acurate i guess...but i dont know if that 1.7 was a reading or if the sencor wasnt really putting off a reading at all...i dont know, but while i was at all of this guess what i found....oh yeah bigger than **** a vac line comming off the back of the solinoid was broken off lol..i fixxed it, i also noticed that none of thoes lines pull vacume with the eng running..is that normal? but this still doesnt explane the 5.5 mpg..acually i filled up this morning and i acually got 6 mpg woo hoo!!!.....could i really be driving it that hard???? hmmm... well off to work i go. be back in 4 hours.
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Report this Post09-13-2007 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88 Silver Formula:
i also noticed that none of thoes lines pull vacume with the eng running..is that normal?


there is no vacuum going to the solenoid at idle.
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Report this Post09-13-2007 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post

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quote
Originally posted by Dodgerunner:
Either that or you have a very good Cat.....


or a bright red one
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Report this Post09-13-2007 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.PBodyClick Here to visit Mr.PBody's HomePageClick Here to Email Mr.PBodySend a Private Message to Mr.PBodyDirect Link to This Post
You change your O2? Are your headers glowing? they should glow if the engine is going full rich.
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Report this Post09-13-2007 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88 Silver FormulaClick Here to Email 88 Silver FormulaSend a Private Message to 88 Silver FormulaDirect Link to This Post
well unfortunatly i have them wrapped. (cant see em)...blaa..you can acually grab (no kidding around) the logs after a long hard (no pun intended) drive...i know the wraps absorb heat..but not by that much im sure..so the fact that grabbing the logs wont burn you im guessing that they arent glowing, that pic is my heads/logs.

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Report this Post09-13-2007 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for buddycraiggClick Here to Email buddycraiggSend a Private Message to buddycraiggDirect Link to This Post
well i have no idea.
but here's a free bump.
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